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psychecaleb t1_iuwyxb0 wrote

Policy makers think: shoot tame wolves, they become wild wolves

Reality: shoot tame wolves, they become revenge wolves


[deleted] t1_iuydu3u wrote



CowFckerReloaded t1_iuygysh wrote

Paintballs hit hard enough to leave welts, not great to be hit by one unsuspectedly like these wolves.


Drusgar t1_iuz4rrx wrote

>they will just dislike humans

That's the idea.


FrozeItOff t1_iuz6fnk wrote

No, dislike as in, "Bite when see." not "Run away because I'm afraid of them."


halisme t1_iv05doa wrote

Yes, that is part of the idea.


Helixranger t1_iv2fl48 wrote

To prevent wolves from being a danger to humans, we potentially provoke them to attack humans instead?

Idk about how effective that plan is.


newbikesong t1_iv0bcno wrote

Most animals would not understand that humans are the ones who throw paintballs.

Can wolves understand that?


CatHammerz t1_iv0lovh wrote

You may be underestimating the intelligence of animals :P

If they wont learn about it, they will for sure connect seeing humans and pain.


newbikesong t1_iv0miyp wrote

Dogs fail mirror test though.

There was actually a very similar topic of discussion.

Dogs seem to fail it unless trained. Though I see no experimentation like mirror test.


CatHammerz t1_iv0of75 wrote

If they don't understand the concept of it, dogs are still able to associate humans with security and food. And I guess shooting paintballs can be considered as teaching, although it sounds brutal.

We still know very little about how brains work, and determining how intelligent an animal is can be a bit difficult.

And keep in mind, these results can vary wildly in the same group. A common example is crows and ravens. I think studies have even concluded that they are actually semi conscious, although we dont know to which extent. Some unfortunate people have even found themselves harassed by groups of them for years after hurting one of them.

Dont fuck with them, I guess.


Severe-Cookie693 t1_iv2czud wrote

What does the mirror test actually test?

I've made eye contact with my pets in the mirror, they didn't get freaked out that there where 2 of me.

Dogs also don't go by vision as much as smell.

The test is also based on ego, which is not the same thing as intelligence.


newbikesong t1_iv2f1ft wrote

You put a paint or some other patch onto the animal's forehead and show them a mirror. If they realize themselves in the mirror, they will touch themselves in that spot.

Very few animals seem to notice themselves in mirrors. Great apes including humans, elephants, dolphins, some birds and very few fish.

Dogs never pass the test. We tend to humanize them but they are not really smart animals. They seem to have no capacity of conceptualization.


Hetterter t1_iv0ki79 wrote

They can learn to associate humans with the pain yes


evillman t1_iv0f47l wrote

Isn't disliking humans good for nature?


AltruisticTrade720 t1_iuy1qbn wrote

You've been watching "The Grey" too much.


AltruisticTrade720 t1_iuygjh5 wrote

Well that's about tiger's, don't think it applies to wolves....but what would I know living and hunting the northern fortest of Saskatchewan, Canada.


mattstorm360 t1_iuyirf9 wrote

There is also that elephant. Not a wolf but yeah.


Gyoza-shishou t1_iuzpiok wrote

Pretty sure wolves and tigers have about the same size brain? Shit domesticated cats have less object permanence than dogs iirc


Snizl t1_iv0cxgh wrote

Usually pack animals are smarter than solitary ones, so id expect wolves to be smarter than tigers.


trivial_vista t1_iv1hlyr wrote

Exactly dogs also are much smarter as cats, no idea where the "Cats are smarter as dogs!" come's from


semnotimos t1_ivbxwd4 wrote

Dogs are smarter than cats, but this is probably a consequence of cats' success as solitary hunters- they never had to reason more than "sneak up and pounce." You'd be hard-pressed to find an animal better at killing than a cat of a given size range.


trivial_vista t1_ivc2sco wrote

that is true, not in a good way as cat's here eat up pretty much anything that flies, would it only be rodents it's all good to me (they also grab them rest assure)


Venemao73 t1_iv3yws7 wrote

You know probably a lot more about wolves than us Dutchies, since we’ve got them back pretty recently. There must be around 100 wild wolves in the Netherlands and they keep attacking our sheep and other cattle. FYI: The Netherlands is the size of Vancouver Island but we are with 18 million.


