Submitted by _Brandobaris_ t3_11jknh4 in nottheonion
riggerrig t1_jb3p5vt wrote
Reply to comment by AnybodySeeMyKeys in ‘Sick of it’: Catholic women vent frustration over sex, power and abuse by _Brandobaris_
I cannot speak to the Catholic church, but I know a lot of people who are comforted by the existence of God. Some people just cannot handle the thought that life is meaningless.
This is where we might disagree, but the problem occurs when people create positions of power, and then someone warps that power for their benefit.
This happens in secular areas as well but in different ways. It is a fairly well known fact that psycopaths seek positions of power, CEO, lawyers, Cops, pastors, or any position of power that holds sway over others.
The realistic solution to this is that the general population gets smarter to detect and then avoid people like this. You might seen that video of that pastor with 760 million net worth with a private jet. Any person who continues to give to that church is deluding themselves that money helps others. It is just a lot more visible when Pastors go bad then say a more private "job" or "position of power". A regular person is far removed from a CEO or lawyer, usually.
We cannot get rid of these positions or jobs, but we as a society have to hold others accountable for their actions.
Rosebunse t1_jb3sdhs wrote
You know, you can believe in God and not organized religion
SYLOH t1_jb452kc wrote
Or believe in God, take advantage of the structure of organized religion, just not the Catholic Church.
People have been sick of the Catholic Church for centuries and have been doing something about it since 1517.
I'm an atheist, and even being an organized theist has better options.
GoldenRamoth t1_jb58ubw wrote
Yeah.
Theism isn't the issue. Creating power structures that get abused has always been the issue.
Creating systemic accountability is incredibly hard.
Jampine t1_jb5hori wrote
But wouldn't it basically be impossible to merge theism with accountability?
There's no definitive proof that anyone has spoken to, heard or even seen any devine entity, so the entire system is basically built on hearsay.
And because of that, it's impossible to police, since everyone's argument about how it should be run has the same amount of evidence (zero).
Smart-Rip-3733 t1_jb6333x wrote
The impossibility of policing is due to the concentration of power. Organizations with access to children often have the problem of child sex abuse. You see this with or without "god" in the mix.
Feraltrout t1_jb5oeq4 wrote
That's the part that grinds my gears, accountability should very easy but there is always some excuse for the greed
TheRealVillain666 t1_jb5r9kn wrote
There's a reason the Puritans fucked off to the americas, they were whinging about being persecuted for not being able to persecute others.
It's just that we got tired of their shit in the 16th century.
wewora t1_jb7etej wrote
Most followers don't want that. They want to tell themselves they are good people because their butts touch a pew once a week, they say specific words, perform useless rituals, and occasionally talk about religion. Because that doesn't take any effort or sacrifice. They don't want to use religion to become better people or make the world a better place. It's all about how religion benefits themselves.
Because then they can spend all their time outside of church worrying about how much more money they can get, how many more vacations they can go on, how big/fancy a house they can afford, what else they can do to entertain themselves, boost their ego, and serve their vanity, all while telling themselves they're actually exceptionally good people just because they slapped a label on themselves and go to a specific place once a week - unless they're on vacation, of course.
And obviously, telling themselves they are better than others or trying to force rules that they themselves don't follow. It's amazing how they will only talk about religion and how wonderful it is to be part of that religion...even though it hasn't influenced them to become better people yet. Just gotta start converting (because it doesn't take any effort or sacrifice), but definitely don't need to do any volunteer work or donate to any charities. No no, it's all about the words and low effort rituals.
Rosebunse t1_jb7idlb wrote
I don't know, I think it's more than that. People want to know that life has meaning and purpose. And these big churches provide that.
Take this story. I can't stop crying let it, I don't understand it. I'm mad at God and the universe. But when you add organized religion to it, it turns it into something else. You can blame the Devil or say there was some greater purpose here. Or you can loon smugly and say that this senseless tragedy could never happen to you.
wewora t1_jb7jada wrote
I think religious people are more likely to think that it could never happen to them, because God is protecting them, or because they think they are good people and bad things don't happen to good people, and if it does, then they tell themselves it will all turn out fine eventually. Because they cannot cope with the reality that bad things can happen to anyone for no reason, it's all just shitty luck. What kind of benevolent god would let his own creations suffer like this? Surely if he had a plan, the plan would be that someone would come along and find the toddler, not let it starve to death. Why would a just and all knowing god, allow innocent babies to be born with cancer? Because based on religion, he himself chose to make them that way.
When I hear about terrible, senseless things happening, I don't loom smugly. I shudder and think that it could happen to me.
Edit: I don't have anything against religion. There's a miniscule number of people who actually use religion to try to become better people. There's also a small amount of people who join religion because it brings them comfort and community, which is fine too so long as they understand that just being part of a group does not make them good people.
