kamrelim t1_iwz3moh wrote
He's not wrong, but Western Europe, not to mention the US that achieved its position by hundreds of years of genocide and exploitation of slave power are not ready for this conversation.
Obtuse_Symposium t1_iwzn011 wrote
So, to make up for the transgressions of our ancestors (as a collective), current generations should continue to endorse slave labor and human rights violations?
kamrelim t1_iwzol3q wrote
You enjoy the benefits of "transgressions of your ancestors" every day, you shouldn't run away from responsiblity for its consequences.
Yadokargo t1_iwzr0ip wrote
In what world is not wanting to support ongoing slavery "running away the from responsibility of its consequences"? That's like, people confronting that shit. You know? The straight up opposite of running away?
kamrelim t1_iwzrdjo wrote
You're confronting someone who does 0,000001% of horrific shit that your nation did, start with yourself maybe?
Obtuse_Symposium t1_iwzyltr wrote
You know that you can simultaneously try to address historical inequality/grievances in your own country while also protesting the atrocious things that other countries are currently doing, right?
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
kamrelim t1_ix00r9x wrote
Ok, do you know that the people who decided to go and work in atrocious conditions in Qatar decided to do so because it was attractive, in comparision to what they could expect in their own countries? Why do you think their countries are in such incredibly bad situtation, that people decide to emigrate from them to work in Qatar?
Obtuse_Symposium t1_ix07fi9 wrote
So because they hoped to make more money for their families back home (which is why most of them are there), they should be allowed to be detained against their will, be unfairly compensated for work, and be subjected to dangerous/deadly working conditions? Oh yeah, that's cool dude.
And for the record, I've been to Qatar and have talked to some of these workers. They make up the vast majority of the population there.
I can tell you that none of them liked the fact that their employers were allowed to confiscate their visas and hold them, or bar them from trying to find employment with someone else.
I was there when that earthquake hit Nepal a number of years ago, and I ended up loaning out my phone so some of the Nepali workers could check on their families. One of them told me that was the first time he'd heard their voices in years.
Does that sound like living/working conditions that we should be supporting?
kamrelim t1_ix0a3pb wrote
No. What I mean is the fact that the modern Western civilization is responsible for the horrible conditions present in the countries where modern slave labor comes from, and collectively, as society who benefited from horrible crimes that those societies were victim to, we do nothing to make up for hundreds of years of injustice and exploitation, we merely protest when someone tries to repeat our "get rich at others' expense" scheme.
Obtuse_Symposium t1_ix0f98j wrote
Oh for pete's sake.
I'm always quick to point out the role that western colonization has played upon many countries and its after effects. But if you think that it's the sole cause of the world's problems, or even of the problems in the countries that it has directly touched, then you need to read more history, western or otherwise.
More importantly, if you think that having a troubled history precludes everyone that currently lives in any of those countries from having a voice in the global community, as if it's some sort of deranged penance, then you're being ridiculous.
Like I said, we can denounce bad things while also admitting that our forebears did some fucked up stuff.
kamrelim t1_ix0v9gr wrote
As long as the West won't collectively, in a structured way, compensate for exploiting and destroying whole nations and societies, for hundreds of years of cruelty, for literally inspiring hitler to try to implement the Generalplan Ost by the effectiveness and scale of the American ethnic clensing and enslavement of tens of millions of people - it's nothing but pure hypocrisy.
Obtuse_Symposium t1_ix1n6cc wrote
Alright well, I've done a lot of volunteer work for vulnerable communities, and I'm personally in favor of something like reparations since I know that slavery and genocide have generational impacts, but I also don't control the government or what we get to vote on.
So why would I ever feel like I shouldn't be able to condemn Qatar for modern-day slavery?
Because "the West", which is a collection of countries that have historically been at odds with each other until the last 40-50 years, hasn't come together as one group to say that it's sorry? That's ridiculous.
kamrelim t1_ix3qltw wrote
By the same logic you should condemn and boycott every institution and event organised by UK, the US, Canada, Belgium, France, Germany or The Netherlands. All of those countries are built on blood of slaves, the existence of some of them in a prosperous form is only possible thanks to extermination of the whole populations and ethnicities. None of them, except Germany in the small part, have even tried to reimburse the harm they have done in the last few hundred years. But you can’t do that, that’s where you come from.
Kronoswarp t1_iwzgmyl wrote
Unlike Qatar that never had slavery lol.
lucysalvatierra t1_ix04pfy wrote
We've been having this conversation for a while, not sure who isn't ready for it.
Gamingenterprise t1_ix08fha wrote
(Looks up congo slave trade)
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