marketingguy420 t1_jamk5n7 wrote
... one of those "how have we not done that already" type of deals
[deleted] t1_jamm4tl wrote
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marketingguy420 t1_jamqjl0 wrote
Well... I mean to be fair subsidized New York orthodox Jewish schools do suck ass, but it is their culture. I wouldn't say, uh, terrorism is Muslim "culture" per se. I see what you were going for but you went a little hard in the paint there lol
Double-Ad4986 t1_jams16q wrote
it was the "what we do isn't our business" like yeshivas aren't even part of all jewish culture—it's only ONE part of one particular jewish community.... just like the taliban/islamic extremeism is it's own culture within the larger muslim community. you can't say some of that stuff isn't culturally part of the larger community when it especially when it directly involves that religion & has so much support within certain countries in the middle east. the same way jewish people, especially those who run yeshivas, are just a cultural part of the larger jewish community. jewish & muslims aren't a monolith
LunchMasterFlex t1_jamzhh7 wrote
You can do whatever you want if you want it to be part of your religion, but you can’t take public money for it.
sulaymanf t1_jar1rxg wrote
Muslim here, and hold on there. Islamic extremism is NOT part of our culture and there’s no longer any Muslim-majority country that has friendly relations with the Taliban. You had a good point about yeshivas but you lost me when you made such a dumb comparison.
You could easily criticize the privilege seen in Jewish enclaves of NYC, such as gender segregated buses run by a private Jewish company that takes metrocards, without mindlessly bashing a different community.
numba1cyberwarrior t1_jau2ay5 wrote
Yeshivas are absolutely an intrinsic part of Jewish culture and putting Taliban/Islamic extremism in the same sentence is insulting.
Anyone who has studies Jewish history knows this as a fact, it doesn't belong to just one Jewish group Yeshiva's are part of the history of every single European Jew and many non European Jews. They originated as a means for Jews who were banned from education in many parts of Europe to form their own education. Yeshivas were hugely important in forming large parts of Jewish philosophy, ideologies, and culture. Im not just talking about religious development but Jewish socialist movements, Zionism, and Jewish enlightenment ideas. Its also likely that Yeshivas are what contributed to Jews being so educated and becoming one of the most disproportionally successful groups on earth.
Im not saying modern Yeshivas serve that same crucial role but pretending like Yeshivas are just some niche part of certain Jewish groups and are mostly for religious extremists shows a complete lack of knowledge of Jewish history and culture.
nonlawyer t1_jan1erc wrote
I mean religious schools shouldn’t be banned, and that’d be super unconstitutional anyway.
But religious schools shouldn’t receive a cent of taxpayer money, whether they’re teaching the kids Judaism or Islam or that Jesus rode a dinosaur or whatever.
jonnycash11 t1_jan30xg wrote
Yep. And the yeshivas take money to provide special Ed services and after school programs and redistribute the funds to themselves and their families. There was a story that said they had fleeced voters out of something like 2 billion dollars
[deleted] t1_jamsmfo wrote
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PiffityPoffity t1_jancd9s wrote
That’s not feasible if someone works in a newsroom that writes about religious issues. You may as well tell an accountant to avoid discussing taxes.
[deleted] t1_jancisb wrote
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PiffityPoffity t1_jandl7i wrote
OK. Clearly not the job for you, and no one with those requirements would ever be hired for it. Your personal comfort level isn’t all that relevant—the job necessitates commenting on religious practices. People who take the job take it knowing they may ruffle some feathers. Not everyone is completely conflict-averse.
Double-Ad4986 t1_jamthwo wrote
i literally didn't even comment about the jewish religion itself, only about the yeshiva & then they literally went into a rant. i didn't even know anyones religion in the room.... honestly they were just projecting at that point...
[deleted] t1_jamtyxt wrote
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Dudeman318 t1_jan3miz wrote
It sounds like OP didnt really have a choice. It sounds like it was a topic in a story they were going to cover.
marishtar t1_jan0ihi wrote
You don't see how commenting on religious schooling is commenting on religion?
