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Wienerwrld t1_jcmb5za wrote

Some of those planes climbed and dove several times before crashing. I can’t imagine the terror.

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ooDymasOo t1_jcn65uy wrote

“Boeing has argued that this is speculative, and that damages shouldn’t be awarded for “pre-impact fright and terror.” An expert in human factors and aerospace physiology hired by Boeing countered the above by arguing the following:

“While passengers undoubtedly perceived the flight as scary, humans have a tendency to hold on to hope and not expect the worst. Ultimately, it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant””

106

Zacolian t1_jcnmyjy wrote

As a plane crash survivor I can tell you right now this is bullshit. When that thing is going down I was confident I was going to die, even though I’m clearly here today.

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JackKovack t1_jcnx3xx wrote

Shit, what plane crash were you in?

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Elmodogg t1_jcn7587 wrote

If it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant, how can Boeing be so sure that they weren't suffering the worst terror and anguish until the moment of impact?

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tdupbeats t1_jcnhb3v wrote

They don’t… burden of proof though. It’s a shitty thing to argue, but I guess they weighed the cost of paying for the suffering vs. the hit their image would take for making the argument.

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SilasX t1_jcujtwr wrote

It’s a weaker burden in a civil case though, just “more likely than not”. So, if “we really can’t know” then we should assume the average response to flight terror, not the lowest.

1

ChrisFromIT t1_jco2g8o wrote

>Ultimately, it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant””

If only they were still here, they would be able to tell us.

O wait, they can't, because they are fucking dead Boeing. Dead because of you, Boeing.

Fuck Boeing.

20

JackKovack t1_jcnwsmc wrote

Woo! This is like a ride! Haha haha, this is fun. Oh, we’re going down fast wahoo! We’ll be fine. Says the lawyer.

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Busty_Superhero t1_jco9xgc wrote

This is moral fuckery. Even an optimist, holding on to hope, would be suffering during a flight crash. The tendency to believe you’ll live doesn’t mean you don’t feel absolute terror during a life-or-death situation.

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TheDwarvenGuy t1_jcnbsum wrote

For all we know it could've been like a fun roller coaster ride for them before the end

6

CatAvailable3953 t1_jcqju1r wrote

As a retired aircraft accident investigator I find Boeing’s position reprehensible but not surprising. It’s a corporation. Not a person. Money is the only objective.

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Antibotics t1_jcte3f3 wrote

>It’s a corporation. Not a person.

Indeed, except corporations are made of people, so each one of those individuals who contributed to the problem is actually responsible (morally, if not legally).

Hiding behind the corporation is a cop out. I'm sure the individual people at Boeing who made or contributed to the decisions that led to all the suffering and eventual deaths can morally excuse their actions by saying it was the company and not themselves who did it.

1

NofksgivnabtLIFE t1_jcmv4fu wrote

As someone who doesn't fly but did for sick parents turbulence had me speaking to a higher power to cut it out. I wasn't on one of those though as for sure would be scared to the point of being passed out probably.

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washington_jefferson t1_jcn1kzl wrote

> I don't usually fly, but I made an exception when my sick parents needed me. During the flight, the turbulence was so bad that I found myself praying for it to stop. Although I wasn't on a flight like that again, I know I would be extremely frightened and possibly even pass out if I experienced such turbulence again.

-- ChatGPT Bot (Beep-Bop)

−6

wwarnout t1_jcm7hqe wrote

OK, let's have the CEO and board members die in a plane crash. They won't suffer.

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Pauzhaan t1_jcm7mbc wrote

Capitalist compassion

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RonnarRage t1_jcnxb6t wrote

How's that capitalism? I can point to group self interest in every other market model lmao.

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putalotoftussinonit t1_jcmyuxq wrote

Let me know when we reach this point in our society. It may be a huge positive to make the 1% a negative number.

11

Elmodogg t1_jcn78h3 wrote

And let their lawyers who came up with this ghoulish argument tag along with them, too.

9

myjunksonfire t1_jcmcvcr wrote

It's how the old saying goes. Take a man on a flight and he flys for a day. Take a man on a 737 max and he flys for the rest of his life.

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machineguncomic t1_jcmoh5e wrote

Boeing has argued that this is speculative, and that damages shouldn’t be awarded for “pre-impact fright and terror.” An expert in human factors and aerospace physiology hired by Boeing countered the above by arguing the following:

“While passengers undoubtedly perceived the flight as scary, humans have a tendency to hold on to hope and not expect the worst. Ultimately, it is impossible to know the subjective experience of each occupant.”

Let's split the difference. We'll say half held onto hope and half were expecting certain death. So if you owe 100 billion for the pain, cut in half they owe 50 billion.

You just have to choose the correct starting number so that when it's cut in half it is still the correct punitive number.

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squishopotamus t1_jcmqyjp wrote

"Hired by Boeing"

13

Skyhawkson t1_jcp2vvx wrote

That's how litigation works, you can hire an expert witness to testify as to some part of the case (and your opponent can cross-examine them). For example, a car accident may have an auto mechanic testify as to the poor maintenance of the brakes that may have contributed to the crash.

As with all court witness testimony, it's up to the jury to decide whether to believe it or not.

4

westdl t1_jcnkeoa wrote

Disgusting and if this doesn’t work, they’ll go for the Schrödinger’s cat defense: Once the door on the plane closed, the passengers and crew were neither alive nor dead and therefore Boeing is not at fault.

