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grublets t1_j64jo5i wrote

Having a camera doesn’t negate the need to shoulder check and use your eyes & mirrors.


sh_hobbies t1_j64o6ny wrote

Most cars aren't built like they used to be. Windows are higher up and don't have the same amount of visibility since they crutch the camera. The back window is good for seeing headlights behind you while you drive, but it's a total blind spot in a parking lot.


[deleted] t1_j64ozdn wrote



sh_hobbies t1_j64puik wrote

The downvotes would indicate folks didn't understand my comment. I'm not complaining or faulting anything in the design... but you can't just say "turn your head and use your eyes; don't depend on the camera!" Because your view is obscured by the design.


[deleted] t1_j64rp58 wrote



asdaaaaaaaa t1_j655qhs wrote

Was going to say, they're huge now. I really wish the US had something akin to old-school smaller trucks. I had an old roommate who drove a Ford Ranger, I loved that thing. I would love to get an imported mini-truck, if I didn't have to worry so much about other drivers.


darksoft125 t1_j6843ha wrote

Its crazy how big trucks have gotten. The Ford Maverick is considered a "compact truck," but it's similar in size and capability to an F-150 from the 80s!


asdaaaaaaaa t1_j685lwi wrote

F-150's are basically what 250's or commercial trucks used to be as well. I remember my dad's F-150, that thing was small in comparison to modern SUV's and trucks, same with the Nissan squarebody as well.


Golluk t1_j66q4y5 wrote

Sadly getting rid of it soon, but I have an '03 Ranger. Visibility is amazing as your essentially in a Turret with big windows in every direction.


lmaoidc29 t1_j659a80 wrote

Why import one ? We have plenty of mini trucks in the us unless you want something that wasn't sold here


cranktheguy t1_j65daf0 wrote

The new Ranger is the size of the old F-150. I'm not sure what small trucks you're referring to.


Wooden_Bed377 t1_j65jw39 wrote

Coincidentally the Ford Maverick is one example.

*Edit for spelling.


cranktheguy t1_j65kpxz wrote

1996 Ford Ranger (base model) wheelbase = 107.9"

1996 Ford F150 (base model) wheelbase = 116.8"

2023 Ford Maverick 2023 wheelbase = 121.1″


Wooden_Bed377 t1_j65l5g6 wrote

Sure. I've oddly enough had all 3 (well, early 2000's F-150). Did you pick the 2 door model by accident for the first 2?


cranktheguy t1_j65lmn1 wrote

No and no - those were both the regular cabs.

Edit: misread your comment, yes, I picked the base model, which is two doors. Because that's what a small pickup used to be.


Wooden_Bed377 t1_j65ly9z wrote

Ahh. That's your issue. The Maverick is a crew cab, and the standard size of the old ones nobody bought sales wise besides for fleet vehicles. The third door was where it was at :) haha.


cranktheguy t1_j65vi2o wrote

The issue is they don't make small (like the two door models) anymore. Half my friends in high school had small two door trucks like that, but they were a bunch of nobodies, so maybe half right.


Oddity_Odyssey t1_j66h8wm wrote

Have you ever seen a 95 Chevy s-10 or a 98 Toyota Tacoma. You can fit one person and a bag in those things.


errie_tholluxe t1_j6c3sws wrote

Something I noticed in LA one day. The S-10 is actually smaller than a modern Camry.


jefplusf t1_j65kkjz wrote

Maverick, Santa Cruz come to mind


cranktheguy t1_j65m359 wrote

1996 Ford Ranger (base model) wheelbase = 107.9"

1996 Ford F150 (base model) wheelbase = 116.8"

2023 Ford Maverick wheelbase = 121.1″

2022 Hyundai Santa Cruz wheelbase = 118.3"


jefplusf t1_j65ravx wrote

Why a wheelbase comparison as opposed to total length comparison?


cranktheguy t1_j65rsoz wrote

Wheelbase is the usual way to compare cars, but if you Google the length over all the rankings don't change. I'm on my phone right now though but you can look it up.


GoArray t1_j675nrh wrote

>We have plenty of mini trucks

The only 2, came out in 2021. You'd have to go back to the 90's for anything comparable. "Plenty" is a stretch by any definition of the word.


Didactic_Tactics_45 t1_j68x8sr wrote

You make a fair and accurate point, but it still doesn't alleviate the responsibility of the driver. The parent comment relates to the need for cautious driving if visibility is low. If you can't see clearly, the driver should back out very slowly until they can verify it is clear to back out completely. Pedestrians and passing vehicles have plenty of time to avoid you or alert you to their presence. I'm speculating of course but I'd guess these accidents are caused by drivers moving too quickly without visual confirmation that the path is clear. This is always the driver's responsibility with or without camera assistance.

