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ObjectiveDark40 t1_j4vktwd wrote

Oh another right whale dying while entangled? Yet Maine politicians are insisting it's not an issue and that using safer gear would be too much of a hardship. Good job Susan Collins and Jared Golden. I know this isn't Maine but it's relevant.


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4vr7ff wrote

So sad that there are so few left and the population is still in decline.

It breaks my heart to see what people have done to the planet, the environment, the creatures that live there—especially cetaceans, which are widely known to be some of the most intelligent animals on earth.

If only politicians could govern in good faith.


Budget_Pop9600 t1_j4w1qzq wrote

That doesnt fill their pockets though


techleopard t1_j51ujaa wrote

Sadly... this is one of the reasons I actually do support well-funded zoos. People can hem and haw about "abuse" all they like, but putting a financial incentive on saving animals is how they get saved from extinction.

For example, for certain types of endangered exotic antelope, there are more individuals on ranches in Texas than there are in the wilds of Africa. People want to shoot these animals so badly that it's become ludicrously profitable to not only save them from extinction, but manage their genetics to prevent them from bottlenecking.

If the cheetah wasn't so hard to breed in captivity, the pet market would have completely reversed their current endangered status because they're probably the "safest" of the big cats and most trainable for hunting, racing, and sport.


HandoTrius t1_j4yyfl4 wrote

It hurts my heart so much, we could do so much better


Megraptor t1_j4wj494 wrote

The comments over at the Maine sub about this issue are real gross. That whole sub really shows how Maine is closed off though. Don't mention you want to visit or move there, they will start complaining about people from away and biscuits and kittens. There's a saying...

Anyways, it's funny to me how much finger pointing there is about this issue. "No it's Canada!" "No it's the high speed boats!" "No it's the cargo ships!" "Stop trying to blame honest lobster fishermen!"

What is even more frustrating is that there's a solution, ropeless lobster pots. They use GPS to find them and then to collect them they inflate the buoy and it rises to the surface. The two problems is that one they are more expensive, and two, there's a long tradition of using buoy colors and patterns to determine who's pots are who- they keep that online or anything, you need to look at local boards. They don't want to move away from that.

Worse though, using colors by communities means that other communities may use the same color and pattern, so there is no way to actually tie ropes with buoys back to the US... Or Canada. And that's how they are technically correct when they say "American gear hadn't killed any North Atlantic Right Whales." It's not been tied back to American gear because it can't be.


ObjectiveDark40 t1_j4wmujo wrote

Yeah we moved there during the pandemic from out west. All the Maine groups on FB are full of "leave your politics in your home state, you are moving for a reason" and that sorta nonsense. Like...there are literally 1.5mil people here with an inverted population pyramid and failing towns and they don't want people to move there? My home county has the population of the whole state, let alone the metro area that's like 2x the population. Lots of morons. It's slowly changing though.


Megraptor t1_j4wuno0 wrote

I'm from Northern Pennsylvania, the area that has like no one and no one ever thinks about. It's no where near Philadelphia, it's closer to Pittsburgh but still hours through forest, mountains and farmland to get to the Burgh.

I was interested in Maine cause it's like where I'm from without the oil and gas politics, and a coast near by. Pretty much same critters too, outside of moose, but I'm used to driving like a granny due to overpopulated deer though. I thought the state was more environmentally minded than Pennsylvania too, but uh... Nope. They are protectionist against their chose economic drivers, it's just they don't have oil and gas resources to exploit like Pennsylvania does- and they never will, the geology ain't right for it there.

What gets me about Maine though is that it has the oldest population, and young people aren't staying... Yet they chase out young adults? My home area is like that- though the Mainers don't like hearing how Maine is like another place.

So... How are they ever going to keep a economy going if they don't let people move there? They complain about no jobs, yet shoot down anything that would make new jobs too. They hate remote workers.

