You must log in or register to comment.

barrinmw t1_j2sz8ja wrote

Over and under on him trying to claim the other two who already plead guilty are the ones who were really behind it all and he had no part in the fraud at all?


IWankToTits t1_j2szoux wrote

I bet in a year he will be fined a few hundred grand and told not to do it again.


FitLaw4 t1_j2t44bb wrote

Martin Shrkeli or whatever his name is has a YouTube video up going over sam's charges and using the fraud sheet that determines how much time you will get. He said it's the exact same one they gave him when he was convicted. If this guy is found guilty I dont think it's possible he will get less than 25 years just based on the amount of money that was stolen. Not even considering the other charges.


HappyFamily0131 t1_j2t4g95 wrote

Despite the state of our justice system, I think you would lose that bet. Being clueless about the whole thing has been his defense from the start, and that has historically been a winning defense for fraudsters everywhere, but a key component of the success of that defense that is that the defendant not actually be a moron.

By all accounts, SBF hid his actions, and his criminal intent, very, very poorly. He may yet succeed in convincing the general public that he's not a bad guy. But as for convincing a judge or jury that this was all just a crazy mistake, no, I don't think I would bet on that.


candafilm t1_j2t5h5n wrote

That's essentially his defense. In every interview he's done since the FTX collapse, he pushed all the blame onto Alameda Research and claiming it was a totally separate entity and he had no idea what was going on there. It doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny, but that's the story he's sticking to.


PEVEI t1_j2t5w71 wrote

He doesn’t really have grounds to push for a favorable deal, his co-conspirators already snapped them up. At this point he just has to plead not-guilty and hope that he can somehow undermine the government’s case.

He won’t be able to, but that’s his tuft of grass on the cliff side, the last thing he can grasp


inksmudgedhands t1_j2t6vdl wrote

He burned some major investors and he has now zero connections to anyone rich and powerful with any political strings to pull. The government would love to make an example on how they don't let the "1%" get away with everything like how everyone knows they do.

He is the perfect scapegoat. The guy doesn't have a prayer.


TheGrandExquisitor t1_j2tce9t wrote

Especially since he has two parents who are law profs. Even my ass knows not to confess to crimes in public before even being charged.

Also, I wonder what his parents' liability is. He had a bunch of assets in their name.


PEVEI t1_j2tcpuh wrote

I wouldn’t even try to guess, but I’d hate to be in their shoes right now. I think if the money ultimately came from fraud then the disgorgement process will include the parents’ assets at the very least.


guruwiso t1_j2tgxxg wrote

While I saw Skreli's video and it had decent info in it regarding what SBF may face in this journey of his, I would warn everyone to be cautious of anything this guy says...Even his opinions on this trial.

He hasn't been out of prison a year and is already being accused of being involved in a shady crypto rug pull. He's also trying to push some software that he claims will harness computing power to solve drug discovery problems. However, this software looks really shady and I wouldn't be surprised if it's not some other crypto scheme he has planned behind the scenes.

Anyway, just a friendly word of caution. Some of the biggest snakes in the world come off as smart and friendly. It doesn't make them good people or make what they have to say any more valuable than the next guy.


Tozu1 t1_j2thfgu wrote

He’d get life anyway if he pled guilty I’m guessing?


FitLaw4 t1_j2thtkr wrote

While I agree I wouldnt trust him with my money or his opinions on what to invest in I would say his opinion on this is more concrete imo. He pulled up the fraud charge sheet on his screen so you could see the point system and everything for yourself as he's talking about it.


[deleted] t1_j2tkdaw wrote

Regardless, His name is forever tainted and he will never work in the industry aga, nor find anyone to work with him. He's the guy that lost billions for everyone including rich people. And he wasn't even smart about it. Unlike people like belfort or madoff that had some semblance of what to do, it's already but that at no point did the company even know how much money they had at any given time.

Sams life is going to suck for him. He may be well off than 98/99% of americans, but this was the wunderkind, the guy on time magazine, the guy with a stadium built for him, celebrity endorsements, expensive vacations and taste, the envy of all people globally. Everybody at one point wished they could have been smart like him and his friends.

But that's all gone now, his friends ratted him out, his billions gone and his incompetency is on display. Nobody wishes to be him anymore.

Sam is going to never again see that view or that world again and spend the rest of his life wishing for it back and never getting it.


IWankToTits t1_j2tklvz wrote

I mean I hope so but Im not sure I believe it.

There is an equally good chance he will get away with a good chunk of illicitly gained money, get a slap on the wrist and spend the rest of his life in luxury.


guruwiso t1_j2tntmx wrote

I think we're both in agreement here. I just wanted to throw out that PSA because I've seen way too many posts talking about how great Skreli is and how he's a reformed man now that he's out of jail. I guess some people just gravitate to bad role models.


