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Isocratia t1_j2z55zv wrote

The proper response to swastikas is the three arrows.

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JubeltheBear t1_j2zd1x4 wrote

3 arrows? What’s that mean?

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Isocratia t1_j2zdng9 wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows

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The_Barnanator t1_j30aera wrote

Gotta say, I've always found it weird to include ML as the third arrow

−28

Bovolt t1_j30nlkm wrote

Try a history book.

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officialbigrob t1_j30qu8e wrote

You mean the history books where all of the most committed anticommunists are a bunch of racist fascist nationalists?

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malphonso t1_j30tg8h wrote

Yes, but communists are welcome in Iron Front groups, just not authoritarian communists.

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Perpetual_Doubt t1_j336qlm wrote

You mean socialists so

Edit: point out a non-authoritarian Communist. I'll wait

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Bovolt t1_j30rueb wrote

The practical applications of Marxism-Leninism, and the political ideologies branched from it, have directly resulted in millions of deaths in the last eighty five years.

It's okay to be against two major, failed, murderous political ideologies at the same time.

Really. You don't have to pick a side.

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Kenny__Loggins t1_j3130zt wrote

It's always weird when people get out the calculator for ML deaths but then when capitalism has people dying from lack insulin and wars for oil, that's just the way things be

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HammerTimeHTFU t1_j313nma wrote

I think the idea is that many people oppose capitalism and also oppose authoritarianism in any/all forms.

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Krunch007 t1_j31ej45 wrote

That's a bit of an oversimplification of capitalism's failings. And there's nothing wrong with keeping in mind how to NOT design the next socialist system.

I'm not saying it's a good faith critique of ML, it's not used as such. I agree with you that capitalism killed a lot of people too. However, I see no point in defending ML at all. Whatever good emerged from it could have emerged without all those deaths if Lenin, Mao and Stalin weren't such massive cunts. If it was democratic. Really, there's no point in mounting a defense of that failure.

−8

CatDog1337 t1_j31h4n4 wrote

Saying that capitalism also killed people does not defend communism.

Also pointing out that people let other people die/suffer because they want to make more money sounds like a pretty good description of capitalisms failings.

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Kenny__Loggins t1_j328qmr wrote

If the argument is "communism bad because people died" and the alternative is a system that also leads to people dying, then it is a defense against the notion that the current system must be maintained.

Now, if there are other systems that are even better, great. But usually when people trot out the "communism killed 27 kajillion people" argument, they are using it to argue that capitalism is better.

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Krunch007 t1_j32hufo wrote

You agree context matters I assume? In the context of addressing deaths caused by ML, saying capitalism causes deaths too sounds very much like an intended defense.

That being said, every political system ever has caused deaths, whether intentionately or not, so it's a moot point anyway. I hate arguing it. It's much more relevant to just say capitalism's falling is actually the intentional fueling of inequality through false meritocratic rhetoric, which results in death and suffering due to not affording vital necessities, class tensions which result in a more divided society, stifling human progress by focusing on what's more profitable instead of what's better for people as a whole, so on and so forth.

So no, I do think it's an oversimplification that doesn't even touch the problem, since it's a trait it shares with all past political systems, and perhaps with future ones as well.

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Kenny__Loggins t1_j329hva wrote

Sure. I think the main issue here is that there will probably never be an accurate accounting of the effects of any system, especially communist ones when empirical powers are extremely capitalist. For example, historians don't even agree that the holodomor was intentional, but most people assume it was and count that as a black mark against the USSR.

And that's without even mentioning that communism has never been given a proper chance because of the fact that capitalists have a vested interest in knocking it's legs out from underneath it at every step. So even the most accurate analysis of a communist country would not allow us to really compare the results of a capitalist world with a communist one.

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Krunch007 t1_j31fcrv wrote

I think people who are on the left reflexively feel like they have to defend ML just because it's exactly what some will try to clobber them over the head with in arguments. "But so many deaths caused by soshalism!!!1!"

Yeah, but like, you know... It's not the system communists today(aside from tankies) and socialists want to implement. A democratic socialist system should look nothing like any of the ML states, and nobody should feel compelled to defend those failures at all. It's not socialist policies that killed millions, it's cunt dictators and their bootlickers who never should have been running countries in the first place.

But people don't really make that distinction easy.

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NoUseForAName2222 t1_j312p6t wrote

Oh c'mon.

You're not going to see that in a US history book.

You gotta wait until you're mid 20s when you pick up books from Howard Zinn.

Damn, this really got down voted? Lol. Galatians 4:16, man.

