OmegaBean t1_j6sluo4 wrote
Reply to comment by k1lk1 in New Yorkers witnessed more homelessness, encampments during Mayor Adams’ first year by Nscience
As a mental health clinician whose job it was to go into the shelters every day, I don’t fucking blame them. They’re often filthy, staffed by people who DGAF, and dangerous. I’ve had clients assaulted, I’ve had clients’ children assaulted, what little possessions people have are stolen all the time. In my current job I work in a school and I counsel students who live in them, nothing has changed. People need to understand that many homeless do not want these services because they are awful. And they are awful because the plutocrats who run this city would rather throw cash at the police instead of spending it on ensuring that people can have a decent standard of living while they get back on their feet.
Grass8989 t1_j6sm75o wrote
Sounds like we should have a strike system and have harsh penalties for people who commit nefarious acts in shelters.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6t1v7j wrote
Because of the vulnerable population they should serve, crimes committed inside and near shelters should be automatically upgraded in their severity.
Distributing controlled drugs near a shelter should be treated as severely as doing that near or inside a school.
co_matic t1_j6sqcep wrote
We should provide better conditions for homeless people in the first place instead of adding rules and punishments to the existing awful system.
throws_rocks_at_cars t1_j6st4r0 wrote
/>you create normal thing
/>someone ruins it
/>"Why did you create such a bad thing? >:("
​
With $5000 a month per bed (far higher than average NY rent), the shelters are almost certainly nicer, or were at one point, than sleeping in a tent in a parking lot. The nature of addiction, mental illness, and desperation made the shelters far worse than they were when they were built.
The solution for this is a strike system with the final strike being institutionalization. It is not fair to shelter-residents who want to put their lives back together to also have to fare against criminally insane, chemically-addicted thieves and assaulters.
co_matic t1_j6sv54u wrote
Shelters were never a "good" thing. They are the bare minimum solution created by a society that believes all homeless are idle criminals who deserve nothing and should be made to disappear.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6t5gzk wrote
Bare minimum at luxury costs.
The only thing worse than this was the city of SF running a homeless encampment in a parking lot.
They were paying 5k per month per tent to a "homelessness NGO" who was operating that parking lot (3 meals a day, security and portable washrooms)
co_matic t1_j6t63hi wrote
Check out the salaries for the principals at Project Renewal.
drpvn t1_j6t90ve wrote
High executive salaries at these nonprofits are gross but they aren’t why costs are out of control. You could eliminate executive pay entirely and not make a dent in what the city pays.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6tm437 wrote
It's probably stuff like this on every level:
Those shelters also provides "other services". For example, imagine how they bill health services for homeless people who lacks any health coverage.
I wouldn't be surprised if a typical shelter-provided "health care check-in" bills the city $400 for a 3 min consultation.
th3guitarman t1_j6tglq8 wrote
You people see big number and froth at the mouth. When have you ever known money set aside for something actually go to their intended target? Wasn't there a big stink about the PPP loans cuz all the large corps sucked up all the money?
And you think the homeless people in these shelters are caked up?
Have you ever spoken to a homeless person? Or do you just read articles written by other heartless assholes?
koreamax t1_j6tvjif wrote
Two things can be wrong at once.
th3guitarman t1_j6u1phr wrote
Yeah, but if we ignore the corruption, i dont feel as bad for also wanting to be corrupt.
IloveSeaFoood t1_j6suxyd wrote
But it’s the homeless that are ruining the conditions of the shelters. Nothing said in the post above signaled to me that they had shitty facilities or no heat, or no food.
No, their complaint was that their psycho roommates were making life difficult by stealing and being violent. So how does throwing more money at the issue solve it. Unless you want to bulldoze market rate housing for homeless shelters so less of them share spaces?
[deleted] t1_j6w1884 wrote
[removed]
WickhamAkimbo t1_j6tl5ot wrote
> ve had clients assaulted, I’ve had clients’ children assaulted, what little possessions people have are stolen all the time.
Nice use of passive voice as we all pretend that it isn't other homeless people that make them dangerous. If you want to make the shelters safe, put mentally ill homeless in asylums, drug addicted homeless in rehab, and criminal homeless in jail... But the same people saying we don't pay enough for homeless refuse to force people into badly needed treatment.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6tukc8 wrote
Same people who complain cops keep playing candy-crush, are also the same people who think it's okay for cops to keep arresting the same individuals dozens of times... like a real life candy-crush game.
TarumK t1_j6snqhs wrote
Wait is it true that they're spending 5k a month per bed? In that case how is it underfunded? It seems like the dangerousness must be a result of there being dangerous people staying in the shelters? What is the solution to that?