I've seen a lot of Mainers say "At least we aren't West Virginia." Ironically, I live pretty close to West Virginia now, and hike there a ton. The people there are actually pretty nice, and take pride in their culture, unlike Maine where it seems like it's pride in family heritage and genetics.

WV is really trying to promote tourism and people moving there too, cause surprise, they have the same issue that Maine has. I think the big difference I've seen is that Maine has a history of tourism while West Virginia has a history of natural resource exploitation... Which has created both similar and different issues over the years.


edwinthowaway t1_j4wn1nj wrote

> Anyways, it's funny to me how much finger pointing there is about this issue. "No it's Canada!" "No it's the high speed boats!" "No it's the cargo ships!" "Stop trying to blame honest lobster fishermen!"

I mean, boat collisions are a documented cause of right whale death, and Canadians fish lobster, too. Surely those potential causes for right whale death should also be addressed.

> Worse though, using colors by communities means that other communities may use the same color and pattern, so there is no way to actually tie ropes with buoys back to the US... Or Canada. And that's how they are technically correct when they say "American gear hadn't killed any North Atlantic Right Whales." It's not been tied back to American gear because it can't be.

That's just not true. In Sept 2020, new marking requirements went into effect that will make is clear if entangled fishing gear comes from Maine:

Also, it's not like other fisheries use more identifiable equipment. The fact is you can't link the deaths to any specific fishery.


Megraptor t1_j4wrx5o wrote

The thing about boat/ship collisions is that those are already being addressed with reroutes and speed restrictions. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you don't hear the shipping industry complaining and getting politicians involved.

Old gear is still out there, and the data they are arguing with is from before 2020. It's from 2012. This is the paper I see cited a lot-

Author put out a newer paper in 2022 too, but even then the data is only until 2011.

So while yes, lines have to be marked now, the data is all before this change and that's what the state and lobster fishermen are using to argue that it isn't US fisheries. It also doesn't change that there still are unmarked or unidentifiable lines out there- but these mean that if anything, we should err on the side of caution until we can actually get good data on where gear is coming from, not continue to let Maine fish in protected areas while blaming other states/countries/industries.


edwinthowaway t1_j4wue8i wrote

> The thing about boat/ship collisions is that those are already being addressed with reroutes and speed restrictions. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you don't hear the shipping industry complaining and getting politicians involved.

I promise they are not happy and they are likely lobbying as well. Still, I have yet to see them called out as the lobster industry has. The Monterey Bay Aquarium isn't telling us to avoid stuff shipped by boat.

The lobster industry has also made changes, adding weak links to allow whales to break free more easily and sinking lines. Yes, it's not completely mitigated, but you seem to think that's good enough for ships.

> Old gear is still out there

Citation? According to my link, they have to use marked lines after Sept 1, 2022: "By September 1, 2020 all gear must be marked with the purple and green marks referenced above"

But your post implied that they are deliberately avoiding marking their gear so as to avoid it ever being traced back to the Maine lobster industry. That is not true. If this whale was harmed by Maine gear, the purple marks should make that evident.


Megraptor t1_j4x3kak wrote

Shipping industry was called out back when this all started, that's why. Back in the 2000s and early 2010s. Shipping collisions aren't unique to the NARWs either, so the government and environmental groups have been on shipping in general since... The 80s? I think that's about when talk about ships and whale collisions started happening.

Monterey Bay Seafood Watch is only for seafood, that's why. They do lobbying for speed restrictions and reroutes too, along with other aquariums, like New England Aquarium.

This is a continuous process of data gathering and finding out what the issues are. Entanglement deaths also outnumber vessel strikes in the last few years. We aren't seeing a decline in entanglements yet- note the data for 2019-2023 is not done being complied on this page.

