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felixrojo t1_j7j3aoa wrote

Reply to comment by tbs222 in FDNY ranks in 'turmoil' after commissioner demotes chiefs, high-ranking officials step down by nyujoe

There was a since deleted comment asking about her ability to serve as Fire Commissioner given her lack of firefighting experience.

This has come up quite a bit in light of this story and I think some of this rhetoric is because she is a woman with leadership and governmental experience who is now in charge of a department that, at least on the fire suppression side, is predominantly male. This wasn't a broad based concern when either Howard Safir or Nicholas Scopetta served as Fire Commissioners (neither of them was a firefighter either).

Also, she didn't just come in off of the street and become the commissioner, she's been working for the department for almost 9 years in management roles.

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Prime_Exposures t1_j7sd0al wrote

It has nothing to with her being female, nor is is it solely about her lack of experience as a firefighter. It is possible to be an effective manager without having the same experience as those you lead. But a good leader would rely on the experience and input of their staff (the Chief of Department and other chiefs in this case). What a good leader would NOT do is is go behind their staff’s back and make changes to the personnel who work directly for that staff. It’s leadership 101, which she obviously missed.

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FormerKarmaKing t1_j7k6ai2 wrote

No doubt there is some sexism at play in the response.

But if her credentials are solely being a professional managers - and not being “one of us” - then unexpectedly demoting three top members of the in-group at once and also publicly painting them as uncaring about their subordinates at the same time is terrible professional management / internal politics.

As much as anything, firing (or demoting people) is as much about how everyone left perceives you as a leader. When it must be done, it should be evident to everyone that it had to happen. Coming off as capricious when playing with other peoples careers / cash flow is going to cause big problems, as it has here.

Edit: lol at downvotes for suggesting that publicly humiliating people is bad management. Might be good politics but it’s bad bad management.

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lovelyangelgirl t1_j7jnf1q wrote

But I think that’s valid though. You should have some firefighting experience as commissioner.

Imagine the Chief of Defense but with no military background. Makes no sense.

It’s not about gender, it’s about experience.

I feel like she’s projecting on to others.

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ChrisFromLongIsland t1_j7k5rkf wrote

The secretary of defense of the US many times has not served in the military.

https://smartpolitics.lib.umn.edu/2014/12/02/ashton-carter-would-become-7th/

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Prime_Exposures t1_j7sdz6g wrote

But what would happen if the Secretary of Defense arbitrarily removed senior army generals without conferring with the Sec of Army or the Chief of Staff of the Army?? There’s a chain of command and it works both ways.

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lovelyangelgirl t1_j7kitnq wrote

Shouldn’t that be a prerequisite though?

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hjablowme919 t1_j7kmvxe wrote

Not really. In positions like that, it's about decision making. The people who work for you provide you all of the information they can about a particular issue, or issues, and you use that information to make decisions.

If she was in management in the NYFD for almost a decade, she knows what the problems are and what needs to be addressed. What she needs from the people who work for her and suggestions as to how best to address those issues. From her speech, it doesn't look like she is getting that support.

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Slggyqo t1_j7k4nf3 wrote

The President of the United States is the Commander in Chief of the US armed forces. He is not required to be a veteran.

Franklin’s D Roosevelt, one of Americas most famous wartime presidents, did not serve. Most Presidents who did serve were not senior positions, i.e. anything remotely close to being commander in chief.

Biden, Trump, Obama, and Clinton did not serve.

The secretary of defense—basically next in responsibility under the President—must be out of military service for at least seven years to be appointed to the position.

This system of civilian control over the military is the global standard.

“On the ground” experience as a management official in a large organization is just a merit badge to make someone a more appealing candidate. It has little bearing on their actual job, because no senior official can actually have a useful working knowledge of everything their organization does.

It’s not completely pointless—your public image being a pretty important part of being a public figure—but it’s not a critical requirement.

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Dont_mute_me_bro t1_j7k7ov2 wrote

A school principal who hasn't taught in a classroom has to overcome suspicions of being out of touch from the rank and file. The same is true for a lieutenant in the military. There's a culture in departments. You may not like the fact or the culture in general, but it's true.

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Slggyqo t1_j7l065p wrote

There is a culture, but I agree with everything you said but it’s not particularly relevant.

A school principal or lieutenant in the military is a MUCH more tactical role than that of a department commissioner. They are themselves boots on the ground personnel.

The commissioner of the NYFD (and the NYPD) is a civilian administrator, deliberately separate from the department, whose job is set strategic priorities with the advice of their senior officers.

Regarding culture, there are as many reasons to have leadership from outside of the culture as there are to have leadership beholding to the existing culture.

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Dont_mute_me_bro t1_j7lmc5k wrote

They're about to have no leadership. Top dogs are stepping down and there's no one keen in replacing them according to the article. How is that helping anyone but the egomaniac Commissioner?

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[deleted] t1_j7j9ft2 wrote

You know why it’s predominantly male? Because 99% of women cannot carry a 200 lbs person in a fire. Let the women pass the same physical test and we are cool! Also most girls don’t say they want to be a fireman when they grow up.

Fire doesn’t discriminate based on genders

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AgainstMedicalAdvice t1_j7kvuui wrote

So why can't a woman work in a managerial role? Very likely her job will not entail moving people.

Also, I wonder if more women could be firefighters if Americans weren't such fatties :(

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