But the vast, vast majority of people want to use religion to benefit themselves, and/or to control and worsen the lives of others. I have a friend who talks such a big talk about how religion is so important to her, how her relationship with god is so important to her, regularly posts things about her church. I have never, ever heard her talk about doing volunteer work or supporting a charity. Ever. And when it came time to do what was best for others during the pandemic, to live humbly and stay home, you know, the entire actual points of the religion? Well, she decieded that having a large wedding in 2020 and then multiple vacations were actually what was most important to her. I guess all those years of giving up chocolate for half of lent just wasn't enough to prepare her for actually doing god's work. But gosh she is just so religious!
Rosebunse t1_jb7l00v wrote
I think that's why I'm mad at God. It can happen to me. It can happen to all of us. God works in mysterious ways and all that. There is a greater plan but that doesn't mean we're going to like our place in it.
And when I bring this up in church or with religious people, dear God do they hate me for it.
That poor little boy. All I can think of is how he spent his last moments on Earth wondering why his father wasn't helping him, wasn't picking him up and getting him ready for their day or feeding him. It's all I can think of. No one was being cruel there, the dad just died. His family called within a reasonable amount of time, really. No one was being cruel here.
I can't stop crying. I have been crying about it all day.
wewora t1_jb7lofy wrote
My advice would be to use those feelings to do some good in the world. Go volunteer at a food bank or a crisis center. Help someone who is still suffering. And keep doing it. Regardless of if god or an afterlife exists, at least you'll know you did something in this life to make things better for others.
Rosebunse t1_jb7m6ao wrote
No, you're right. You're right.
kodaxmax t1_jblqzw3 wrote
not a christain god. if the old testament is to belived he would have personally dropped metorites on all the people making him look bad or gave their children the plague or something by now.
A modern utopian christain god wouldn't have let these things happen at all.
ackermann t1_jb6q78n wrote
True. Although, if you’re going to reject the religion of your parents and family, that you were raised with, that opens a rather overwhelming choice about which other god you’re going to choose. There are probably thousands to pick from, different gods that humans have come up with over the centuries.
I suppose you could simply accept that god exists, but that humans don’t/can’t know anything about him/her, the “spiritual but not religious” route that’s now popular. Don’t subscribe to any particular interpretation of god. But this is probably less comforting, less appealing to many, who would prefer a more personal knowledge of god?
The god that your family raised you with, often comes with what feels like very compelling evidence: that most of your friends, family, and people you’ve come to greatly respect, all seem to agree on this particular god/religion
Rosebunse t1_jb71qzj wrote
I read this today and now I just...why? God why? There is not even any point.
Electrical_Parfait64 t1_jb7a4bv wrote
God has a plan even if we don’t understand it
Rosebunse t1_jb7e8ah wrote
I get that but still. And not believing in God just makes me feel worse. It's not like there was even anything malicious about this. The dad just had a heart attack and the baby starved.
mvanvrancken t1_jb8b5pe wrote
Yes, BUT - then you're just basically inventing a god that you like. It's possible that ALL of the religions are wrong, but I find it even more probable that your personal opinion on gods would be even wronger.
Rosebunse t1_jb8bbqz wrote
Dude, I accidentally read the worst story I possibly could today. My God isn't benevolent and good and doesn't grant me wishes. I think I'm probably right on this one.
mvanvrancken t1_jb8c4ki wrote
There is an astonishingly high chance that there is absolutely nothing at all that one could call a "god". It's an entirely fabricated concept.
On a side note, sorry about the story you read. I've certainly seen some day ruiners.
Rosebunse t1_jb8e0y0 wrote
I guess I am not ready to not believe. Plus, I have found that even without God, atheists ask the same questions. They try and find patterns and reasons too.
mvanvrancken t1_jb8er2g wrote
Yup, we’re human too! Patterns is what we do, sometimes to outrageous effect.
Rosebunse t1_jb8fdv7 wrote
I mean, look at eugenics, even the Holocaust had a weird atheist bent to it. Even without God, people want to believe that their suffering matters or they can fix things.
mvanvrancken t1_jb8fuxw wrote
You're kidding, right? Gott Mit Uns (God With Us) was the motto of the Reich. Hitler gained support from the Catholic Church and steadfastly argued that Germany was a Christian nation, and willed by God to pursue the purification of Germany.
tacoTig3r t1_jb4y060 wrote
That does not sound very christian (profitable), where's the point (power) in that?
PM_ME_UR_SEAHORSE t1_jb5mt5q wrote
We could get rid of CEOs, I definitely think the answer is to radically change the economic system, not to keep these insane power imbalances and just hope that somehow better people will fill those positions
Kind_Ferret_3219 t1_jbmttad wrote
I don't believe in God and I certainly don't think that life is meaningless. I used to be a practising Catholic, but realised that most of the stuff taught by the church was rubbish. The life that we lead should be as meaningful as possible. I can't understand why you would hope that your soul would ascend to heaven after you die. I like to make the life that I'm leading now more important than any after death expectations. I respect a person's right to believe in whichever creed they wish, but to my mind the Church is about controlling people's behaviour and earning revenue.
[deleted] t1_jb44obc wrote
[removed]
ryukman1 t1_jbi4u9j wrote
The main issue is giving men the power to speak on behalf of god. Organized religion is a mistake.
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