The old gear is in the ocean, not being used. Lobster rope can last for years when submerged in water. Lost gear happens, and with it, lost rope. I don't think I need a citation for ghost gear, it's a widely known thing. But just because you asked-

My post implied that the argument that "it's Canadian gear" didn't work because gear wasn't marked when data was collected. On top of that, the marks only go so far- all they do is ID thing rope, they don't stop anything. And that's assuming that the rope isn't fouled up and you can actually see the marks.

And about your shipping assumption- shipping is a whole different beast with trade offs- it's less carbon intensive to ship by boat than by plane. Buying local when one can is always good. But even then, shipping is subject to restrictions, and we are seeing declines in mortality due to shipping vessels. I know for a fact that one of the deaths last year that is a vessel strike was not shipping, but a fishing yacht- which I do without just fine. And I do fine without lobster too, since there are alternatives in other, more sustainable crustaceans, or other proteins both plant and animal based.

There's a lot of restrictions on vessels too.

Regardless of marks or not though, it doesn't matter. Gear is getting stuck on these whales and killing them. Monterey Bay is saying err on the side of caution because there's 350 of these whales left. Until we can prove that


edwinthowaway t1_j4x5p8q wrote

There is little that can be done about ghosts gear. The lobster industry could stop fishing tomorrow and that would still be there. I don’t get your point. A lobster fished today with new gear does nothing about ghost gear. All they can do is use the best gear today.

You say err on the side of caution, then fine. Shut the industry down and start paying lobster fishermen not to fish ($750,000,000 a year). But all of a sudden, costs will matter when it’s not the lobsterman’s wallets we are hitting.


Megraptor t1_j55m60s wrote

Point is, gear today is still getting stuck on NARWs, marks or not. It's just old gear can't be traced to anywhere, and the data that many people are citing that says it's not US lobster pots is from before the pots were marked.

There are other solutions than to just shut it down completely. Ropeless pots are a thing.


edwinthowaway t1_j564goc wrote

> gear today

> old gear

These are not the same thing. All they can do is change what they use today. Even ropeless pots that you suggest do not magically eliminate old gear. My point is, they have taken steps to make the gear they use today traceable. They cannot go back in time and do it to already lost gear.

And who is paying for every lobster boat to get ropeless gear?


paper_snow t1_j505io6 wrote

I know there’s a larger issue to talk about here, so I’m sorry, but…

> biscuits and kittens

Huh? Does this mean something, or were you throwing out random words? Who complains about kittens? 🥺

> There’s a saying…

Can I please hear it? I’m being earnest here… I don’t know much about Maine’s residents, so it’s surprising to hear stuff like this about their general attitudes.


Megraptor t1_j55lpcq wrote

"Just because a cat has her kittens in the oven don't make them biscuits."

They say that in Maine, and it means just because people moved there and had kids doesn't make the kids Mainers. Sometimes it's a joke or a razz, but some people take it very seriously there.


paper_snow t1_j55o1s7 wrote

OMG… Thank you so much for answering! That was really bothering me. I’ve never heard that expression before. It’s actually kind of cute, until you realize that it’s pretty xenophobic… o_O Thanks for the perspective.


paper_snow t1_j55545y wrote

Dude… I’m serious. Biscuits and kittens? I’ve gotta know!


Megraptor t1_j55ljg7 wrote

"Just because a cat has her kittens in the oven don't make them biscuits."

It means that just cause your parents moved there and had you doesn't mean you're a Mainer. Some people use it as a joke, but some use it very seriously.


PyrrhaNikosIsNotDead t1_j5702xb wrote

Well I guess I could see their argument for the parents, but it seems the whole statement is about the kids not being a Mainer? That’s crazy, if you’re born and raised somewhere, you’re from there


GWS2004 t1_j4vzn2b wrote

Yup and they got a six year extension, I believe, on having to do anything to modify their gear to help the whales.


rnagikarp t1_j50t9u9 wrote

okay question for you, why is whaling illegal in Maine if it's a land-locked state?


edwinthowaway t1_j4wk0xm wrote

Where is it confirmed this is Maine lobster fishing gear? There are sadly many sources of line in the ocean. And that says nothing about vessel strikes. Why does Maine lobstering get attacked by no other potential sources of entanglement or whale death get addressed?