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6szup9 wrote
>Wait is it true that they're spending 5k a month per bed?
I was ball parking it and being charitable.
For example, take this new 19 Debevoise Avenue (Brooklyn) shelter contract: https://a856-cityrecord.nyc.gov/RequestDetail/20221129105
It's $467,334,567.00 for 200-beds for 33 years. Open spaces packed with beds and shared bathrooms..
Result: $5900 per bed per month.
Project Renewal is the same operator who runs the shelter in midtown where a woman was stabbed last month (https://nypost.com/2022/12/17/27-year-old-woman-stabbed-to-death-at-nyc-womens-shelter/)
newestindustry t1_j6trd1r wrote
Wait, so you just took that number and divided it by the number of beds in the shelter and years? What about these other aspects of the project:
-557 homes of affordable housing
-Community facility space
-Outdoor open spaces
-A health clinic
-A senior center
-A workforce development center
-Cafe
Some extremely fuzzy math there. Really dishonest.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6trq3w wrote
>Some extremely fuzzy math there. Really dishonest.
Those are all separate being developed by other entities.
The awarded contract of $467M was just for "Shelter FacilitIES for Hmlss SINGLE ADULTS" (that's how the contract title is spelled out, I kid you not)
I understand this is hard to believe. Because it's too stupid to be true, right?
newestindustry t1_j6tu5ca wrote
But it's a massive construction project, you are dishonestly saying that NYC pays $5k per bed for homeless shelters, which isn't true
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6tximi wrote
For this Brooklyn one that's $5.9k per bed per month for the duration of the contract.
For the E 45th Shelter, where a woman was murdered by stabbing in December, the city was paying $3.2k per month per bed last year.
They renewed their contract for $4.9k per bed per month ($30,585,745.00 for 130 beds for 4 years: https://a856-cityrecord.nyc.gov/RequestDetail/20220729109). What's worse: the city actually owns that building! Project Renewal is just providing Shelter "services"...
Same company, with a $5.3k per bed per month 39-year long contract https://a856-cityrecord.nyc.gov/RequestDetail/20220127107
That's just one company out of many deserving more oversight: https://www.nyc.gov/site/dhs/shelter/providers/providers.page
newestindustry t1_j6u6upy wrote
All of those shelters are also involved in major construction projects, do those dollar figures include capital costs? Those links don't give anything but one number.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6u7vaf wrote
If only someone could review those contracts.
Capital costs or not, nothing here makes sense.
Why should the city pay for a NGO to buy the land and construct the building, and when the contract is over, they can just own it?
Besides, the E 45th building is already there, and it’s owned by the city.
newestindustry t1_j6ua4ol wrote
You can't pretend the capital costs don't matter, these are new high rises in Midtown. We all agree there is a lot of bloat on all state/city contracts here, I agree that it sucks and benefits the wrong people. But these organizations reduce the suffering of the most vulnerable, hated people in our society. I recognize that most people here don't care about that.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6v0bjj wrote
All good and valid points.
But remember that only 1 out of 5 accepted going to a shelter.
With the same budget the city could be offering a lot better quality services and housing.
4 out of 5 whose suffering are not really being reduced.
Simply offering more of the same (or locking shitty solutions into decade-long contracts) ain’t going to really move the needle. It only keeps draining the city’s resources away from more effective solutions.
th3guitarman t1_j6tg4ol wrote
The ability of random suits and profit seekers to suck up funds on the way to the people who need it doesn't equate to an effort being well funded.
TarumK t1_j6tqlv6 wrote
I mean yeah, but there's a difference between something not getting done because it's under-funded vs. because the money getting stolen in corruption. They're different things with different solutions.
th3guitarman t1_j6ttqpt wrote
Yes. I don't know why people (not you necessarily), in a system so obviously hostile to the poor and homeless, don't consider for half a second that the shelters could be run atrociously
IncomingBlessings t1_j6x3qpu wrote
It’s not underfunded, the funds are mismanaged
DelTeaz t1_j6tadlx wrote
Lol only in nyc can you spend 60k per homeless person and still not have good services.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j6tmzer wrote
It can always get worse.
SF infamously spent 60k per tent at a homeless encampment. https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/S-F-officials-want-15-million-for-tent-sites-16269998.php
NYC should change course before we get there.
koreamax t1_j6tw1mp wrote
I grew up in Sf and hope nyc doesn't become like that. The reason it can be so hyper liberal is that you have to be rich to live there. All the super progressives are so generous with their ideology because the thought of needing public assistance themselves never enters the equation. It's just something to pat themselves on the back. They don't care HOW these programs are run because their empathy is fake and they feel above it
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