−7

WillyBlunts t1_j2zlrca wrote

Given the history of Adidas and Puma this must be relevant to Adidas 3 stripes?

−41

seanbrockest t1_j2zg2p5 wrote

Remember the "Thanks Obama" meme?

Remember when Trump refused to rebuke white supremacists?

This meme is a lot darker....

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xfd696969 t1_j30jl5w wrote

I told my friend how we used to have Obabo and that was enough. Look at what we're dealing with now. It's crazy how the world felt so calm back then, but I suppose these issues have been brewing for decades at this point and finally boiled over.

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lives_in_van t1_j30f2kz wrote

Why is this happening? I really don’t understand the cross-section between the anti semite crazies and the pro Israel crazies, but apparently they overlap a lot. Always extreme right-wing on both.

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jessie_monster t1_j30lelg wrote

Because it brings upon the the rapture, apparently.

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ecafsub t1_j31vtfe wrote

> Doom to those who desire the day of the Lord!

> Why do you want the day of the Lord?

> It is darkness, not light;     

> as if someone fled from a lion,

> and was met by a bear;

> or sought refuge in a house, rested a hand against the wall,

> and was bitten by a snake.

> Isn’t the day of the Lord darkness, not light;

> all dark with no brightness in it?

Amos 5:18-20

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Jampine t1_j30uzzf wrote

They hate jews, but apparently some part of the bible says that one of the requirements for the end of the world, and them all getting vacuumed up to heaven, is a temple being built in Jerusalem, so they'll support Israel to try and get that done.

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TechyDad t1_j31j976 wrote

The second requirement is a huge attack on Israel so while they'll "support" Israel, they'll also sabotage any peace process and will encourage things like that settlers that cause more violence.

Also, they think that Jesus will return after the attack, take them all to heaven, and toss all us Jews into hell. This means that their "support for Israel" is really just delayed antisemitism. "If we act nice towards Israel for a bit then Jesus will doom all the Jews for us."

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gardener-of-weeden t1_j335x0d wrote

If Jesus came back... he would be sooo fcking pissed.

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TechyDad t1_j33cyek wrote

I'm Jewish so I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to Jesus. From what I know, though, the Biblical Jesus would be hanging out with people like Bernie Sanders and would only enter the evangelicals' churches to flip over some tables.

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OutLiving t1_j315bg8 wrote

Also Israel beats up Muslims, which triggers the reptile side of the conservative brain

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Factsaretheonlytruth t1_j2zooa0 wrote

Jews seem to be safer in Germany than the US today.

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MaracujaBarracuda t1_j2zpkf8 wrote

The far right is rising in Germany too now.

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johndoe30x1 t1_j2zxlfx wrote

Don’t worry, the German government is…oh they’re funding undercover cops who are all actually double agents who agree with the neo-Nazis more than the Bundespolizei? Oops

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atlantis_airlines t1_j2zwuiu wrote

What is particularly telling is that arguably the safest place for Jews in the early 20th century was Germany. At that time Jews held many respectable positions with some becoming household names not just at home but abroad. This didn't mean antisemitism didn't exist, but Germany was far more accepting of Jews than other countries were....until they weren't.

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Xenjael t1_j30k3gi wrote

It's why most of us with fam that survived the holocaust are taught to have back up plans, and to be aware our neighbors and friends can always turn on us in an instant.

I'm in Israel now. The peace of mind is great.

Cause truth is Americans are the same. When I worked at Panera I was pushed in an oven by one of the bakers as a 'joke' and their management then fired me.

Total shitshow back in the states.

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WildYams t1_j30srqi wrote

There was a fantastic documentary released by Ken Burns a few months ago that everyone should watch called The US and the Holocaust which very much gives context to how Americans were reacting to what was happening to the Jews in Nazi Germany and how reluctant (or even loathe) most Americans were to help or even listen to what was going on. It also talks a lot about the large amount of Nazi sympathy in America at the time.

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CedarWolf t1_j30sne1 wrote

> have back up plans

I've always been fascinated by the ways people hid and modified their homes to hide stuff, either their families' possessions or their family members themselves.

But considering actually adding such hideaways onto my actual home feels insane. And what am I going to keep in there? Pokemon cards?