The question is a complex one. This letter, signed by Democrats and Republicans from the state makes a lot of good points. This article is also pretty unbiased, noting that it is essentially impossible to note where the gear comes from, although Maine gear has been marked since 2020. What I find interesting is that Right Whale populations grew 1990-2010, but only recently started falling. It seems to me that other factors are an issue that may not be understood.


ObjectiveDark40 t1_j4wm0gk wrote

Never said it fact I specifically said:

>>I know this isn't Maine but it's relevant.


OrganicRedditor t1_j4vmpx0 wrote

"At the time she was found, NOAA said it was "too late in the day" for an entanglement response team to go after her and she was too far from shore. However, the Clearwater Marine Aquarium said on Sunday that NOAA Fisheries is working with responders and trained experts to try to find her again." Good luck to NOAA!


beargrease_sandwich t1_j4weegu wrote

Help a whale is dying.

Hmm...I dunno, it's 4:35. We'll save it tomorrow.


devildog2067 t1_j4wfabp wrote

So there’s this thing called the sun, it lights up the sky, but only during the daytime. When it goes down below the horizon we call that nighttime, and it’s dark — especially out in the ocean.

Some things are too dangerous to try and do at night, like try and wrestle with a large marine mammal, because it’s dark.

They’re going to go in the morning when it gets light out. It’s not like they clocked out and went home because their shifts were over.


realoctopod t1_j4wgy2a wrote

Who are you that are so wise in the ways of science.


Zombie_Harambe t1_j4whp6m wrote

A duck


InfiNorth t1_j4wsjw8 wrote

Are you suggesting that ducks migrate?


realoctopod t1_j4xd2po wrote

What is is the air speed velocity of an unladen duck?


echaa t1_j4xpx7u wrote

Not at all, they could be carried by a coconut.


bogeyed5 t1_j4wij8c wrote

This person forgot that search Parties often call off searches when it gets dark, because you can’t see Jack shit


BiNumber3 t1_j4wk5mu wrote

High risk of the rescuers endangering themselves, both in the water and for land rescues.


Hopeful_Hamster21 t1_j4yd8wr wrote

You are correct. But in attion.... For any given search, there are only so many folks available for a search party. So what are you going to do... Put half on the day shift when they can see well and the chances of rescue are higher and half on the night shift when chances are lower? Of course not... Put them all on the day shift when chances are higher, further boosting your chances of finding. And humans are humans, they can't work 24 hours for multiple days in a row... They gotta sleep. So let them sleep when the chances of discovery are diminished.


The_Legend_of_Xeno t1_j4wj45g wrote

Not only that, but there are things in the ocean that are much bigger than you, and they like to feed at night.


Sirgolfs t1_j4wttof wrote

If there’s such thing, then the earth is round. I call bullshit.


The-loon t1_j4xk9xz wrote

Can you ELI5, this was too science-y to follow


[deleted] t1_j4wwmhz wrote



beargrease_sandwich t1_j4wxgqq wrote

I guess jokes aren't allowed in the second layer of comments on Reddit.


Farbanteri t1_j4x36ok wrote

“I was just pretending to be stupid!”

Okay buddy.


beargrease_sandwich t1_j4x3wjr wrote

Well I wasn't literally having that conversation. How is that a bridge too far for you? It's a joke.


I_LickSweatyKneePits t1_j4x4s2y wrote

Well, you didn’t tag it with a “/s”, you know how Reddit is man.


el_sausage_taco t1_j4zcmm7 wrote

It really shouldn’t need to be, “/s” is some of the dumbest jargon/shorthand that originated from this site


737069746F6E6D65 t1_j4xbkux wrote

I thought it was funny. Redditors get defensive when they fail to pick up on obvious jokes.