Aazadan t1_j2toizl wrote

Yes and no. They had terms of service regarding using depositors funds. Financial regulations or not, that was theft, and they've already admitted to it, in addition to the corporate fraud.

SBF is in a lot of trouble, regulations are just an additional set of laws for an industry to adhere to, not the only laws.


[deleted] t1_j2tpjxy wrote

Madoff got sent to prison.

Madoff also got the shit beat out of him in prison

Even then, the madoff family fell to complete ruins after the exposure.

PLenty of people get away with a slap on the wrist and it could happen here. BUt at the scale this happened and him trying to get as many hands in as many pies as possible with evidence to show for it, I have my doubts he'll be getting an easy life.

And like I said in my post, it may be a life of luxury of how we think it to be, but he isn't ever going to have the bezos life of luxury that he got a taste of and never will again.


LadyFoxfire t1_j2ttbqt wrote

No. He’s looking at about 25 years if he goes to trial and loses, which at his age isn’t a life sentence, especially with good behavior and parole. A plea deal is by definition going to be less than that.

Pleading not guilty in the first hearing is common sense. In a couple of weeks the prosecutor will offer him a deal, and he’ll either change his plea or take his chances at trial. This is all very routine.


Potential-Double7210 t1_j2ttygp wrote

It is highly speculated that when FTX was going down and a bank run on the company seemed to be in it's infancy, they gave what money they still had to their most important/wealthy investors first, although SBF characterizes this as FTX having given back requested withdrawals on a "first come, first serve" basis.


ButterPotatoHead t1_j2txzwp wrote

Well... confess? To felonies? He gave some details about what he did and didn't do, tried to distance himself from Alameda Research. He admitted that mistakes were made and that they didn't have good risk controls. But I wouldn't call anything that he said a confession.

Many of the charges he faces like fraud require intent, which means he said something that he knew was false or deliberately and intentionally misled someone. He certainly didn't say anything like that and this can be hard to prove.


ButterPotatoHead t1_j2tynqs wrote

I think one of the core issues is that there were two companies, Alameda Research and FTX. SBF ran the first one for a while, then supposedly stepped down, his co-conspirators started to run it, and then he ran FTX.

Alameda had what sounds like unlimited access to FTX funds and used them to make investments, fund loans and shore up losses. This is the source of many of the serious charges.

SBF is clearly trying to distance himself from Alameda and will probably try to blame malfeasance on the co-conspirators that ran it. Meanwhile they have already pled guilty and said they did things that they knew were wrong and SBF told them to do it. So I'm guessing that will be one of the main focuses of the lawsuits, if not the only one.


ButterPotatoHead t1_j2u0nxd wrote

Well, whether or not he knew about it or used it will definitely be asked.

For a fraud conviction though they would have to show intent, like he said that he did not know about it but then used it, or something like that. And it would have to affect customers or investors.


LordOfTheTennisDance t1_j2u56ot wrote

Should we take a moment of silence for his defense team? Because they have one heck of a job ahead of them just to keep his prison sentence under 10 years.


ECK-2188 t1_j2u6phr wrote

Guess borrowing $250 million of others people’s money from another sister dummy company is considered “not guilty”.


OldmanJenkins02 t1_j2ubykg wrote

I don’t think it’ll be this weak of a verdict, however, my concern is we see something like 3 years in a minimum security prison and fined like 1MIL or something like that. I have a feeling it’s going to be an incredibly frustrating sentence and he’ll be back at it with some type of crypto or “online class” scam in no time


Send-More-Coffee t1_j2ucd1q wrote

Yeah, but he's no longer able to donate to politicians. Politicians are kind of big on "What can you do for me?" types of exchanges. (Note: Good politicians are using this to score investment for their constituents, whereas bad politicians for themselves. Ugly politicians don't play this game and shit all over everything. Case in point: today's House of Representatives.)


Macalacka t1_j2ucgdd wrote

So who are the two who shall not be named that bailed this sack of shit out?


postitnote t1_j2uolq3 wrote

You don't plead guilty at this point, even if you intend to plead guilty later. It is completely expected that he would plead not guilty. He can still negotiate a plead deal.

From what I can see, it really depends on what evidence they have that demonstrate his state of mind for intent to defraud investors and customers, especially when it comes to directing Caroline and Gary to commit the fraud they have already plead guilty to. It's not entirely out of the question that Caroline and Gary were working together and lying to Sam to hide their trading losses as a result of degen gambling. But I'm going to let the evidence tell us what happened.


notaredditer13 t1_j2upm3d wrote

Guess they didn't offer him a deal he wanted to accept.


PezRystar t1_j2uppbc wrote

Holy shit, I had already forgotten about this asshole. The last 3 years have been the longest decade of my life.


notaredditer13 t1_j2utyw5 wrote

>PLenty of people get away with a slap on the wrist and it could happen here.