Double-Ad4986 t1_janniqs wrote
i get it but i wasn't commenting on the religious aspect of the school. simply that they were violating a child's rights in this country by not teaching them basic reading and writing
fuckyouimin t1_jaoss0c wrote
First of all, the claim that they are not being taught reading and writing honestly sounds politically manufactured to me. If all of your classes are called "Religious Brainwashing" and you read the bible all day every day and write essays about it, you might not have "Reading" and "Writing" classes, but you sure as hell are able to read and write. (And it doesn't sound like Hasids are graduating school unable to read and write, are they? Historically speaking, their communities tend to prioritize education and work mainly white collar jobs.)
So you took the absence of reading and writing classes and compared that to terrorists learning to blow people up. And now you wonder why people are looking at you side eye...? Hmm.
Double-Ad4986 t1_jap625q wrote
omfg yall are SO obtuse. i wasnt comparing reading to terrorism i was saying leaving a culture to do as it pleases doesn't work out well. & it literally hasn't in these hasidic communities.
not to mention if you don't believe what the reports of these yeshivas are doing-you're just misinformed.
maybe if you believed in more critical thinking you'd be able to understand my original point.
fuckyouimin t1_jap8r5c wrote
So tell me... are kids from yeshivas graduating being unable to read and write? I'm more interested in actual evidence, not "critical thinking".
Double-Ad4986 t1_japci6j wrote
you better believe they are graduating that way. because they aren't being taught english—they're being taught hebrew only. maybe if you read a single article about it then you'd read that there's parents literally begging that their kids an education that teaches them english. many switch their kids to public school. the ones that don't get threatened by the community for wanting to.
[deleted] t1_japnatf wrote
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Chaserivx t1_jan8h7c wrote
Good for you though. People can be such egregious hypocrites, and increasingly they take advantage of what should be clean, progressive ideologies. For example, we should be moving away from anti-Semitism, but when a Jewish person unreasonably wields that accusation as a weapon in instances where it doesn't apply, it not only diminishes the power that should be inherent to the word "antisemitic", it actually moves us all backwards at the same time. Same shit with racism, sexism, homophobia... People hijack the fact that we are in a movement that empowers the progressive angles of these things and it just makes everything more obtuse. I grow tired of it.
Simbawitz t1_janx0tp wrote
TIL low English scores is the same thing as terrorism
Double-Ad4986 t1_jao3v8k wrote
it isn't and no one said it was?? i was commenting on the fact that they said what their religion does is no ones business. i could say the same thing ab cultures that commit FGM....like it's someone's business if it's affecting children negatively
edit: & it isnt just ab low test scores when they are physically beating children like this post states smart ass
[deleted] t1_jan0c64 wrote
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Art_Design_Money t1_japyu9o wrote
I’m for diverting some of the subsidies to driving schools for this community. The city would become measurably more safe.
NYCCentrist t1_jaq637y wrote
> then i preceded to ask if that same logic applied to muslims who commit terrorism
This is really neither an appropriate nor a relevant comparison. Many things you could choose, this wasn't it. Terrorism isn't a cultural practice, and suggesting as such is a bit damaging.
Double-Ad4986 t1_jaqqwwx wrote
first off neither is beating your kid like this article suggests they are doing in yeshivas.
& two
islamic extremism is a cultural practice tho. it isn't part of the muslim religion as a whole, 100% of course. but if it isn't cultural then what is it? economical? obviously not. it's roots are anti-western & involve changing the cultural zeitgeist of regions globally. that's just pure fact. & if we're talking about values, traditions, & societal norms— that's literally the definition of culture
terrorism in general isn't cultural of course that should go without saying for you people. but islamic extremism isn't just outright terrorism—there's a whole set of customs & culture that are attached to it. many muslim's even agree. i know plenty from the middle east that have studied & lived through islamic extremism.
NYCCentrist t1_jari5pn wrote
> that should go without saying for you people
Ummm, "you people?" Who are you referring to?
> islamic extremism is a cultural practice tho.
You used the word terrorism originally. Extremism is very different. More accurately, I would call it conservatism, with extremism common especially in social and family matters.
Look, you won't see me defending Islamic (or any other conservative religious practices) at all. But I'm just pointing out that the comparison you originally made around terrorism as a cultural practice was wildly inaccurate. There were many examples to use, this wasn't the right one.
Double-Ad4986 t1_jarrpdi wrote
you people referring to all the ones arguing my point- including you.
sulaymanf t1_jar2d5o wrote
> islamic extremism is a cultural practice tho
No it isn’t.