[deleted] t1_j4xmxyn wrote



RevengencerAlf t1_j4wqo5t wrote

Getting caught out there working at night is profoundly dangerous for both the rescue crew and the whale.

Even when a human being is in danger most search and rescue is called off at night because the danger to the rescuers is exponentially higher and the chances of accomplishing anything also drop to near nothing.


idontevenliftbrah t1_j4x4wbr wrote

They all are like this. I called NOAA on Oahu back in 2014 when we found a beached turtle covered in tumors. After describing it they were excited because they had been searching for that exact turtle for months.

It was 4pm though so they were not allowed to come out until next day.

I called them a few days later and they missed him. Obviously.


EmbarrassedHelp t1_j4yacbp wrote

Seems like it would have been easier for them to reach it as it was on land, rather than at sea like this whale.


78Deuces t1_j4wfn76 wrote

North Atlantic Right Whale if anyone’s curious.


nighteeeeey t1_j4wthzz wrote

isnt that trumps nickname


FollowingExtra9408 t1_j4yvjk0 wrote

So many downvotes. Well, you got a chuckle out of me ¯_(ツ)_/¯


nighteeeeey t1_j4ztlrj wrote

reddit do be reddit some days ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

also you dropped your arm buddy. here you go


GWS2004 t1_j4vxmxt wrote

Stop eating lobster and crab.


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4w5bnd wrote

I think there just generally needs to be a revolution in the way we utilize our marine resources. It doesn't really come down to a single fishery. As a whole, we're over-exploiting our oceans and creating the foundations of a catastrophe.


GWS2004 t1_j4wj9pz wrote

For whale entanglements it comes down to a couple of fisheries here on the east coast of the US. Those are lobsters and crabs.


thedrscaptain t1_j4wg1bl wrote

Good luck getting China to stop overfishing anywhere. They don't even give a shit about territorial waters that aren't their own--or-that-they-call-their-own--.


GWS2004 t1_j4wjl35 wrote

Correct, but that means WE have to ask where our seafood comes from. We need to be responsible for driving the change we need to see. Corporations are not going to do it if we don't demand it. The next time you order seafood ask where it is sorced from. If they can't answer that question, don't order it and be sure to let the manager know why.


thedrscaptain t1_j4wrbzp wrote

Agreed. And I do. Yet that practice is depressingly far from mass adoption


GWS2004 t1_j4ww4we wrote

I know. It's truly unfortunate. But I won't give up!


Different-Music4367 t1_j4y09xq wrote

An article from this fall, from a professor in Singapore (i.e. not knee-jerk pro-Chinese government), states that China has been implementing a number of policies to change its fishing industry. Pretty interesting stuff if you care about the world's overfishing problem:

The territorial waters discussion is a bit of a red herring (haha), but if countries were to put limits on fishing imports it would certainly have an effect. Three quarters of US seafood is imported, and its biggest import source is China.


fight_your_friends t1_j4wg106 wrote

Why not just farm them?

edit: Do we just downvote questions now?


Megraptor t1_j4wlvdi wrote

Crustaceans (crabs, lobsters, crayfish, shrimp and other crunchy aquatic "bug") don't take well to farming because they eat anything.

Including each other.

Even keeping a pet crayfish is a major pain in the butt. They dig up all the plants, eat all the fish that they can get their claws on, and then fight each other till death. They will munch on each other when they shed their shells and are soft (seriously, they get weirdly squishy.)

That, combined with slow growth rates just makes it not viable. They take so long to get to marketable size and they just eat each other before that.

And if we were to figure it out somehow, Maine would be very against it. Look at the PNW and salmon farming, they are EXTREMELY against it because they are worried it will impact their wild caught stocks and economy. There are some issues with salmon farming, like how they use Atlantic Salmon in the Pacific mostly while Coho Salmon are perfectly farmable. But you'd see this somehow with lobsters too I bet...


fight_your_friends t1_j4wv71j wrote

Thanks! Never knew much about crustacean behavior beyond a couple of Disney characters.


