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notqualitystreet t1_jbod1op wrote

And large sections of tunnel have already been built- wtf is up with these costs


b1argg t1_jbouvq3 wrote

Interest rates are way up. The MTA needs to fund construction with bonds, which are now much more expensive.


OnceOnThisIsland t1_jbozrh3 wrote

Not to mention inflation is causing issues with infrastructure costs across the country.


b1argg t1_jbp0tfg wrote

> Not to mention inflation is causing issues with infrastructure costs across the country.


eldersveld t1_jbprbya wrote

Taco Bell brought back the Bacon Club Chalupa and it's over $6 for just one of them lol


sumgye t1_jbqodk2 wrote

The subway situation is easily solvable. We just need to start putting the subway under streets again instead of miles underground. Yes we will need to dig up an avenue, but it will take less than a year of closures and it's not like there are a lack of streets for cars to use as alternatives.


djdjddhdhdh t1_jbqzvus wrote

It’s not the closures as much as all the other shit that’s underground


woodcider t1_jbr83u0 wrote

And there are probably more underground utilities than there were in “cut and cover” days. There’d be no cost savings with the addition of massive road closures that are also a financial drain.


gobeklitepewasamall t1_jbrru4h wrote

The issue is all the unknown unknowns under ground. Nyc is a maze of underground infrastructure, much of it ancient, orphaned tunnels and wire and pipe, and whose builders aren’t even around anymore. There isn’t even a unified map, they’re just starting to collate and digitize what fragments they have, but, this being ny, it’s a slow, tedious process full of red tape, inter factional dick measuring, government incompetence and refusal to talk to anyone in another office of the same department, let alone outside agencies or industry.

I’ve been saying for years that we need a single, central, searchable database for everything under our feet here. Something we can collate into a 3d cad map.


gonzo5622 t1_jbpjaeb wrote

But these types of shenanigans have happened over decades. Other countries are able to build high functioning rail at fractions of the cost and time. If you’ve been to China or Japan, you’ll know how a country can build things quickly and efficiently.


b1argg t1_jbq1g5i wrote

I was recently in Singapore and the MRT made me want to cry.


gonzo5622 t1_jbq7l8x wrote

It’s nuts. And these places need to create the tunnels to begin with. We’re just asking to retrofit them so they’re modern. Kinda insane


[deleted] t1_jbqkhua wrote



gonzo5622 t1_jbql43f wrote

Yep, and that’s my point, our system is just so stupid. It took 5 years of squabbling to get the WTC rebuilt. That’s a stupid long time to rebuild something that became a symbol for us, and it was all of because of “authority”. These other nations are much more efficient and will move obstacles to enable progress (at least when it comes to infrastructure).


dspeyer t1_jbp2tij wrote

I don't think that's included in this number. We'll know how much that cost when we learn how long it takes to pay off the bonds.


Pool_Shark t1_jbp5ys2 wrote

Using inflation as an excuse to increase the amount being funneled into their cousins bank account


Topher1999 t1_jbpe9bh wrote

They’re going to make the stations huge like GCM. They don’t need to be huge.


Insomniac_80 t1_jbs7kx1 wrote

And so far underground that it takes too much time to get out of them!


Grass8989 OP t1_jbost34 wrote

Yup, could you imagine the costs if they were digging all of these tunnels fresh?


PersonalFan480 t1_jbvazv1 wrote

Sums up as incompetence at every level of the MTA. The MTA does not have the engineering staff to build its own subways, nor to design their own subways, nor to supervise the contractors who would do the above. For that matter, they cannot handle even simple capital projects at a reasonable cost.

And the leadership, who are mostly political hacks and career managers who haven't had an original thought in decades all drive and so do not use their own product. They also do not care nor want to learn about best practices for subway operations. Meanwhile the MTA, instead of developing in house capacity to handle capital projects, has created a stupidly complex rule book that inflates costs because for-profit contractors aren't just going to eat the extra costs of compliance.


planning_throwaway1 t1_jbxyrsb wrote

Yeah. Most places keep costs down by having more internal staff. We've largely gutted public staffing across the board, NYC's planning staff is a fraction of what it used to be.

Everyone is run ragged, so everything gets outsourced to contractors at 3x the cost.

Paris builds new rail constantly, at a fraction of NYC prices, despite being an old system, in an old city, with a river and riddled with catacombs below ground, with a heavily unionized workforce.

The big "trick" is they do it all in-house, only outsource if absolutely necessary, and keep contractors on a tight leash. Also, they don't have to do multi-year long environmental reviews and feasibility studies for every little project, they just do them.