Submitted by ILikeTalkn2Myself t3_ydfard in nyc
Comments
beepoppab t1_itt0w5a wrote
“Seatbelts do not prevent car crashes.”
sysyphusishappy t1_itt2eqt wrote
So to be clear, you're telling me the vaccine stops the spread of omicron? You need to update your talking points, because even the CDC has said this isn't true.
radek4pl t1_itvfwp5 wrote
Are you trying to say then that vaccine mandates no longer make sense since "breakthrough" infections are extremely common and the main goal of vaccination is personal protection against severe illness and death?
I'm no longer protecting you and you are no longer protecting me. I take the vaccine and I protect myself. You take the vaccine and you protect yourself. Everybody can make their own medical decisions based on their current situation.
sysyphusishappy t1_itvl62d wrote
Omicron goes right through the vaccines. The director of the CDC got covid a month after her 4th "booster".
The entire rationale for vaccine mandates of any kind is to protect others. The government does not have the authority to force people to make the right healthcare choices for themselves.
radek4pl t1_itvmf56 wrote
I mistook you for someone else. I thought you were lobbying for mandatory covid vaccination.
sysyphusishappy t1_itvztt8 wrote
Fuck no.
beepoppab t1_itt4wnw wrote
A lot of words you inferred there..
sysyphusishappy t1_itt6u3y wrote
Pretty simple question. Do the vaccines stop the spread of omicron or not? Nothing at all to do with "inferring words", whatever that is supposed to mean.
oceanblue966 t1_ituoobr wrote
You get less sick, show less symptoms, sneeze and cough less, and generally get over the illness faster. All of the above symptoms that are lessened, certainly contribute to the spread of covid. So in short - it does reduce transmission, and the vaccine is highly safe & effective considering the circumstances surrounding its development.
sysyphusishappy t1_itvm8wz wrote
> You get less sick, show less symptoms, sneeze and cough less, and generally get over the illness faster. All of the above symptoms that are lessened, certainly contribute to the spread of covid.
By how much do they "contribute" to slowing the spread and for how long? BTW the director of the CDC got covid a month after her FOURTH dose of the vaccine. I guess that was a "breakthrough case".
> So in short - it does reduce transmission, and the vaccine is highly safe & effective considering the circumstances surrounding its development.
LOL at "considering the circumstances". That is not how we judge the safety or efficacy of pharmaceutical products. The "emergency" excuse has long since become a moot point. There is no more "emergency".
oceanblue966 t1_iu5dq5v wrote
Is that what your physician said?
beepoppab t1_itt7eoi wrote
Listen mate, all I'm saying is seatbelts don't prevent car crashes, umbrella's don't prevent rain, and kevlar doesn't prevent gunshots.
sysyphusishappy t1_ittbsd6 wrote
LOL. So you're refusing to answer the question?
[deleted] t1_ituwe7z wrote
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beepoppab t1_ituwzus wrote
Right, that's the idiotic irony here. These antivax incels are missing that vaccines don't prevent infection, just as seatbelts don't prevent car accidents. They just substantially reduce the risk of death or serious injury/illness.
radek4pl t1_ituynhc wrote
That's a terrible argument, if anything you can argue that seatbelts don't prevent death upon accident, but they do reduce the chance of death.
Seatbelts were never advertised as preventing accidents (infection), but vaccines were infact advertised as 95% effective in USA and 100% effective against infection in Africa. Most importantly, claims were made by medical professionals that even if you happened to be infected by the virus, you would be a dead end to it, ie you won't transmit it to others. Transmission was the main selling point of the mandates.
“When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community,” Fauci said. “In other words, you become a dead end to the virus. And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere. And that’s when you get a point that you have a markedly diminished rate of infection in the community.”
hortence1234 t1_iu4qv2s wrote
Conflating two different things... no wonder people hate lib hipsters.
beepoppab t1_iu4s0ts wrote
lawlz, all you Suffolk county losers got triggered here..SAD!
hortence1234 t1_iu4wqig wrote
Wrong again dummy... Crown Heights... but keep it coming
beepoppab t1_iu4y8bg wrote
👌
iamiamwhoami t1_itwpnxa wrote
But that's not true. Vaccines do prevent both contracting and transmitting Covid. Why are you taking the word of a non scientifically literate judge on this?
sysyphusishappy t1_itwx2ch wrote
> But that's not true. Vaccines do prevent both contracting and transmitting Covid.