Megraptor t1_j4x0fbv wrote

They are vicious! Disney characters make them seem so dopey, but they basically are on omnivorous and aquatic gremlins with claws. from having crayfish as pets, I think they are smarter than a lot of people think too, and often will rove about their tank looking for trouble.


GWS2004 t1_j4wjme2 wrote

I personally don't know if you can.


mattmillze t1_j4wl7b4 wrote

They kill and eat each other in tanks pretty often and take a long time to grow to maturity. It's possible, but still not as profitable at scale as hoisting them from the depths where they aren't kept together for long.


[deleted] t1_j4wj0p4 wrote

I just got back from a crabbing trip where we couldn't put pots in the water because whales were in the area (I just used poles and snare traps). It's not like it's impossible to fish in ways that don't impact whales, it just takes a little extra effort. I wonder if states in the gulf are being as proactive as we are being here in California.


Fishtails t1_j4ymzra wrote

But I go crabbing and catch my own crab. I haven't caught a whale in my crab pots...yet. Plenty of starfish and sunflower stars, which we throw back in the water. No mammals whatsoever caught so far in my 30 years of crabbing...not yet at least.


hillsons t1_j4wu628 wrote

At the rate we're destroying the entire ecosystem, there won't be any lobster and crab either, so... there's that.


Proof_Eggplant_6213 t1_j4ybhq0 wrote

Those should be fairly easy lab grown meats, I’d think, since their muscles are a bit different. I hope that becomes a thing soon so it will no longer be necessary to fish them at all.


astroturfskirt t1_j4w1v0n wrote

stop eating all beings


__secter_ t1_j4wjaxq wrote

Blows my mind that - no matter how upset a whole thread is over an animal's death - the suggestion to simply stop killing animals for food will still get downvoted into the negatives.

You are right and they are wrong.


JcbAzPx t1_j4wrngl wrote

Plants are living beings too. That would amount to not eating ever.


Vault-Born t1_j50nzcl wrote

crabs are cannibals, i'll stop eating them when they do the same. we're nothing but animals ourselves, except without a penchant for cannibalism


[deleted] t1_j4w9j7n wrote



__secter_ t1_j4wizvj wrote

That is jaw-droppingly untrue. Water usage in meat production is orders of magnitude higher than plant-based food.


lamby284 t1_j4wmz4g wrote

What do the meat animals eat? Air? They get calories from nothing? More water is used to water the crops that had to be fed to those animals.

Edited: I replied to the wrong user but I'm keeping it :P


__secter_ t1_j4wrqxf wrote

The thing you're describing is the exact reason *[the user you meant to reply to] wrong

If you fed all those crops directly to people instead of livestock, there'd be no loss of energy/nutrition/calories to the middle steps(the livestock digesting the crops and turning it into meat, the livestock needing to drink gallons of water of its own, the massive industrial water requirements of the slaughter industry in general).

Imagine you have the option of giving someone a thousand bucks cash, or using it to buy them gift cards(with many fees and surcharges along the way) and jewelry to hawk.

In this analogy, the plants are the cash. The meat is the inefficient luxury goods it would be absurd and unsustainable to base an economy around.


lamby284 t1_j4wsxkf wrote

My dude, we are in agreement. It's way more efficient to feed ourselves directly rather than eat animals.


rjkardo t1_j4xs8xl wrote

This is so mind bogglingly stupid it is difficult to believe someone could suggest it.


Megraptor t1_j4wppve wrote

Nah, blanket statements like this aren't helpful when there's good alternatives out there.

There's some crabs and lobster that are sustainable. Florida/Caribbean Spiny Lobsters from the US warm waters are fine and so are Californian ones from birth the US and Mexico. Squat Lobsters/Langostinos are fine.

