Proposed new MSGSubmitted by WatchesAndNYC t3_1251xg4 in nyc
Wintermute7 t1_je2hzx3 wrote
Not a bench in sight
switch8000 t1_je2l9v8 wrote
Shop till you drop.
anonyuser415 t1_je3i83n wrote
how to tell you do not have a person with a disability in your architectural firm
NCreature t1_je3tjzl wrote
Not at all the case. Architecture firms live and die by ADA guidelines. Those are hefty lawsuits if you design something not compliant. Fines can be in the millions. If there's nowhere to sit it's because the client, in this case the stakeholders on this project mandated it. Architects don't get to decide stuff like that.
doctor_van_n0strand t1_je4n7mf wrote
Yeah no. Architect here. ADA compliance is taken incredibly seriously. Oh, and it’s also the law. And it’s also a decent amount of what you get tested on for licensure. Seating availability though is not ADA regulated.
As NCreature mentioned, the lack of benches probably resulted from a conversation like this:
Architect: “we’re proposing seating along the main concourse” Client: “is it required? Is it ADA?” Architect: “No. Legally it’s not required and it’s not an ADA requirement, but as a major public space—“ Client: “Yeah no. Homeless people could sleep on them and scare away shoppers and ruin our image. We need those benches gone.”
fldsmdfrv2 t1_je54hqr wrote
That will not stop the homeless from sleeping where ever they want. Certainly hasn't stopped them now.
[deleted] t1_je4sojr wrote
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[deleted] t1_je5qnte wrote
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capt_jazz t1_je4jc2z wrote
Lol making sure the building meets ADA and life safety requirements is like 30% of a contemporary architect's job. I'm only kinda joking.....
The ADA details are often the first sheet on the drawing set after the title page, followed by egress path diagrams.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je4mt2h wrote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grand Central's main hall doesn't have benches. Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around? I get waiting for a train, but there's lounges for that.
brianvan t1_je4wyc9 wrote
Historically those main halls were nothing but benches for people waiting for trains to pull in / tracks to be announced. Including GCT
Pulling all the benches out (and designing for NO sitting space at all) is a fairly recent thing
iStealyournewspapers t1_je50yqs wrote
For as long as I can remember going to Grand Central (30ish years) there have never been benches in the main hall. Only place to ever sit would be downstairs in the food area, or the restaurants upstairs.
_allycat t1_je588xv wrote
Good example of the older waiting area style is Hoboken Terminal.
Tall-Ad5755 t1_jecob7k wrote
30th street in Phillys main hall is still full of benches…surprisingly not filled with homeless either.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je51ri8 wrote
I'm not sure about that. Here's that famous light picture
https://www.history.com/.amp/news/grand-central-terminal-facts
There's too many people coming and going to have benches in the way.
brianvan t1_je57thp wrote
GCT is so big that it had adjoining rooms for benches that were nearly as big as the main hall.
The old Penn Station was the same. It had numerous large rooms; one of them was a waiting hall that was not photographed as much as the entrance and concourse rooms.
In other stations and terminals, such as 30th Street Philadelphia and Hoboken, there are many benches in the main halls.
idontlikeanyofyou t1_je5dubt wrote
Fair, but the rendering pic only shows one room. Additionally, id think that train travel has changed quite a bit in the last 60 years. It uses to be the way one got to different cities, now Penn is mostly serving commuters. Amtrak does have a sitting area.
brianvan t1_je5f3ds wrote
Amtrak's sitting area is distant from where they ask you to line up for the trains, which starts more than an hour before departure (like airport gate lice). It means you are forced to stand or forced to take really unhappy seat choices on the trains.
Airport gates have seating areas!
The problem is, it's now policy to not have benches in transportation facilities. They do not want to have to move homeless people off of them, because there are now tens of thousands of documented homeless people in the city every night & the shelters are terribly unsafe and overcrowded. So they've removed or altered benches in the subways, they close parks, they've taken benches off the sidewalks, and now they build new train stations (notably Moynihan and WTC) that have nowhere to sit at all, except for the tiny disconnected far-from-platforms Amtrak waiting area you mentioned.
People are mentioning it because sometimes they WOULD like to sit, and commuters are sometimes waiting 1-2 hours for their next train when it's off-peak service. (e.g. the weekend trains on Metro North past Croton and White Plains are hourly, and some destinations have even less frequent service) And these people tend to have luggage and don't want to arrive early and stand around with it. This isn't a bizarre hypothetical.
down_up__left_right t1_je6v3ct wrote
>now Penn is mostly serving commuters.
Go to Penn Station at about 9 pm tonight and you'll see those some of those commuters sitting on the floors as they wait almost an hour for the next train on their line.
down_up__left_right t1_je53hl5 wrote
>Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around?
With the headways on some routes if you miss your train off peak it can be an hour or more until the next one.
>I get waiting for a train, but there's lounges for that.
Penn Station has a lounge for Amtrak customers not for NJ Transit and LIRR riders.
izzo444 t1_je8dfau wrote
theres a lounge at moynihan
down_up__left_right t1_je8hkfc wrote
> Penn station[/Moynihan] has a lounge for Amtrak customers not for NJ Transit and LIRR riders.
thebruns t1_jeam5g4 wrote
> Aren't train stations supposed to be places where people are in motion (going in or out), and not necessarily hanging around?
With this logic, airports shouldnt have seats either.
capt_jazz t1_je4je3f wrote
Moynihan train hall is bad for this too...
Italophobia t1_je4m6y8 wrote
It has seating but only for those with tickets. There's also a food court with seating
carpy22 t1_je82jqu wrote
The ticketed seating area shuts down after the last Amtrak departure of the night, which is currently around 9 PM. LIRR of course is 24/7, so if you go to a game at MSG you have to stand around until your train instead of sitting in a waiting room like a civilized human.
DonkStompy t1_je58u4e wrote
The hostility in all the recent designs is palpable
ilostmydog718 t1_je6xzcz wrote
Tranq addicts and dope heads prefer to stand and slump over all wobbly these days.
[deleted] t1_je2yr0g wrote
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elhymut t1_je5pqhs wrote
You know why there are no benches.
_TheCommish_ t1_je6f644 wrote
Yes because it's a mass transit station - not a homeless shelter
elhymut t1_je6g3dv wrote
Exactly! People act like they don’t know how it goes in this city…
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