Not for omicron they don't. They can reduce symptoms, for a few months after you take them. That's it.
iamiamwhoami t1_itwxzjw wrote
That's really not true. The original MRNA vaccines have been shown to prevent infection with Omicron
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00200-9
We also don't have human efficacy trials yet with the bivalent booster, but that's expected to be much more effective based on animal trials.
sysyphusishappy t1_itx1ocq wrote
Did you even read that article?
> Omicron changed the thinking around boosters, says Alejandro Balazs, an immunologist at the Ragon Institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts. That’s because, faced with the variant, people previously regarded as fully vaccinated now have “an antibody response that is insufficient to prevent infections”, he says.
> As Omicron outbreaks have spread, boosters have been used to ramp up levels of neutralizing antibodies, curbing cases and easing strain on hospitals1,2. But the concern is that boosters don’t block infections for long.
> Data from Israel — collected between June and November last year when Delta was dominant — and detailed online ahead of peer review, indicate that the immunity from a third (mRNA booster) shot wanes within months, mirroring the decline after two doses3.
The director of the CDC just got covid a month after her FOURTH booster. So did Anthony Fauci. Pretty much everyone I know got omicron last winter, vaxxed or unvaxxed.
You can argue that the shots reduce symptoms, but as far as stopping the spread, that ship has sailed with omicron. Unless maybe you think the government should force people to get shots every three months for a variant that is about as severe as the flu for almost everyone but the very sick and very old?
You need to update your government talking points. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-17/israel-trial-suggests-4th-dose-not-warding-off-omicron-infection#xj4y7vzkg
calvin43 t1_ity1eom wrote
Because he's a Russian shill trying to kill as many Americans as possible without lifting a finger outside of a keyboard.
blarghgh_lkwd t1_itxnjvm wrote
That is an impossibly stupid argument
The vaccine reduces symptoms and slows the spread of the disease SIGNIFICANTLY. If you catch it while vaccinated your chance of developing serious symptoms or needing hospitalization, or passing a more malignant instance of it on to others, goes down to very nearly nothing.
There is no excuse for anyone who is a public employee and works with the public to be unvaccinated. It is an unconscionable and disgusting breach of the social contract to think you can go out among people with such a lackadaisical and ignorant attitude to health care and disease prevention.
sysyphusishappy t1_itxx47u wrote
>The vaccine reduces symptoms and slows the spread of the disease SIGNIFICANTLY. If you catch it while vaccinated your chance of developing serious symptoms or needing hospitalization,
Reducing symptoms is not how vaccines work and it does nothing to "stop the spread". You need to upate your government talking points. Even the CDC doesn't claim this anymore, especially after the head the CDC got covid one month after her FOURTH "booster" shot.
>It is an unconscionable and disgusting breach of the social contract
Who exactly is protected by a shot that doesn't keep you from getting covid or spreading covid? Unvaccinated people?
blarghgh_lkwd t1_ityxsbn wrote
>not how vaccines work
You clearly don't know much about vaccines and 'how they work'
>upate your government talking points
I think you should update your moronic catch phrases because that one's played out
sysyphusishappy t1_iu0kpfu wrote
So, vaccines just reduce symptoms, still let you catch and spread a virus, and need to be retaken every 3 months?
Kadaven t1_ituxei2 wrote
This decision is absolutely nonsensical and devoid of legal support. Most posts on this subreddit are better written.