Aderondak t1_iuz46ny wrote

Wolves do have a 100% chance to retaliate on hunt, so that makes sense. Just make sure there's some chunks in the way for partial cover.


squashkbc t1_iuzzgh7 wrote

The point is to make them afraid of humans. These wolves are not really tame, they're unafraid of humans, which means that they are more likely to attack humans. This can be especially dangerous for children.


attorneyatslaw t1_iuwz2tj wrote

This is as poorly thought out as the previous plan to shoot cheeseballs at them to make them more tame.


ThymeNspace t1_iux3dwm wrote

And they're probably going to become really good at Capture the Flag.


Mr_Paper t1_iuy1n7d wrote

The potential for an annual, televised game of CtF between a team of people and a team of wolves is making me think we're in the best possible timeline.


Josh-Baskin t1_iuy0coa wrote

Like with anything, you just have to find the right cheeseball/paintball balance.


Lubberworts t1_iuybzc2 wrote

>This is as poorly thought out as the previous plan to shoot cheeseballs at them edam to make them more tame.

Fixed it.


bigbangbilly t1_iuzhwc7 wrote

Well the alternate timeline plan involving Rocky Mountain Oysters is going/got weird.

You know what, alternate presents tenses is kinda weird like how side voting compares to up and down votes


MacaroniEast t1_iuxc3n7 wrote

In other news: Dutch wolves confused as to why their prey keeps managing to avoid them!


Chasman1965 t1_iux5dsc wrote

It's a pretty good idea. Associate humans with negative things, and they will avoid humans. This is the exact opposite of feeding them.


Amiiboid t1_iux9xw6 wrote

My state department of environmental protection recommends shooting bears in residential areas with paintballs for the same reason. It’s harmless but annoying, so they will go someplace less annoying.


the_clash_is_back t1_iuxpf6w wrote

Its like shining a spot light on the meth head that’s pooping in your lane way. Harmless, annoys them, they poop on the next street over


semiomni t1_iuxsg5z wrote

And the end result of them becoming too comfortable around humans is them being put down, which makes a few paintballs seem a lot more merciful.


Gyoza-shishou t1_iuzpvkw wrote

Wouldn't we just be redoing dogs anyway if we keep feeding them? I don't see the harm in that?


Snizl t1_iv0d403 wrote

Well there is a reason most civilized countries are pretty keen on not having stray dogs around.


Vasiand t1_iuyegit wrote

Today in Bored Scientists Fed Up Of Curing Diseases


GetlostMaps t1_iuxlhbd wrote

Perfectly reasonable, scientifically backed, not oniony at all.


WantedMan61 t1_iuxe2d6 wrote

I'm just shocked to discover that there are wolves in The Netherlands.


Xaphhire t1_iv05lnz wrote

They've only come back a few years ago and are now considered settled again. But they're not afraid of humans and have been approaching them in the natural parks where the wolves live. This is how dogs happened, lol.


squashkbc t1_iuzzk6t wrote

From the article:

> According to a report published in June there are around 20 adult wolves living in the country.


Prinzka t1_iuyl6hu wrote

Yeah last I heard they'd gone extinct a while ago


humanesadness t1_iv0j31f wrote

Since like 5 years. They used to be hunted down around the 1960’s i believe but they migrated back 5 years ago


QuestionableAI t1_iuybalv wrote

If they think of humans as potentially dangerous, wild animals will usually skirt any potential contact.


sc_surveyor t1_iuyk151 wrote

When we were kids a buddy shot his granddaddy’s prized bull in the balls with an acorn. That bull became immediately and permanently un-tame.


CowFckerReloaded t1_iuxn589 wrote

Why would they want the wolves to be less tame?


TheVentingMachine11 t1_iuz3grx wrote

Don't know the specifics with Netherlands but for as long as they're wild they will depend on themselves for food and that means they'll hunt more which also means diversifying wildlife more.


Duracted t1_iv0vyja wrote

Wolves have a natural fear of humans leading them to avoid them. A few years ago, norwegian researchers published a study of all known wolf attacks over the past few decades, which found that after rabies habituated wolves (i.e. wolves used to humans/wolves fed by humans) are responsible for most of the attacks on humans. So deterring wolves is actually one of the best ways to prevent human-wolf conflict. Especially since rabies is virtually eradicated in the Netherlands.


