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_TheCommish_ t1_j7md7al wrote

Reply to comment by _Maxolotl in 'Surprise' in Canada as NYC buses migrants to border by esporx

If they didn’t wanna be hot potatoes they coulda stayed home. They are economic migrants not asylum seekers.

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Pushed-pencil718 t1_j7mvlsm wrote

Exactly this. They voluntarily came here. They aren’t contributing to this country and they have a home country to return to if they don’t like the way things work here.

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spicytoastaficionado t1_j7nknmn wrote

>They are economic migrants not asylum seekers.

Yup.

There is a pretty narrow criteria for what qualifies as legitimate asylum claims.

If you read any of the local reporting on migrant arrivals in NYC, you consistently see countries of origin such as Peru and Ecuador, and migrants themselves saying they are seeking work and a higher standard of living.

If that was a criteria for having a legitimate asylum claim, literally billions of people from around the world would have a right to asylum here.

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_Maxolotl t1_j7me197 wrote

I see the SI Live comments section has entered the chat.

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huunnuuh t1_j7mgrxy wrote

Canadian here. The majority who cross irregularly either withdraw their applications, or are denied refugee status. The large majority of applicants from certain countries (e.g. Nigeria or Mexico) are routinely denied. Refugee status is for people fleeing government persecution, not for poor people. The majority of the world is quite poor relative to Canada. Even if we were a far more generous people than we are in practice (quite stingy, really), we cannot realistically admit all of the people who want to move here because they come from impoverished countries.

Anyone can claim asylum in Canada. An American can try it if they want. Cross the border and present yourself to the nearest customs agent. You will get a government stipend of about $800 a month until you find a job, and some health care benefits... before being fast-track denied and deported.

Since we're a bureaucratic mess up here sometimes, it'll still take months. During which you can stay in Canada and get access to healthcare etc. And there's always the long-shot option that your claim of persecution, which is individually reviewed, might actually be accepted. If you can afford a plane ticket to the USA, and can cross over the Canadian border, then you can try this. Anyone can. That's what's being exploited.

There are some people fleeing persecution who would be refugees by Canadian law. We do accept quite a few of the border crossers. Chinese dissidents are a prominent source of refugees. Some people get desperate and will try anything anywhere they think they might be accepted. And Canada has a reputation as being accepting of refugees. An accurate one. Canadians are generally extremely pro-immigration, and we resettle more refugees permanently, than any other country in the world per capita. The government selects and brings tens of thousands of refugees from other parts of the world here, every year. But, bluntly, we prefer to do this on our terms.

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_TheCommish_ t1_j7mefwd wrote

This is not a “dumb conservative” take. What should happen to them? We don’t even have space for the current homeless population what’re we supposed to do with even more?

Why don’t you open your apartment up and let a family stay with you? The shelters are full, the hotels we use as shelters are full. They could freeze to death on the streets if that would make you feel better?

The humane option is sending them somewhere else where they can actually be taken care of.

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huebomont t1_j7mqvv6 wrote

We should build more housing, shelters, etc. We have plenty of resources we just don’t want to prioritize this.

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_TheCommish_ t1_j7mtjsa wrote

Nice to wish and dream but the reality is there is no place for them here. Better they live not in one of the most expensive cities in the world anyways.

Besides of all the things for this city to prioritize, i don’t think economic migrants are one of them.

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huebomont t1_j7mu5lk wrote

oh so you’re not really interested in solving the problem, my mistake!

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flightwaves t1_j7mun16 wrote

Even if we did those things we’d build it for the people already here. Not these folks.

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huebomont t1_j7mwro0 wrote

most new yorkers didn’t start out their lives here.

building new housing as a general concept is explicitly about new people coming in. if no one were coming in, a housing shortage wouldn’t develop. building housing helps everyone. you can’t do it for some people without affecting others, i don’t even know how that would work.

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flightwaves t1_j7mx68r wrote

Your lack of understanding is crazy. Even if you started building housing now, it would take years just to house our own homeless let alone new migrants. Stop letting your fantasy land cloud your judgement.

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huebomont t1_j7mxubq wrote

I completely understand how much housing we need. Which is why we should build it and should have been building it for decades. What are you arguing in favor of exactly?

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flightwaves t1_j7my2sn wrote

I’m arguing we should stop taking migrants. We don’t have the space for them now and won’t for years as we should prioritize our existing homeless population.

What are you arguing for? Keep bringing them in and housing them in $500 per night hotels?

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huebomont t1_j7mymv1 wrote

We’re not “bringing them in”. They’re coming here or being shipped here. I’m arguing for building housing (a long term solution) and expanding shelters (a short term one.)

We don’t need to house these people indefinitely for free but it’s ridiculous to say we don’t have the resources to provide infrastructure to give them a landing place for a week or two while they figure out their final landing place. These people aren’t coming here expecting free room and board for life, they have a plan and then some asshole in Texas ships them here and they don’t know where they are or how to get where they wanted to go. We can give them a place to regroup and also work on having enough housing so that they can afford the rent if they want to stay, along with everyone else who wants to live here.

If you think that’s fantasyland then I’m not sure what kind of positive vision for the city you possibly have because it really isn’t that imaginative.

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flightwaves t1_j7myu0l wrote

> These people aren’t coming here expecting free room and board for life, they have a plan and then some asshole in Texas ships them here and they don’t know where they are or how to get where they wanted to go.

Source...

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huebomont t1_j7myz6z wrote

dude, catch up on the news, starting with the article this whole comment section is about.

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flightwaves t1_j7mzjlx wrote

Nah you keep with the news. These people are making asylum claims but very few of them actually qualify for asylum. They're coming for work and to send money home which itself isn't a bad thing except we don't got the space to house them and we can't keep opening up shelters for them.

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th3guitarman t1_j7n8to1 wrote

What about all those empty office spaces that business owners are so desperate to fill with workers who want to stay home?

What about all the empty lots they left unlisted to keep rent prices high during and after the pandemic?

There is space right now, actually. Just no will.

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flightwaves t1_j7nb9my wrote

Okay but then you have to feed, provide medical care, give their kids room in our schools etc.. where does it end?

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th3guitarman t1_j7nexmp wrote

We should and could also do this for our own citizens.

Also, people do things. So, they would eventually join the local economy.

"Where does it end" they aren't the mouse you gave a cookie, they're other people.

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Cyril_Clunge t1_j7n6hwz wrote

Yeah, I arrived in New York to earn a living wage and not to be exploited.

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huebomont t1_j7n9qnq wrote

glad you made it here! don't pull up the ladder behind you.

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