*edit: spelling


veringer t1_j68j6an wrote

I have to imagine mirrors still work if your head and neck don't.


letigre87 t1_j66woc6 wrote

There was an article in an automotive magazine years ago about how an inch changed car design. It pointed out auto makers had to raise the hood off the engine for pedestrian safety and when that happened it changed all the lines on cars. The raised hood changed where it intersected the windshield and carried the body lines to the back essentially slanting the windshield and raising the hips. With everything lifted higher it meant the proportions were off and they had to stuff larger wheels in the now huge wheel wells. Now I gotta find the article.


vegetaman t1_j679z34 wrote

And then those damn pillars have gotten so massive it's hard to see pedestrians.


RKRagan t1_j65c44h wrote

My work van has no back windows. Hell it doesn’t even come with a rearview.


Now_Wait-4-Last_Year t1_j665f3w wrote

That can't be legal to make you drive that thing, surely?


NicklesBe t1_j666asx wrote

Have you never seen a work van? Most work vans don't have back windows.


Tibbaryllis2 t1_j66i1tz wrote

ASAIK, only the front driver/passenger mirrors, windows, and front windshield are required on vehicles. Everything behind the driver can be entirely solid.


finalremix t1_j66xaiu wrote

Yup. And in some places, it's an either/or situation. If you don't have a passenger sideview mirror, you need a rearview on the glass. One or the other is required at minimum.


round-earth-theory t1_j67iu95 wrote

You can backup without a rearview, but it does require a manual inspection of what's behind you before starting. As long as someone doesn't dart behind before you start, it should be safe.


RKRagan t1_j66iqg7 wrote

Its a brand new Ford Transit 350 and it has a camera and sensors. But I still check my side mirrors as well.


AcidTWister t1_j64xams wrote

See: The Rezvani Vengeance

With a back view so inaccessible, the rear view mirror is a screen that projects your rear camera image.


master-shake69 t1_j65dcuj wrote

Well to be fair I'd expect something like that to be in some sort of convoy instead of driving around by itself.


malphonso t1_j65xo4p wrote

Looks like something from the Crackdown games.


finalremix t1_j66xnml wrote

That seriously looks like the SUV before you get the spider jump. I love it.


finalremix t1_j66xm09 wrote

Okay, I fucking hate contemporary vehicles... but that I'd buy if I wasn't making a professor's salary.


Confident-Area-6946 t1_j66j660 wrote

Now youre speaking my honda crv language, its not that small of a rear window but its still small and optically it looks like people are tailgating me.


Noisy_Toy t1_j64s0b5 wrote

>since they crutch the camera

What does crutch mean in this sense?


sh_hobbies t1_j64tgko wrote

They use the camera to compensate for lack of visibility.


Noisy_Toy t1_j656f73 wrote

Thanks. I’ve never heard it used as a verb. Wasn’t sure if it was new usage or an autocorrect!


yawetag12 t1_j65lj8f wrote

>Wasn’t sure if it was new usage or an autocorrect!

It's been used as a verb for almost 400 years.


asdaaaaaaaa t1_j655tv4 wrote

They use it as a crutch, basically are dependent on it to function.


N8CCRG t1_j64k0jh wrote

>Their 360-degree rearview cameras may malfunction and display a blue screen that impacts the ability of a driver to see behind them.

That's not what this recall is about though.


grublets t1_j64k9y5 wrote

Right, their screens were blue. So back up like people did before rear cameras were a thing.


The69BodyProblem t1_j64l1nk wrote

Iirc the backup cam has been mandated in new cars for a while, so this may be something they're required to do by the government


mtarascio t1_j64nt0s wrote

Yeah, if someone had their rear view mirror broken off, you wouldn't say the broken rear mirror caused the accident.


tinman82 t1_j64orm6 wrote

Some new cars don't have rear view mirrors. Just a mirror shaped screen that shows the rear view camera all the time. Also some vehicles you just can't seeout the back. But yeah no excuse for not using mirrors and if the back up is acting fucky it would be worth a walk around to save a toddler or dog.


n3m37h t1_j64qhoy wrote

Not made for anywhere that had snow in otherwords


tinman82 t1_j65d1jf wrote

Panel vans are just a fact of life but yeah the other group is the new sports cars with tiny rear windows. Mustangs are spinny in good weather I'd love to see them in the snow.