A lot of people believe this, but it isn't really true. People just don't recognize crimes when they see them or rather think that being rich or greedy is in and of itself a crime. It isn't.


TheWingus t1_j2uuxnr wrote

Oh my god that interview where he explained his business plan as;

“people will see all this money in the box, and more some will want to put money in the box”

So how is that not a scam?

“Maybe YOU see it as a scam…”


Or something like that. The dude straight called him out saying, you’re providing nothing to your investors. The growth of your investors investments is predicated on more investors investing more!! And him just saying I disagree was incredible. I made some wrong financial moves in my life, but never something like that


ButterPotatoHead t1_j2wk9g7 wrote

SBF said he stepped down as CEO of Alameda two years ago and turned it over to the two people that are now his co-conspirators. I am sure this is his attempt to demonstrate distance between Alameda and FTX.

What are these "hundreds" of business entities? The press has mentioned 4 or 5.

I think the core issue is that the way that money was accounted for at FTX was a custom-written accounting system that they wrote, which didn't have nearly the necessary controls to keep track of different kinds of account or commingling of funds etc. Also it has been revealed that Alameda specifically had special treatment within the accounting system to have basically complete access to all assets in FTX which it used for all kinds of purposes.

But SBF will say that is Alameda's problem which he no longer runs. The co-conspirators will say that SBF orchestrated the whole thing. We'll see how that shakes out in court.


pomaj46808 t1_j2x61u6 wrote

It'll all comes down to whether or not they can convince jurors that he got in over his head about stuff he didn't understand and things fell apart because his friends took advantage of that fact.

The prosecution needs to get the jury to understand crypto finance enough to understand what actions Sam took constituted intentional fraud, and also convince a jury that the people testifying against him aren't just trying to save their own asses via plea deals.

The defense just needs to say, "I don't understand this stuff, you don't understand this stuff, and he didn't understand this stuff. He thought he did, and that led to him making major mistakes in clearly risky areas of finance. The people saying otherwise have every reason to lie."

They don't even need to flip the jury, just make that seem likely enough to get a better deal from the prosecution.


squidking78 t1_j2xom9s wrote

Man steals billions and still too cheap to get decent haircut.


LordOfTheTennisDance t1_j2y56ca wrote

The "I don't understand" defense is not a defense and will fall flat. Can you imagine if someone shot a person and then claimed that they didn't understand how to use a gun and so they accidentally killed a person and then proceeded to accidentally cover up the "accident"?

I think if they go down this route it will be a very quick guilty verdict. Stupidity is not a defense, but I agree with you that it's most likely their only option.


kandoras t1_j2yfnnj wrote

You don't need to understand crypto to be able to follow what he did.

He created two companies; FTX was a ponzi scheme and Alemeda siphoned the money people invested in FTX into their own accounts. Then, eventually and like happens with all ponzi schemes, the house of cards fell apart.

It's not really any more complicated than that.


pomaj46808 t1_j2yoxar wrote

>You don't need to understand crypto to be able to follow what he did.

No, not if the prosecutors guide the jury and tell their story well.

The prosecution will argue their side and the defense will poke holes and argue alternative narratives. One of which will likely be comparable to what he's been claiming in interviews.

The defense doesn't need to confuse the jury on what happened so much as convince them Sam was confused and arrogant but not acting criminally.


pomaj46808 t1_j2ypwm2 wrote

>Can you imagine if someone shot a person and then claimed that they didn't understand how to use a gun and so they accidentally killed a person and then proceeded to accidentally cover up the "accident"?

First, it depends on what they're charged with. Because if they're being charged with murder, they can absolutely argue they didn't understand how to use a gun. Generally, when charged with murder they need to prove you intended to kill. If I fire a gun at you and just meant to scare you but happened to nail you between the eyes, then in many if not most states, it's not murder.

Depending on the charges "mens rea" can be the difference between jail for life and time served with a fine.


ButterPotatoHead t1_j2yt93l wrote

Look you don't have to convince me. I think he's a liar that committed fraud and will go to jail. I'm just telling you what his defense is. Whether or not it legally holds water is up for him and his lawyers to decide.

All of these people were probably cohabitating and sleeping with one another and hanging out, so the idea that there was some kind of arm's length separation between a guy and his girlfriend who were CEO's of two related companies is kind of laughable. But we'll see.


Projectrage t1_j3lv14j wrote

FTX was one of the largest donors to the Biden election campaign…but somehow this is never mentioned.

This looks like this was money laundering donor money, and worse ….money laundering funnel from foreign adversaries.

This is unfortunately already presidential.


Projectrage t1_j3lvlf4 wrote

He was also the largest donor to the Biden presidential campaign. What he did was a ponzi and potentially funneled money from foreign governments to the presidential campaign.

We need more oversight to get money out of politics.