Comments
glewtion t1_jdqast8 wrote
Totally agree with this. Sea level rise is gonna happen much faster/sooner than we anticipated. The bigger issue is how the rest of the city gets protected. $200Million is tiny compared to what the city will eventually need to invest…
CTL04980 t1_jdpmo1x wrote
If you're going to do such a project you need to do two things: First, do it as quickly as possible, most opposition comes from people mad that their park will be closed for at least three years. Spend the money to do it more quickly. Second, improve the park in terms of features. If you can show a relatively short time scale and shiny pictures of some neat new features of the park, people will smile and go along with it.
The utter obtuseness of officials who don't understand these two things is a major reason why nothing gets done. This is basic customer service - minimize the interruption and give the customer something for their trouble.
The basic idea can be extended to all city develoment - consider transit planning. You want to build a new subway line you need to build it as quickly as possible and you need to deliver an experience that people really enjoy. Moscow recently demonstrated this, you can look up videos of their new "circle line" on Youtube. They prioritized speed of construction and they built interesting, beautiful stations that make people excited to visit. There are no complaints. For building developments, just make the new building not ugly. Seattle succesfully sped up their development process by removing a host of interruptions in exchange for giving local committees design oversight. It turns out people just wanted things done quickly and to not have to look at some ugly piece of shit forever once it was done.
thereia t1_jdppkv8 wrote
Nobody complains in Moscow because they don’t want to end up accidentally falling out of a window.
deathhand t1_jdrxbss wrote
We have a word specifically for this "defenestrated"
CTL04980 t1_jdpqrr5 wrote
That's racist and ignorant.
thereia t1_jdpqucj wrote
Russian is a race? You’re hilarious.
CTL04980 t1_jdpr11n wrote
Is that how you make yourself feel better about your prejudice and hypocrisy?
thereia t1_jdpr4tq wrote
Welcome comrade. Putin will be pleased.
CTL04980 t1_jdprdou wrote
The USSR, where "comrade" was a relevant term, has been gone for over 30 years. That's three full decades. Are you done embarassing yourself?
thereia t1_jdprguj wrote
Da.
[deleted] t1_jdqyzr9 wrote
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OkAssociation3005 t1_jdqqhqk wrote
The USSR, which Putin, in his first speech as an elected official a few decades ago, promised to rebuild.
Tokinruski t1_jdqu7z4 wrote
Looks like you did the embarrassing of yourself here sir….
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdqv7cu wrote
Maybe don't keep the plans vague and secret and get the city sued, and then when you have to release the plans redact major sections including $300,000,000 of the ambiguous budgeting, and get the city sued again... This entire project is disgusting and corrupt.
james_otter t1_jdqcgwn wrote
They are realizing the title sequence of the expanse floodwalls comming
TeamMisha t1_jdrnqe0 wrote
I understand why this has to be done but the original timeline is insane, how does it take multiple years to basically pile up dirt? They built the Empire State Building in just over ONE year and it'll take 2 years to shovel fucking dirt and redo some lawns? This is why people get enraged, it's absolute insanity. This should be something they could finish in less than a year by starting in the autumn and do all the groundwork before freeze conditions. If you go in and tell people say goodbye to your park for literally 3 summers (we know it'll be delayed past 2025), of course they're gonna be upset
GettingPhysicl t1_jdt37xv wrote
> how does it take multiple years to basically pile up dirt?
(the union doesnt just protect workers by making sure the pay and benefits and safety are good. They also make sure each project takes a while. cant go running out of work)
fasda t1_jdywngi wrote
At the same time the high costs prevent more projects from being approved
GettingPhysicl t1_jdt2y85 wrote
why would people who will leave nyc in 5 years to go start their big boy lives care about what happens to nyc in 30 years? Theyre just upset their glow up fuck around era in nyc is being blighted by...construction noises or something.
Die-Nacht t1_jdskdbr wrote
NYC is gonna look like the Expanse intro.
But sure, let's keep "compromising" with coal barons in West Virginia, complaining about bike lanes and "lose of parking", complaining about congestion pricing, complaining about all of the little inconveniences we have to make in order to NOT have to build walls around NYC.
Castor_and_Pollux123 t1_jdsmmae wrote
It's good, I suppose they're going to raise the level of the park.
But what about the rest of the west Side Esplanade? Are they going to rip out all of the walkway & bike path up to the GW Bridge?
lemming-leader12 t1_jdso3yq wrote
Kinda sad if they are trimming a portion of the park to end up in the sea. I work in the area and really enjoy the waterfront which is across the street from my office. Two years of construction (probably a lot more) is a bit of a pain even though I agree it is necessary.
KaiDaiz t1_jdsxnq5 wrote
Just let the area sink beneath the tides then. Jack up the flood insurance rates for the complaining neighbors.