CowFckerReloaded t1_iv35ote wrote

This really sheds more light on the root of the issue, I wouldn’t have guessed previously cordially human-interacting wolves were more likely to attack.


Bored-Viking t1_iv0atom wrote

Dutch entering the conversation.. Real reason here, we are getting sick of all the vague/long distance social media post of people claiming to have spotted a wolve (there were no wolves in the Netherlands for the last 300 years up until 4 years ago.)

So by tagging them with red/green/blue dots we finally know which ones are wolves and which ones are just big dogs

So yes Aunt Karen, stop sending us pictures from the neighbours chihuahua climing that you don't dare to go into the backyard because of the wolve


TaischiCFM t1_iv19nxa wrote

I was kinda wondering this. I couldn't imagine there were wolves in the Netherlands.

Imagine headlines like: 'Zeeland in terror after a pack of Zaamslag wolves seen prowling reformed churches'


artaig t1_iuycasn wrote

That what I said we should do in Spain. Newer generations of wolves and bores are loosing their fear of humans. Spain has the biggest wolf to area ratio in the NW; they are attacking dogs and other animals next to the house while people are around. Either we scare them or soon they will start taking on kids and the elderly.


mortalwombat- t1_iuyeg1m wrote

I live in an area with a bear problem. A wildlife vet I know makes a really strong case for hazing bears.


MrValdemar t1_iuz9yhd wrote

A) How do you get the bears to drink that much tequila?

B) How do you convince the bear to put the pillow case on its head?

C) Who in the hell is going to get close enough to a shit faced bear wearing a pillowcase so they can smack it on the ass with the cricket paddle?


thoth1000 t1_iuy2aaj wrote

I agree, that dull grey fur is pretty bland.


Queen_Cheetah t1_iuy98sv wrote

...I mean, I guess the colors will make them look less 'lame'- or was that not a typo?


dogsledonice t1_iuyqqrk wrote

Pretty sure my dad did this to me when I was a teen, same reason


bsthisis t1_iuzh9es wrote

Domestication... 2!


SirGuelph t1_iv0c1vl wrote

> It is hoped that it will also encourage wolves to stay at least 30m (100ft) away from people.

Why won't the wolves practice social distancing like we ask? They're just not reasonable!


Pudding_Hero t1_iuycpc6 wrote

The article said there were only 20 adult wolves left in the Netherlands. That’s pretty fucking rude considering


Stravven t1_iuyfh41 wrote

Between somewhere around 1880 and 2019 we didn't have wolves in the Netherlands at all. So their population is growing.


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Gamingenterprise t1_iv0chus wrote

for context the people in charge of the forest (de Veluwe) hate the wolves and tamed them on purpose so they would come to close to people (so they would bite someone) the same people have been lobying for years that they can shoot the wolves (with actual bullets) so imported sheep wont get eaten by the wolves

the wolves are so tame they have been seen coming as close as 3 meters away from people (not bothering or being aggressive but still to close for the safety of people who walk through de Veluwe)


i hate that they have to take this option but i do understand


but I'm more in favor of just putting the people in charge on trial and leaving the wolves alone and to stop those basters from feeding them


44035 t1_iv1c7rk wrote

We're going to make them super angry?


arcxjo t1_iv1csbb wrote

One day, with the benefit of hindsight, we'll wonder why this plan went any possible way but swimmingly.


BrightLilyYT t1_iv236i5 wrote

Ah yes, because making wolves kill humans is a good idea /j


Guaire1 t1_ivecfmc wrote

Wolves are likier to kill humans if they are "tamed", since they get closer to them, this way they will keep their distance


DebiMoonfae t1_iuz121v wrote


How about you just don’t t feed then and you shoo them away when they come close?

Paint balls fucking hurt, assholes.


EarthenEyes t1_iuzshre wrote

Don't. Don't ever do that. You leave those wolves alone and let them be good boys


KittenKoder t1_iv053pp wrote

In this case it could mean the difference between their extinction or survival. People are stupid, very stupid, and empathy wins a lot against intellect.

If the wolves are all tamed, then other wildlife will over populate, really fast. Things like rats, that carry deadly diseases.


wwarnout t1_iux6yoj wrote

How about we use paint balls to shoot people that come up with such dumbass ideas?