n3m37h t1_j65d9o8 wrote

Any high gp rear wheel car is shit in snow, not enough weight for the torque


FordTech81 t1_j663mg7 wrote

Still spinny in snow. We have a 13 charger and when it snows it doesn't move from the driveway. 4500lbs and rwd with a V8, snow/ice is not friendly. I can make it to work, but we just mainly use the awd Ford edge in snowy weather. Much better handling.


dogswontsniff t1_j66nzos wrote

Hell chargers and mustangs are only decent in a straight line on a GOOD weather day


FordTech81 t1_j66zd69 wrote

Yep. They don't corner worth shit. But they sure are fun.


thegreger t1_j687bm1 wrote

I was reversed into, while stationary and honking my horn for attention, by a young driver in a huge-ass SUV whose excuse was that she couldn't see me.

If you're not 100% certain what's behind your car, you do NOT reverse. If in doubt: Stop, get your lazy ass out of the car and check, then go back into the car while keeping an eye on your surroundings for anything that might enter the space you're reversing into.

Why is it that the dumbest drivers always feel like they must have the biggest cars with the most tech? If every SUV driver were forced to drive a Fiat Panda, the world would be a better place.


GoArray t1_j64krcc wrote

It's exactly what the issue is.

You can't physically look over your shoulder use an analog mirror, the fix will obviously be to fix the camera / 'viewscreen', but perhaps dropping the ability to actually see behind you was a bad move.


finalremix t1_j66xz53 wrote

Seriously, visibility out of these new vehicles is terrible. I used to think the Chrysler 300 had bad visibility, but it's like having bay windows around you compared to newer models.


joeysflipphone t1_j64p3er wrote

Yes exactly. I have my almost entire cervical spine fused from c2-c3 to C7-t1, so my neck (it's essentially a long titanium bar) range of motion is extremely limited. I use my camera as an assistance, but always look as much as possible and use mirrors. I couldn't imagine just looking one place and being like, ok good to go.


NikeSwish t1_j67ai1v wrote

If my camera works why wouldn’t I trust it? I can literally see what my bumper sees. I don’t even turn my head when I go into reverse between my rear view mirror and my backup camera


piecat t1_j67dt2d wrote

It should be the goal to not need mirrors


Iron_Chic t1_j64tt8r wrote

Yep! I totally smashed the rear window of my car trying to back into a space using only the camera. Turns out there was a low-hanging pipe near the ceiling which would've been easy to see had my lazy-ass looked over my shoulder while backing in. Because the camera is plac3d in such a way that it only looks at the ground behind you, I missed seeing the high hazard and had to get the window replaced.


smoke1966 t1_j66ugv6 wrote

sideswiped a lamp post base with a late model navigator once for same reason. can't see squat out the back of these new cars.. I'll stick to my 04 oddessy till the doors fall off, great visibility.


leslie_n0pe t1_j64k92f wrote

I have been dealing with a faulty camera in my 2014 Ford Fusion for years now. It shows the picture in reverse which is almost more dangerous than not showing anything at all. My husband got rid of a 2013 Escape also with camera issues. This issue has been around long before 2020 models


wilsjacob t1_j66qbz6 wrote

Exact same issue here on mine. Mine malfunctioned in the first two or three years and they had the gall to try to charge me to replace it because it “wasn’t warrantied”


sgtcurry t1_j67blpy wrote

I was told that as well. Honestly every ford owner should start a class action against them for the back up cameras.


sgtcurry t1_j66wbdq wrote

Have the exact same issues on a 2012 explorer , 2014 fusion and 2014 escape.


coldwar252 t1_j695d0j wrote

That sounds like an easy fix to make. It's almost like Ford jumped the gun with backup cameras and still has no idea what they're doing.


Cocktail_MD t1_j64yp99 wrote

Are we calling this bug The Blue Screen... of Death?


cptbil t1_j66zxl2 wrote

They never should have partnered with Microsoft to develop SYNC. Now they have a SYNCing feeling


Xaxxon t1_j65qa3z wrote

For anyone curious, this appears to be a software issue but cannot be fixed over the air like it would on a Tesla. It requires making an appointment going in to a dealership - a traditional recall.


coldwar252 t1_j695fxk wrote

Is it because of the model year? A car from 2019 should not have such problems.


clineaus t1_j667rcn wrote

I know it's irrational but I've never trusted the camera. I back out the old fashioned way every time bc I'm convinced there's always something just out of the camera frame.


finalremix t1_j66y69p wrote

It's not irrational. Cameras, those "cross traffic warning" beeps, automatic highbeams you can "leave on", etc. all promote bad behavior when driving instead of being careful and aware of your surroundings.