> but if it isn’t cultural then what is it?
POLITICAL, obviously.
> that’s just pure fact.
No that’s ignorant racism on your part. The vast majority of Muslims live in democracies worldwide, they celebrate holidays and they even elect women as presidents and prime ministers. Extremism is not part of culture; are you going to claim that Americans burning down mosques is part of our culture too?
> terrorism in general isn’t cultural of course that should go without saying
Then what are you trying to argue about?
Double-Ad4986 t1_jarrl05 wrote
i would 100% argue that white supremacy has deep seeds in American culture. without a doubt, i would argue that. is it representative of all Americans? obviously not. but there's a reason we have so much white supremacy and extremism going on in this country such as islamiphobia. & it 100% has to do with America's founding culture and it's roots.
also terrorism isn't just islamic extremism. that should go without saying but i guess i have to spell that out for you.
sulaymanf t1_jarwvr8 wrote
White supremacy is not the same as religious extremism. And white supremacy is part of American history but it’s hardly mainstream American culture like you’re trying to claim for terrorism for Muslims. You’re really trying to stretch to defend a blatantly bigoted position you made earlier. Is terrorism a part of Colombian culture? No.
Double-Ad4986 t1_jas9rm0 wrote
No, but guerilla groups are definitely a part of the country. which is distinct to that territory. & i never said any of those things are or have to be mainstream either.
sulaymanf t1_jasa1g1 wrote
Guerilla groups that have to hide are now part of the culture in your mind? That’s like saying pedophilia is a part of American culture since it exists despite universal condemnation.
randompittuser t1_janrh0y wrote
I mean, this is a misinformed view for people that love to be a victim of woke culture. The actual reason is that Hasidic Jews in NYC are a large voting bloc. Traditionally, going against them has been detrimental to re-election.
[deleted] t1_janrrt3 wrote
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ChurchPicnicFlareGun t1_jaurso2 wrote
No you said what they use against you to prevent reelection, they sugar coated it. Therefore, “misinformed.” It’s the backup when “anitsemetic” isn’t useful.
My comment is probably both with or with an /s.
knockatize t1_jamnfbh wrote
They did do it already, back in 1985.
What they don’t do is enforce it. So they’re going to pass a redundant bill, pat themselves on the back for their performative compassion, then go right back to not enforcing it.
ifiwereaplatypus t1_jan5z22 wrote
FYI, the legislature doesn’t enforce laws, the executive does.
PiffityPoffity t1_janc3d2 wrote
But it’s way easier to call the government useless and hypocritical if we pretend it’s an amorphous blob rather than a group of oft-competing interests with different levels of authority.
knockatize t1_jandcf6 wrote
The legislature is supposed to come up with an enforcement budget when they write law that’s going to mean extra work/personnel.
Ideally.
But if all they’re about is free publicity, they blow that part off and leave it to somebody else to figure out.
ifiwereaplatypus t1_jannc6u wrote
Enforcement budget…? Like a victim’s fund? I’m no specialist on this law but I think the executive presents a budget and the legislature approves it.
Spending bills originate in the house and is approved by the senate and sent up to the executive to create law but the authority to actually spend money from the fund is up to the executive, right?
Say Albany gives out money for this purpose to the various local municipalities (county, city, town, zone), and then their executive and/or enforcement agency has their own enforcement priorities… I’m not sure if the legislature can really be blamed here.
DadBodofanAmerican t1_jaqt0oc wrote
In this case enforcement is handled by the State Education Department, which is not an executive agency. NYSED is controlled by the Board of Regents who are appointed by the state Assembly.
Relevant_Slide_7234 t1_jan7j4k wrote
I thought for sure this was done already, because my boomer parents got hit in Catholic school, but in the 90s the nuns always said they weren’t allowed to hit us anymore.
_Maxolotl OP t1_jamm379 wrote
How have we not banned corporal punishment of children entirely, including at home, like most of the free world?
There have been tons of scientific studies about it and the conclusion is almost universally that it causes long term harm and doesn't improve behavior.
ChurchPicnicFlareGun t1_jaus11g wrote
It’s mostly won out but obviously empirical evidence and experience over generations is not always so easily discarded.
lakehop t1_jaoxp3j wrote
Indeed - how is that not already the case.
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