GetlostMaps t1_iuxl81j wrote

Because this is quite a reasonable idea with solid science behind it.


golem501 t1_iuy0e2k wrote

It would have been nice to shoot the "nature loving photographers " who flocked to take pictures. I don't think anyone fed the wolves but they did show them but to be scared.


the_clash_is_back t1_iuxpmyl wrote

Because this is a good idea and often used for animal conservation.

The wolves associate humans with food right now, so you shoot them with paint balls ( painful but harmless) they now associate humans with getting a blue butt. They avoid humans.


HeWhoMakesBadComment t1_iuz7qa1 wrote

I bet I wouldn't have to dig too far into your post history to find you saying "trust the science"


Ragtime-Rochelle t1_iux36ht wrote

Yeah let's shoot paintballs at this apex predator capable of biting through a moose femur to solve this terrible problem of it being too tame and friendly to me. Dumb.

The idiots are taking over.


Lackof_Creativity t1_iux4ugq wrote

everything you wrote before "Dumb" does not provide any support for your final conclusion...

are you saying shooting paintballs at these wolves will make them MORE tame??


Ragtime-Rochelle t1_iux577d wrote

No. I'm saying do not shoot the wolves unless they are attacking you. Being too tame is not a good reason. If you so this you deserve to get mauled both for your stupidity and being cruel to animals.


gandraw t1_iuxfp65 wrote

If wild animals get too tame, they start foraging near towns and will eventually attack either farm animals or people. You have to make them afraid of people so they stick to the forests and wild deer.


Lackof_Creativity t1_iuxfguz wrote

you sound quite dismissive. perhaps you can look into the topic of conservation a little even for 2 minutes. both for animals and plants there are some measures that humans undertake that (maybe) at first seem slightly counter-intuitive yet are appropriate to save species and promote a healthy ecosystem.

so for example with your pleasant example of me being mauled, what do you think then happens? yes. then you have wolves going up on the priority list of things that wildlife keepers are meant to start killing. oh and then the number of wolves goes down. and so then you (with your intelligence) have contributed to the number of wolves decreasing in the wild. and oh wow. you managed to achieve the opposite of what you actually wanted.

does that sound particularly smart now? i hope you understand that paintballs may be better than actual bullets....


Stravven t1_iuyfnmi wrote

We don't have moose here.

The wolves are too tame, and at the moment associate people with being fed. If they use paintballs it will teach them to stay away from humans.


JustLikeAmmy t1_iuwydog wrote


Come on, man! Tell these people how totally okay it is these natural predators are friendly! Maybe they could use a banjo instead of paintballs? /s


weauxbreaux t1_iuwyvla wrote

Wow... obsessed with me much?


JustLikeAmmy t1_iuwzgva wrote

No but I definitely remembered how stupid you were lmao


weauxbreaux t1_iux2xp8 wrote


Then you mention me in a thread that proves the whole point I was making (that a predator can become unafraid of humans for reasons other than being directly fed by them or being rabid).

Get over yourself and get a life.


JustLikeAmmy t1_ive4dq0 wrote

Who said anything about directly fed? I said fed, not directly fed. Getting food from humans even indirectly is STILL BEING FED BY HUMANS AND CAUSES WILD ANIMALS TO BECOME TAME. This is a fact and all the downvotes and banjos in the world aren't going to make that fact incorrect (keep em coming too i got the fake internet points to spare), and you know what? That's ok! It's ok to be mistaken bud, happens to the best of us.


weauxbreaux t1_ivey76k wrote

This person did:

Which is what I was countering and arguing against, the whole time. That particular statement does imply that the people in the house are directly giving food to the fox.

I never argued against the concept that you are stating, in fact I stated the same thing ( . So what are you going off about? Aren't we in agreement here? "Wild animals tend find extra food in places humans live in, and when the humans behave in a non threatening manner the wild animals become unafraid of humans." You will find no arguments from me there.

I'm not concerned about reddit karma but I am a bit concerned about your well being. Are you doing ok? You are chasing around a random stranger on the internet to start/continue an argument about semantics, weeks after our initial interaction. We are in basic agreement but you so desperately need to be "right" and need someone else to be "wrong" that you are doing this. Find some friends, find a hobby, find a therapist.


Severe-Cookie693 t1_iuyf5m3 wrote

This is pathetic. Why are you trying to start a fight with a stranger on the internet?

Honestly, and this is a question for you to ask yourself, not answer: why did you make this post?