Chesapeake Blue Crabs are fine, but in the Atlantic there's some fishery issues with Diamondback Terrapins bycatch. Asian Green Crabs are invasive in the US and probably should be eaten anyways. Alaskan crabs in general are sustainable and have no problems too- but the fisheries are currently closed for their Snow Crabs ans both Red, Golden and Blue King Crabs. Dungess Crabs on the Pacific Coast are fine too.

European Lobsters are fine too, and are the same genus as American ones too. There's also an accidentally introduced and invasive population of American Lobsters in Norway that you can sometimes find on the market.

Confusingly, Norway Lobster are a prawn, and are a mixed bag. Oh and Rock Lobsters are fine too. Yes it's an actual animal, not just a song. They are a type of Spiny Lobster.

Tldr- just don't buy crab/lobster from New England and Canada if you're concerned about the North Atlantic Right Whales. If you want more info on overall seafood sustainability, just look at Monterey Bay Seafood Watch


JcbAzPx t1_j4ws8go wrote

I think it's interesting that at one point in the past this type of seafood was considered trash and mainly fed to prisoners. Now it's luxury food that we're ruining the ecosystem to try to get enough of.


[deleted] t1_j4vjq34 wrote



Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4vqc32 wrote

It's unclear if they'll be able to locate the whale again. Unfortunate, considering the importance - obviously safety is the priority, but given their conservation status, perhaps they should track her through the night.


Megraptor t1_j4wk0qx wrote

It's much harder to that then you'd think. Large whales are dangerous to be in the water around, especially if they are thrashing. They also can dive deep which makes them very hard to track.

For as much as the public thinks we know about whales and dolphins, we actually know pretty much nothing about them because they are so difficult to track. Most of our toothed whale (dolphins/porpoises/orcas) knowledge comes from aquariums, and our baleen whale knowledge is basically nothing. We only know so much about North Atlantic Right Whales cause there are so few and they are tracked heavily by conservation researchers. They have Endangered Species Act funding too, unlike a lot of other cetaceans...

If you ever want to look up a very mysterious group of whales (cetaceans if you want to be scientific) look up the beaked whales. We know like nothing about them, and some species have only been ID'd once 100 years from a single stranding/wash ashore.


Old_Cheesecake_5481 t1_j4wkate wrote

Maine has a system where they fish year round and they have 600 - 800 traps.

The Canadian system has seasons and you are allowed 375 The largest Lobster Fishing Area operates when the Right Whales are else where. The Right Whales here tend to show up in the Summer and early Fall.

The Lobster Fishermen have whale rescue operations like this where they go out and try and save the whale.

A could years ago a lobster fisherman was killed trying to detangle a Right Whale.


OccludedFug t1_j4vlfsa wrote


Also, TIL "whale lice" are a thing.


Teamnoq t1_j4xxt4s wrote

Kill the oceans, great job guys!


scummy_shower_stall t1_j4ziy6k wrote

I read an article some years ago, that perhaps the right whales aren’t reproducing because their hearts are broken. It was a very eloquent article, Smithsonian or NG, maybe Science mag, it wasn’t a blog post.

One of the reasons passenger pigeons went extinct is because they were too nervous to reproduce when they were in such small numbers. It’s not a psychological problem for many species but it was for the passenger pigeons. I think the article was hypothesizing a parallel to the Right whales.


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4zrs88 wrote

That is really interesting! I was commenting on another reply yesterday about the intelligence of cetaceans and how sad it is to know what humans have done to so many of them. I'll try and find that article today, thanks!


Morepastor t1_j4zzh27 wrote

It is these lines that do more damage to our ocean than the plastic bag I can’t buy anymore. People are shamed for their use of straws and plastic but the reality is if we all stopped the oceans remain in trouble from the fishing industry.