9

7ECA t1_jcn0zwq wrote

I had a close associate who perished as a passenger on the first plane to hit the WTC. As much as I mourned his loss what eats at me to this day was the stark terror he must have felt watching as the plane descended to the level of the buildings in Manhattan. Even if his death was nearly instantaneous no one should have to endure that level of fear. Same for these Max passengers. Oh and like my buddy they felt it, however briefly

18

janzeera t1_jcnq7jc wrote

Boeing: “The real sufferers of ‘fright and terror’ are the stockholders.”

18

HobbitFoot t1_jcm8d41 wrote

Well, do you hear them complaining?

15

budgreenbud t1_jcn0u0f wrote

I would say their surviving family members are suffering and victims of the crash.

13

SelectiveSanity t1_jcmc98t wrote

"You got to admit, my client's car is pretty awesome, right?"

"It doesn't matter how good your client's car looked, it still ran me over."

11

Earnastus t1_jcmiczi wrote

I'm sure everyone was completely chill..all...the...way...down.

9

[deleted] t1_jcmo2a6 wrote

[removed]

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−3

Newish_Username t1_jcmli02 wrote

Damn, their lawyers really went all in there.

8

bobshmurdt t1_jcnfyqw wrote

You killed a bunch of people just pay up geez

7

NoWayNotThisAgain t1_jcoi9tj wrote

One of the most annoying things about America in the 2020s is that EVERYBODY tries to gaslight.

7

joeykins82 t1_jcod3ny wrote

Every airline should be sent a copy of this legal filing along with the brochures for the A320neo family and A350.

Fuck Boeing.

6

benskieast t1_jcmykt8 wrote

Under NYS law this would eliminate there moral damages since they don't ascribe inherent value to peoples lives. Lawsuits can only sue for pain, suffering and medical costs while someone is alive and lost wages as a result of an injury including after someone dies. As a result if someone dies as a result of an accident it reduces damages.

5

--harumph-- t1_jcpcwzn wrote

Lost wages for life plus the cost of replacing their non work service (parenting, cooking, house cleaning, gardening, befriending home/car repair) so many activities must be added to make an accounting of a person's value accurate

2

benskieast t1_jcpf120 wrote

I didn’t say it was a good law. It just is one that exists. I of course think people are worth more than there financial output. There is also companionship, love and grief that are huge. But NYS has an outdated law that doesn’t value those things and people should know.

3

Massive_Ad_8856 t1_jcnrjx3 wrote

Boeing used to be a really great company. They are disgusting now. They fucked up huge with the 737 Max and should pay. In my opinion they should have been charged criminally for all those deaths. 🖕🏻you Boeing !

4

Assassin_by_Birth t1_jcptyri wrote

Instead they gave the CEO or whoever at the time like a $73 million dollar windfall and he now resides in a country that isn’t America. The money to pay the victims families should have came directly from that windfall, AT THE MINIMUM!

2

Thegoodthebadandaman t1_jcshzbo wrote

Boeing was never the same after they catch the McDonnell Douglas parasite.

1

DRTmaverick t1_jctn5ip wrote

You mean after they absorbed McDonnell Douglas? Honestly not surprised, MD was still struggling after the A-12 failure.

2

Thegoodthebadandaman t1_jctq7s3 wrote

Boeing technically bought McDonnell Douglas but MD's upper management, the very reason why the company failed in the first place, ended up in charge of Boeing. It's like McDonnell Douglas was a zombie which bit Boeing. It's why Boeing went from being an engineering focused company to one which only cared about profits and line go up.

2

Zacpod t1_jcnlusr wrote

And this shit is why I won't set foot on one of their death traps. They're clearly a company whose ONLY motivation is money, and if they need to kill a few hundred people, they're fine with that.

Any company who would blame their pilots for their planes falling out of the sky instead of gazing inwards at the cost-cutting non-redundant sensors, and illegal safety legislation bypassing, clearly has zero morals and can't be trusted with anyone's life.

Fuck Boeing. I hope they die in a fire like the victims of their mismanagement and greed did.

3

nondescriptun t1_jcntwu2 wrote

"In fact, one of the flights was operated by Spirit, so you could say we helped end their suffering."

2

itsallgood013 t1_jcny8f2 wrote

I’m suffering by reading this headline.

2

Gebling65 t1_jcq5qum wrote

Boeing: It wasn't the long fall from the sky. It was the abrupt stop on the ground, and that was instantaneous, so nobody suffered.

Ummmmmm.....

2

Thomas_JCG t1_jcmfvnt wrote

Sometimes it's best to just stay quiet.

1

ThaxReston t1_jcokitc wrote

Boeing and GM. The worst of American manufacturing

1

nixstyx t1_jcpa85w wrote

I don't understand this aspect of the system at all. Dead is dead. If there are separate payouts or penalties associated with suffering they should be automatically applied if the victim dies. You can't know the experience of the person BECAUSE they're dead. That should negate any argument against it. You know what's worse than temporary suffering? DEATH.

1

Kraken160th t1_jcq002e wrote

Wow really glad my company didn't re up the boeing contract.

1

whoperman t1_jcq50d6 wrote

Put the shrink in a plane and nose dive it into the ground recording the whole thing. If they didn’t suffer I’m sure he will go with it

1

alwaysZenryoku t1_jct8yel wrote

What a fucking joke. Those passengers were terrified in their final moments and well aware that they were going to die in a brutal manner. Boeing needs to pay a shitton to their families.

1

DRTmaverick t1_jctoc70 wrote

We could opt to put the families of the Boeing staff members that were responsible onto one of their faulty 737's and do some test crashes. They should be completely okay with this, it means their families won't suffer.

2

DRTmaverick t1_jctmihv wrote

I get they're trying to win an argument for sake of not losing money but I doubt " the airplane crashed into the ground so fast that their brains didn’t have time to process pain signals from their nervous systems.”

1