Conundrum35 t1_jdr9op8 wrote
lmao yet they won’t fix infrastructures in the most needed areas because there’s no money being poured onto their pockets in those areas
ahh NYC great at advertising itself as anything but a shit hole to fool the masses. endless money pit
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdqe4c2 wrote
They clear cut like 1000 trees from the East River Park, killing and displacing a solid percentage of Manhattan's wildlife, for what will surely be a 10 year "construction" project that could have just been a resolved with a concrete wall along the water.
hamhead t1_jdqixvn wrote
Yes because what most people want is a 10’ wall hemming them off from the water view.
[deleted] t1_jdqni2r wrote
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hamhead t1_jdqns2x wrote
Based on that response I don’t think you’re actually interested in learning anything, but no, they are not just putting a wall in. They’re raising the entire level.
If it comes out anything like the renderings it’s quite beautiful, if very different.
nyc-ModTeam t1_jdqrmk4 wrote
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior
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(b). No dog whistles.
(c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft.
(d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
mowotlarx t1_jdqkzva wrote
It could not have just been resolved with a concrete wall along the water. Unless you and the other Manhattan NIMBYs would be happy with a 10 foot concrete barrier blocking the water view you feel so entitled to. I suspect you wouldn't be happy with that.
The funniest thing to me about the NIMBY response to the East Side Coastal Resiliency is this idea that we need to give a shit about trees that will be replanted. The trees will be DESTROYED by storm surge without the flood wall. These aren't "historical" trees in these parks. Wagner is only 30 years old. Almost all of the waterfront in lower Manhattan is man made, not natural habitat. We are 30 years past the stage of environmentalism where trees can save us. Climate change is already here.
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdqt76x wrote
It's still being resolved with a concrete wall and mounds that block the view of the river... And most of the park space will still be exposed to storm surges.
They didn't need to kill all of those plants and animals. This entire project is just a way to launder tax dollars to elites through construction companies.
mowotlarx t1_jdqzw9q wrote
No, it's not being fixed by just a wall. The entire park is being raised. The entire project is for future generations to enjoy Lower Manhattan, but unfortunately entitled adults are far more concerned with a minor inconvenience for the next 5 years than actually dealing with climate change. And spare us the phony sob story about dead plants and animals. What do you think happens to them when the next big storm or flood comes?! To fight this hard to preserve something already doomed just for the short term convenience of old people is astounding.
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdr3glm wrote
>The entire park is being raised
No. You are wrong.
Asser Levy, Stuyvesant Cove, The Promenade, and much of the East River Park and South Street waterfront are going to remain at street level with a flood wall. They've already begun placing the street-level flood wall in some places. According to the very sparse and apparently unofficial renderings of the project, there will only be a few areas that are actually "elevated" in some sections.
mowotlarx t1_jdr73ex wrote
>"As part of a major $221 million climate resilience plan, the Battery Park City Authority will tear down Wagner Park, reconstruct it with new flood-prevention features and raise it by 10 feet."
No. You are wrong.
Sufficient-Aspect77 t1_jds20b0 wrote
My Haiku
No YOU are wrong, here!!
Water SHOULD destroy us all.
Oh wait, you were right.
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdrh5ea wrote
>$221,000,000
Wagner park is hardly larger than a soccer field.
They won't elevate the Jewish Museum, so the north part will just be a wall. They can't elevate the boathouse, so the south part will just be a wall...
Snap out of this trance where you just repeat media. You're not making any sense.
mowotlarx t1_jdsrjtp wrote
You are suggesting a park is being demolished and rebuilt with a flood wall not because climate change is real but because it's a grand conspiracy of government officials making up fake projects to give money to construction companies.
But, sure, I am in a trance.
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdssgww wrote
You are suggesting that $221M is being spent legitimately to raise a 200' by 600' park...
...The entire park, you claim is being raised without leaving street level areas with walls, even though that park contains two very large landmarks which border the waterfront and cannot be raised.
mowotlarx t1_jdsvx3z wrote
So how much do you think it costs to demolish and rebuild a coastal park in Manhattan? I'd love to hear how you've scoped this out.
MandatoryDissent55 t1_jdt12qg wrote
They're demolishing a sunbathing platform and a few hundred feet of footpaths, then packing down landfill and walling off sections while laying new footpaths and some sod and saplings.
$20,000,000 would be overly expensive. Anything above that is going to corruption.
tiregroove t1_jdowjxa wrote
'Some neighbors' are gonna have to sit on their hands if they don't want to get flooded out again at some point. Those same neighbors are gonna whine and bitch and moan when they're stuck in their apartments and complain the 'city didn't do enough' when another flood happens.
THis is bigger than just the neighborhood. There are still tunnels that need dire maintenance after Sandy flooded them 10 yrs ago.
Honestly I don't even think 10 ft higher is enough.