DBDude t1_j65btz4 wrote

Just a software issue, but too bad they don't do automatic OTA updates.


compdog t1_j661inm wrote

> too bad they don't do automatic OTA updates.

That's actually a good thing. Imagine if Ford was hacked and someone was able to push a virus to every car remotely.


Cossil t1_j6742bv wrote

You don’t think that would’ve been done to Tesla by now? To Windows? There are an incredible amount of failsafes for things requiring this level of security.


cmv1 t1_j6akshh wrote

Plenty of armchair developers here to tell you what is and isn't feasible.


rypher t1_j664jcy wrote

This is why I don’t allow my smartphone to ever access the internet. Someone might push a virus to me remotely.


NikeSwish t1_j67aotd wrote

You sound like an old person ranting on Facebook. Software updates need more than one approval for changes, they get internally tested up until release, they get rolled out slowly and not all at once.


Iohet t1_j66n1fg wrote

OTA updates aren't necessarily a good thing without significant security and QA assurances. The fact that Tesla rolled out a major braking OTA patch within days of being notified of an article critical of their braking should be concerning to you, as there is no way such a major system was significantly road tested. OTA updates should be tightly controlled


DBDude t1_j6b15nj wrote

Depends. Quick rollout isn't necessarily a bad thing. A small bug can easily be fixed in that time.


coldwar252 t1_j695nua wrote

I wouldn't downvote this guy. 'He's right, you know.'

I have no fucking clue how those cars got out of the factory with inadequate brakes.


[deleted] t1_j65q0id wrote



sgtcurry t1_j669aew wrote

Honestly surprised they havent recalled every single car from 2012 onwards. Every single ford my family has purchased in the last 12 years have had the rear cameras fail or had a lot of issues with it. Ford backup cameras suck ass.


smoke1966 t1_j66tj49 wrote

They are junk and outrageously expensive (500-600$). They fail all the time. cheap china junk. a $20 netcam from bestbuy is a better product.


redditdave2018 t1_j69ebl8 wrote

Let me fix it for you. In this case its cheap American junk buys cheap camara from French supplier Valeo. China isn't the only country supplying cheap junk.


WolfyTn t1_j65n43n wrote

Explains why we got robocalled to stay home tonight.. gotta hear it through the tabloids first.. the people who actually build the cars are always last to know.. as always.. kinda ass backwards


roughtimes t1_j663jzv wrote

Lol wait, you get robo calls telling you to stay home?


WolfyTn t1_j66bl90 wrote

Yes.. they send everyone a call to not show up.. it’s a real woman’s voice but they mass send it out to us.. how I get downvoted lol

Edit: Still getting paid normally though so idc lol just sucks they don’t communicate with us


thealthor t1_j674uer wrote

Not show up to what? To Ford?


WolfyTn t1_j684zcv wrote

Yes.. they tell us not to show up to the plant and to come back the next scheduled work day.. and we get paid like normal either way.. I’ve been building these Corsairs and Escapes for 8 years and the past 3 we’ve consistently had part problems


roughtimes t1_j66fr7w wrote

They might tell you to not drive, but I can't imagine then explicitly saying you need to stay home. That's ludicrous.


coldwar252 t1_j695su2 wrote

Fucking hilarious dude, glad you got to stay home even if you didn't want to


WolfyTn t1_j6bhr7u wrote

Thanks lol getting paid to play Far Cry 6 right now.. everyone said it sucks but it’s awesome so far


coldwar252 t1_j6bjkg3 wrote

Only a tinge of jealousy, today was a good day to hide indoors and shoot up a fictional country for the rebellion 🤣


shewy92 t1_j68bg32 wrote

Did their mirrors suddenly stop working?


Happyjarboy t1_j661ql0 wrote

My 2014 Ford does not let you look at the rear camera while driving forward. Only works in reverse.


KittieKollapse t1_j67965m wrote

I have one of these. I think mine did the bug once when I put the car in reverse the camera just didn’t work. I was like wtf then put the car in park and back into reverse and it worked. I can’t remember if the screen was blue though.


WirelessBCupSupport t1_j68d6f1 wrote

I wonder if this is same issue neighbor had with his new Ranger. Seems 3 months after he got his truck, the rear cam would go out. Sometimes it was fine. After week or so at dealer, they gave it back with a shrug, "dunno, can't duplicate". 2 months after that, he get a call to come back to dealer. All they said was something about water intrusion causing it and there was a remediation. Hasn't had problem since.


snapper1971 t1_j6o5ekr wrote

Maybe America needs to update the driving test.