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phrostbyt t1_j31nrbn wrote

passport, social security card, birth certificate, handgun, ammo, and a letter from your Rabbi

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doubleshortbreve t1_j32mnhd wrote

Some kind of formal certificate signed by a rabbi showing participation in a lifecycle event is great to have as well. If you are a Jew by choice or have one in your fam, be sure your conversion certificate is signed by at least one rabbi who has had conversions accepted in Israel, although they are finally getting better about this. Also the kids! Bnai Mitzvah certs, brit milah/brit bat certificates, whatever is available to you. Keep in one place that you can stick in a suitcase fast. Hard copies of all of your prescriptions, and backup supply. If you can? Burner phone. - with love to my fam from your internet bubbie

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Tersphinct t1_j32hxhr wrote

I don’t get it. Why were you fired if you were the one who got pushed?

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Xenjael t1_j35voxg wrote

The longer story is I complained. I was then transfered to a nearby location.

A shift manager there ended up being palestinian sympathetic, and would question me about the legitimacy of the holocaust having happened when he found out why I transferred.

Eventually I threw a basket of pagers at him, and that was it. They gave me a hearing, fired me under their no jerks policy, and rest is history.

I did ask my grandfather who survived aushwitz what I should do and he advised to there wasn't a right thing for me to do in response.

I suppose I could have sued, looking back.

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rjkardo t1_j30dvlh wrote

This is the sort of true/scary history that should be taught.

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xfd696969 t1_j30jmwu wrote

Yep, glad I'm in Israel now. People can say whatever they want to say, but I don't need to worry about keeping my ethnicity a secret because people doing shit like this.

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IamToddDebeikis t1_j30sdsz wrote

I thought about moving to Israel because I desperately want to get out of the US but it seems very expensive. I also am not a fan of how rude Israelis are.

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xfd696969 t1_j30vhmi wrote

We aren't rude, motherfucker!

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Tersphinct t1_j32ia8c wrote

Last time I went, I had an asshole try to skip the line where you get your passport stamped coming into the country. I wasn’t even in Israel proper, and I already had to deal with a jackass after 30 hours of traveling. I just about lost my shit.

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tippytep t1_j31dqhf wrote

If you had family that escaped an EU country during WW2, you could look into obtaining citizenship from that country. It takes some research and paperwork but I was granted Austrian citizenship but could now live in an EU country.

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seanhoran t1_j304rnw wrote

It was the same pre ww2.. America was fascist af.. Hitler built operations around Henry Ford methods .

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Kataphractoi t1_j30jm0l wrote

Also sent observers to study American methods of eugenics.

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auderita t1_j31bf5o wrote

Also studied America's blueprints for concentration camps (Japanese internment, First People reservations, etc.)

−8

PointlessGiant t1_j32d0pc wrote

Dude, Japanese internment camps did not predate Nazi death camps. How would they have based theirs off of things that hadn't happened yet?

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WanderingPickles t1_j2zy73f wrote

Umm, guys, cool it with the anti semitism… Putin might try to invade claiming that we’re all Nazis.

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jdmgto t1_j31mblq wrote

Don't do that, don't give me hope.

−54

OneofLittleHarmony t1_j308d02 wrote

As a Jew, I find the paywall frustrating. I think any non-Jew would feel the same.

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croooooooozer t1_j30gjk3 wrote

I hate paywalls. I'm not a jew, but I am dutch soooo

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OneofLittleHarmony t1_j30h3gl wrote

My grandmother was dutch! Maybe that is why.

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CedarWolf t1_j30y1a1 wrote

Of course. The only walls the Dutch like are dikes. The seawalls keep the sea out and the fields dry.

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donfind t1_j31jubs wrote

Telling a family secret? We can't afford to lose no horses lols

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squidking78 t1_j314rjx wrote

As a non Jew I appreciate you not calling us that other word!

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[deleted] t1_j2zkoim wrote

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[deleted] t1_j2ztzur wrote

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[deleted] t1_j2zq2ao wrote

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[deleted] t1_j2zz6wq wrote

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[deleted] t1_j2zqgic wrote

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[deleted] t1_j2zra52 wrote

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Xenjael t1_j30ju3r wrote

To any American jews, European, and other who feel the above pressure, you always have a home in Israel.

I'm from the USA, VA, DC... the antisemitic pressure is real. If you get tired come make aaliyah as you can also always go back to the USA later.

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squidking78 t1_j314kzr wrote

Trying to be an ethnostate on purpose is not cool. How about you take members of any genocide. ( of which there are many now )

−12

Xenjael t1_j31dryx wrote

Because there are folk like you who exist and wish evil on us.

If you hold such views, open your home to them. We already do the international community.

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squidking78 t1_j341xdu wrote

I wish “evil” on pretty much no one. I simply prefer nations that don’t promote ethno-nationalism. And give full rights to all who live within their borders.

And no, you don’t. How many refugees does Israel take again? ( excluding the ones of “correct” ethnicity for you )

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Xenjael t1_j35vxwq wrote

We took in 15k Ukrainians in the last year.