Over 4.6 fishing vessels across the oceans have unintentionally and intentionally lost gear and that gear is designed to catch fish so the loss of gear doesn’t just pollute the ocean it makes the ocean more dangerous for it’s natural inhabitants. The plastics will break down into micro plastics and end up in our food chain and in us. How much plastic? The known amount would stretch to the Moon and back 5 times. It’s 10% of the total plastic in the oceans. The largest plastic pollutant we have. Over 640,000 tons of plastic and gear or 55 double decker busses each year (that we know of).


The-Real-x183 t1_j4xis6o wrote

Can we get a billionaire with gadgets they want to test on this mission?


femina33 t1_j4xp9zu wrote

Why can't we put together an A Team to rescue him


Psychdoctx t1_j4zowee wrote

Gotta love us greedy people the cancer of the earth.


dragondead9 t1_j503n8n wrote

I hope people who consume fish see the errors of their way. There are alternative calorie sources for fish that come from plants that will eliminate/reduce these bycatch problems. Unless of course you fish eaters want the oceans to be depleted of mammals and fish…. But you tell me. Actions speak louder than words.


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j5071je wrote

I don't think you have to be so black and white. There are many millions of people worldwide who depend on marine resources to survive. Yes, industrial fishing is a HUGE problem. But, there are sustainable fishing practices that reduce bycatch and actively work to prevent dangerous ghost nets, entanglements, environmental damage, etc.

I think the most reasonable and responsible approach is to do your research and select ethical products. Or, if you so choose, eliminate fish and other seafood from your site entirely.


dragondead9 t1_j509def wrote

You can’t verify your food intake sources 100% of the time, same goes for plant-based diets. There are millions of products which are derivatives of fish sources, like fish sauces and gelatin. Unless you live off the grid and catch all your own food and abstain from all commercial products, you will eventually consume non-sustainable fish products or byproducts. All that to say, it’s easier to remove fish from one’s diet entirely as most people aren’t going to be able to live in your rugged, off grid sustainable food environment.

And for bias, Plant based food sources have their problems too. But there is a severe drop in ecological destruction caused by plant-based agriculture compared to animal-based agriculture. I’d rather take my chances with plants and at least attempt to reduce my harm in a way that is cost friendly for everyone (have you seen the cost of sustainable fish and animal products? A 20lb bag of beans costs like $15)


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j50qplr wrote

Sure, and I'm not arguing against vegetarianism, I think that's a great choice. I've been on and off a vegetarian diet for some time. It is definitely the most sustainable and safest option. But many people are very opposed to the idea for one reason or another, so I believe that encouraging a wide range of sustainable practices within their lifestyle is a good place to start. As more and more plant-based options become available, hopefully a lot more people will come around to the idea that vegetarianism is easy, affordable, ethical, and sustainable. That said, as someone who believes all these things, sometimes it's easier said than done - it takes effort, which is a barrier to overcome.


VegetableDrank t1_j4vyczm wrote

Did it become heavily entangled in plastic straws?


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4w4zni wrote

I can't tell if you're kidding. It's ghost netting, or nets/rigging that are unmanned and floating as debris in the open ocean. Ghost nets account for a huge portion of marine debris, and kill tons of wildlife.


VegetableDrank t1_j4wpc23 wrote

Surely it was all the straws in the ocean and not littered industrial fishing lines and nets that caused the whale to become tangled.

The good ol' fishing industry would never do something like this. Consider all the dolphins they claim not to harm!


Simple_Opossum OP t1_j4wrf0l wrote

Ah👈, I see what you mean. Of course, it's all those single-use plastics you use on a daily basis, not the producers of those plastics. No, not at all.


Farbanteri t1_j4x3kpp wrote

I mean, single-use plastic straws are still an issue. While they may not entangle an animal like a net, animals will still eat and subsequently choke on it. Plus, if it doesn’t choke on it, then it digests it - absorbing micro-plastics into their body. We then eat said fish or crabs or whatever, and those microplastics end up in our bloodstream. It’s horrific stuff.