[deleted] t1_iu6gkv8 wrote
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doodoobug46 t1_ittn98c wrote
vaxcels seething rn
LivefromPhoenix t1_itvpo8e wrote
Funny considering how much you guys will seethe when this gets overturned on appeal. This judge has a history of making expansive conservative rulings then getting them reversed by higher courts.
doodoobug46 t1_itxzig1 wrote
Just let me enjoy this while it lasts plz :-p
iamiamwhoami t1_itwpfbw wrote
Vaccine celibates?
doodoobug46 t1_itxzm4i wrote
Yeah, its a meme. It started with incels then turned into gymcel, femcel and now vaxcel.
iamiamwhoami t1_ity2y2p wrote
That doesn’t make any sense.
doodoobug46 t1_ity3lwq wrote
It doesn't have to.
1600hazenstreet t1_itsungj wrote
Government just got wrecked. Too bad taxpayers will foot the bill and not the folks who made these stupid mandates.
LivefromPhoenix t1_itvprkt wrote
No one is going to foot the bill since this isn't actually going to be implemented.
damostrates t1_itwwulb wrote
They also get a stay of enforcement when they file the Notice of Appeal. No one is being rehired anytime soon.
Also, I only read the decision quickly, but I thought the relief pertaining to the rehiring was limited to the named petitioners.
[deleted] t1_its552e wrote
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behindtheclouds t1_itrzuqk wrote
Vaccine warriors are in fucking shambles in the other thread. Love it 😀
brownredgreen t1_its57na wrote
Oh cool, public health isn't public anymore. Who knew.
radek4pl t1_ituwvfq wrote
Please tell me how you got your job taken pre-covid due to "public health" if you had not gotten your annual flu shot.
brownredgreen t1_ituyz71 wrote
DID A MILLION AMERICANS DIE FROM THE FLU IN THE LAST 2 YEARS?
radek4pl t1_itv196f wrote
Hello? Public health? Estimated billion annual flu infections around the globe and tens of thousands of dead Americans each year. Are tens of thousands of dead Americans not a matter of public health?
Also, why compare only the last two years? Many millions of Americans died from the flu over the years. If you want to compare an outbreak of covid-19 where most of the population is naive to the flu, compare it to the 1918 outbreak of the flu, not when the flu has mutated down over the years and people became more immune to the virus.
As a matter of fact, ever since omicron came out, upon infection, you are now more likely to die from your regular seasonal flu rather than covid.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10598195/Covid-deadly-flu-scientists-say.html
brownredgreen t1_itv3c8e wrote
JFC that article cites the vaccination as a factor in reducing the death rate
FFS
Remove the vax and tell me comparable death rates
Which, ya known, are what we got in the first year of pandemic.
We mandated the vax because WITHOUT IT we are looking at another million dead in another few years.
radek4pl t1_itv4amp wrote
Of course vaccination plays a role. Natural immunity and the fact that omicron is less severe by being much less likely to travel to your lungs, also plays a role.
Did you forget that we had the flu vaccines for close to a century? Why would you want to suddenly compare covid without the vaccines to flu with the vaccines?
We're on an even playing field now by comparing covid with the vaccines to the flu with the vaccines.
brownredgreen t1_itv4ffr wrote
When was the vax mandate put in place?
radek4pl t1_itv4ta5 wrote
What's the relevance of bringing up vax mandate at this point in the conversation?
brownredgreen t1_itv9fds wrote
Because of the article OP posted? That's what started this whole convo?
radek4pl t1_itvb0yc wrote
What does that question have anything to do with what I said in my most recent comment? Do you want to start the same coversation all over again? I think you can just look at the history and guide yourself through.
brownredgreen t1_itvcxfl wrote
OP posted something regarding the vax mandate
You behave as if its not necessary, cause of lower death rate
I point out, the lower death rate WAS A RESULT OF THE MANDATORY VACCINATIONS
You: "why are we talking about when vaxx's were mandated?"
Fuck you troll. Block.
sysyphusishappy t1_itslymv wrote
>"Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting Covid-19," the ruling notes.
>
>The judge ruled the "petitioners should not have been terminated" and that "If it was about public safety and health, no one would be exempt."
Devastating that the "follow the science" crowd now has to acknowledge the actual science in a court of law without social media platforms bullying people with dissenting opinions into silence.