You really need to read up on things. We aren't a monolith of a people. And our citizens come from literally every country on earth, and we have found many ways to argue for them to stay where we can.

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squidking78 t1_j37xtfc wrote

Wrong answer. They all had Jewish roots. Now do “people” like every other compassionate nation on earth, where ethnicity ( having at least one grandparent of a race/ethnicity ) matters.

You realize people can have an issue with all forms of racism, and that includes Israel as an issue, just as much as those idiots who hate Jews for all their idiotic conspiracist garbage ideas.

Being ethically consistent is being honest.

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Xenjael t1_j381p6w wrote

It is honest to say anyone is welcome if jewish. No one is stopping you from converting to take advantage of the system in place. Many people have.

And like I've said elsewhere, I have neighbors who are bedouin, druze, native Arab and palestinian.

If they are facing racism, it is a favorable kind, as they are fellow citizens, but are able to live on state funding while avoiding military service.

Top that off with their own sharia court system they can take their issues to- again, you may want to read up on the situation.

There are very few kinds of folk prohibited here. You just merely have to not want to kill your fellow countrymen.

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squidking78 t1_j38axl0 wrote

Ok, you can come to amarica, but you have to be “Christian” or convert.

They would be a disgrace.

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nygaff t1_j352wak wrote

Why does a county smaller than New Jersey need to take people from ANY genocide? The US doesn't even come close to doing that. It is an absurd standard for you to be having.

−2

squidking78 t1_j353idr wrote

Because, it’s a thing Israel make a point about, to validate their quest for an ethnostate. Any other nation on earth with such a stated goal would be considered racist or bigoted, to western eyes.

Size has nothing to do with if a nation is compassionate or not.

You actually think only “big” countries should take refugees? Sweden, Australia, NZ, places like that, put their money where their mouth is. Even modern Germany.

The US does indeed take many refugees. It does not have an ethnocentric “right of return”.

5

Sidewinder702 t1_j3auk26 wrote

Well so many western countries and Allies are ethnostates. Look at Japan they barely allow any immigration at all even though their population is decreasing and their workforce is shrinking. It’s the same with pretty much the same with all of America’s Allies in Asia. Poland and Hungary are EU states and although they let in lots of refugees from Ukraine they refused to let in Syrians, Africans or basically any refugees that weren’t white.

1

squidking78 t1_j3dibof wrote

… none of the nations you cite are traditional western countries. Western values have issues with them as well. I take a dim view of autocrats or nations who think their emperor is god too, historically. None of that is healthy.

But we’re talking about Israel.

1

Sidewinder702 t1_j3ro5bz wrote

Well I’m just pointing out Israel isn’t that unique when it comes to that. There are a lot of ethnostates in the world, and despite what values the western world preaches it still Allies itself with many of them .

2

squidking78 t1_j3ruknh wrote

They’re entirely different to Israel anyway, with Israel being a nation of immigrants. The only immigrant based ethnostate in the world. At least the other nations you cite just exist there because the people via being there are “a nation of blood”. As xenophobic as they may be currently.

Only the West has nations based on ideas rather than “blood”. And Israel isn’t one of them. That needs to change.

1

Sidewinder702 t1_j40pdo9 wrote

Actually that’s not entirely true. Israel allows Jewish converts of any ethnicity as far as I understand. Also I know a lot of the countries I referred to like Poland and Vietnam allow people with those ethnicities to come and live there and get citizenship easily. Which isn’t true for other people.

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squidking78 t1_j42im3o wrote

The only prerequisites that modern, less bigoted states have on immigrating is skill, familial connection and humanitarian need.

Not ethnicity, religion or race.

When you look at the nation without the marketed special status by the Israel lobby, the west would not support such bigoted ways by a country that ever deemed itself as part of their grouping.

Be a nation, not an enclave. Demographics are against it anyway, so make it an idea, not a racial identity.

1

Sidewinder702 t1_j45x2ek wrote

Don’t forget about money. In many western countries you can basically buy citizenship by investing a lot of money so it’s not all altruistic. Also it isn’t just the Israeli lobby that makes the US favor Isreal. The US likes having an ally in the Middle East that will do what it wants. It’s the same with Saudi Arabia but even more so with Israel.

1

[deleted] t1_j2zhwom wrote

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Toadrage_ t1_j322hjj wrote

So that’s where Kanye went

4

alien_from_Europa t1_j34ceab wrote

After violent threats were made to our temple, my mom took the mezuzah off the front entrance as a caution. Something she felt necessary after the mapping project came to light.

3

SeaworthinessEast999 t1_j32pwon wrote

Wait till the family finds the same thing above police departments in the future, instead of shields obviously

−3

[deleted] t1_j31b6d9 wrote

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−7

TechyDad t1_j31khwd wrote

Antisemitism has been on the rise. There have always been way too many antisemites. (Goodness knows I've dealt with way too many over the years.) What's changed is that the more radical antisemites feel empowered now. Instead of trying to hide their views, they feel comfortable screaming their views from the rooftops.

5

l32uigs t1_j2ztztn wrote

i haven't really been paying attention but is the antisemitism because of kanye or because of Israel/Palestine?

−24

SpindriftRascal t1_j2zxwdq wrote

Those are symptoms, not causes. It happens always, waxing and waning throughout the world over the past several thousand years.

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Trompwnist t1_j329zki wrote

Ever since the Bar Kokhba revolt ended in diaspora and enslavement of the people of Judea (so mid 2nd century CE)

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fortfive t1_j304gzp wrote

Is there really antisemitism before the middle ages? I mean before that, they were conquered a few times, but the conqerors weren’t attacking just because they were hebrews, or treating them any worse than their other conquerees.

−18

domino2064 t1_j30avko wrote

>Is there really antisemitism before the middle ages? I mean before that, they were conquered a few times, but the conqerors weren’t attacking just because they were hebrews, or treating them any worse than their other conquerees.

Considering that the seleucids attempted what we'd consider genocide during the Maccabean Wars; the policies of the Roman and then Byzantine empires banning conversion to Judaism by death and then various, antisemitic policies since...

Yeah, it's been around for a long time.

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fortfive t1_j30za07 wrote

So maybe i’ll adjust my starting line to the formation of the catholic church, but things like genocide prior to that was just ancient geopolitics, and societies and warlords wiped each other out all the time. I mean, even the hebrews did it to the canaanites. Even in the egyptian slavery, it wasn’t really their jewish nature that led to oppression, pharaoh just wanted to keep exploiting cheap labor.

−4

SpindriftRascal t1_j309z92 wrote

Conquered a few times. Had the Temples sacked a couple times. Chased out of their homes repeatedly over the centuries around the continents. Had to adapt or assimilate to survive. I won’t spend time trying to understand the motives of those who would kill us. Res ipsa loquitur.

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fortfive t1_j30yuaa wrote

Prior to when christianity became the roman religion, though, it was just normal geopolitics right? Like the folks who who sacked and conquered weren’t singling out jews for being jewish, they were just conquering a rival society.

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[deleted] t1_j308bl2 wrote

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fortfive t1_j30zrg6 wrote

Because I don’t see any history to suggest it. Prior to the time when christianity was made state religion, The romans didn’t treat hebrews any differently than their other subjects, like the greeks or the cartaginians. The babylonians didn’t really care who was occupying palestine, they just wanted the land and ports. Ancient societies were constantly wiping each other out, taking each other’s women, and imposing religion on their subjects.

1

atlantis_airlines t1_j2zypr1 wrote

Neither.

Kanye west is the canary in a coal mine. He isn't the cause of the problem, just an indicator that there is one. And Israel was created as a safe heaven for Jews after the most intense period of antisemitism the world had seen to date. Antisemitism already existed well before either.

It's something that comes and goes and is self propagating. Antisemitism exists because people fall for rumors about groups they distrust, and they distrust these groups because there are rumors about them. Read a pamphlet about the dangers of Jews issued by the Nazis and it's the same claims and rhetoric from the medieval period. and the same stuff that's being thrown around today. No matter the era, there are people who will just hate jews and they all quote from the same stupid book.

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calm_chowder t1_j30u782 wrote

Not to mention antisemitism has existed in an almost unbroken chain for 2000 years. What we're seeing today didn't spring to life out of thin air, it's a link in a chain.

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nygaff t1_j3531pj wrote

Keep going... the Roman's weren't the first by any means.

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TdotSkunt t1_j31642o wrote

What about all the dead people from cop?!?! Guess a lawn is more important

−24

Fhujeth t1_j31ntxc wrote

That stuff makes the news all the time. Jew Hating does not.

6

nubsauce87 t1_j2zkag4 wrote

How many times does the world have to prove that the Jews aren't a problem before it sticks?

Also, when is it the Christians' turn?

−26

TechyDad t1_j31k7e6 wrote

To some Christian groups, we are a problem. They think that Jesus won't return and the world won't end until Jews like me convert to Christianity. I'm holding up the end of the world and they can't stand that!

1