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yiannistheman t1_it0ijv2 wrote

Yeah, random and unprovoked aren't unique to this city in any way. Inserting the word "subway" into your post doesn't change that.

Just ask the asshole who live streamed his shooting spree in Memphis.


stoptakingmylogins t1_it0m7fs wrote

Yes, but New York has a very high percentage of citizens who use the public transit system. Expecting safety measures on the subway is a VERY valid request. Random and unprovoked attacks can and do happen anywhere, but over the last two years the Northeast US has experienced the highest percentage rise.

People get stabbed, robbed, and assaulted multiple times a day in NYC. Memphis doesn't have shooters driving by every day. I grew up in Nashville and Memphis is notorious for being dangerous - frequently cited as one of the most dangerous in the country.

The issue in New York is that, moreso than any other city, you're frequently forced to take the risk. I have to use the subway to get to work, and almost daily someone clearly deranged will be on the train. Statistically, I'm probably safe, but every day I have to be on edge and careful because the mentally ill are passed through the shitty legal system and released over and over again. I'm a 6"5 guy, I imagine that is a huge reason I've managed to avoid conflict, but I've certainly come across people half my size that try to instigate me.

There are different issues at play here, but it's perfectly valid to mention the Subway as particularly unsafe. I'm sure if the man had the option, he would have driven his wife.


ikneverknew t1_it0oyga wrote

I get what you’re saying but the implication seems to be that there aren’t parallels elsewhere. Road rage incidents come to mind, as there are so many crazy motherfuckers on various interstates and highways whose egos and willingness to do stupid dangerous shit using their vehicle to randos who happen into their way. The subway may be unique in some regard relevant to this discussion, but I wager it’s not so much as we may think.


Rottimer t1_it1d8pn wrote

I've got to ask - what do you think is riskier in regards to death, taking the subway to work in NYC or driving to work in Memphis? Even if you count total subway deaths in 2022 it's far, far exceeded by total car deaths in NYC year to date.


stoptakingmylogins t1_it1ea2n wrote

That's fair, but we're talking safety from some form of assault. I wouldn't argue that driving a car would statistically improve risk of death on a day to day basis, but if we were to talk about someone committing a crime against you, I'd say the subway is far more dangerous. Some numbers to compare would be total deaths from assault in the subway system vs total deaths from road rage or something of the like. There's more nuance, surely, but that's just an example.

To respond to the other guys point as well, I think we can agree that, despite the statistically higher risk of death in a car, you feel much more safe and secure in one than you do crammed into a train cart with dozens of strangers - let alone mentally deranged and violent ones. The perception of safety, in my opinion, is just as valuable as the safety itself. People need to feel safe in their local communities and on public transit.

When I moved to NYC 6 years ago, I felt safe. I feel significantly less safe now, 50 pounds heavier. Just earlier today on the M train at flushing Avenue, a homeless man just stood facing perpendicular to me as I sat. He just spits on the ground, sticks a hand in his jacket and glares around. I don't know if he had a knife or gun, but not much could compel me to find out. I think the nature of the problem is rooted in a city with so many people that are on the edge. I need to work to survive, but I miss the days where that meant a nice commute where I could take a nap between stops instead of making sure I'm always aware of who's around me.


Rottimer t1_it2l38t wrote

That’s the thing about humans, our feeling don’t often align with probabilities. People are often too distracted when they should be fearful and too fearful when they don’t have much to worry about. I don’t deny that there are scary people on the subway and others that will make you feel uncomfortable. But we’ve also had 199 traffic fatalities this year through last week.

If the NY Post covered every traffic fatality the way they cover crime and micro mobility advocates posted on this sub like the conservatives post, you’d see people expressing the same fear about cars on the road and how drivers are a menace.


virtual_adam t1_it29c6m wrote

You’re basically advocating for every New Yorker to have a private security guard walking around with them. In order to prevent a crime that’s about 1 in a million or even rarer

At that logic you can also make private cars illegal. Much higher risk for a random person to cause you injury with them

Also same logic as locking down the city forever due to Covid. If even 1 New Yorkers in a million dies from covid, we need to shut down all restaurants


stoptakingmylogins t1_it2bm6e wrote

That's not at all what I'm advocating. You're assuming an extreme. There is middle ground - I've got the math in my post history, but the MTA could easily afford multiple security guards and live, monitored cameras in every station for the cost of cutting just a couple percent on their overtime costs. Expecting the primary provider of public transport to invest my fares into security versus mismanaging funds is a fair ask.

You're much less likely to have a random driver make an attempt on your life versus violent, mentally unhinged people with prior assaults on their record on the train.


virtual_adam t1_it2cm98 wrote

How would security cameras stop a 3 second push? It’s not like these people are never arrested. I don’t know of a subway pusher that’s still on the loose because cops can’t find them

You seem to be advocating for some 3 strikes rule towards the end of your comment. Which is very different than making sure 1 person isn’t pushed to the tracks every ~30 million rides by physically guarding every inch of subway at every moment of the day


stoptakingmylogins t1_it2e8gg wrote

That's exactly the point. It isn't like these people are arrested. That is the main issue, and cameras would allow a more rigid and enforceable accountability measure. Will ot definitely work like that? Who's to say - the DA is unreliable.

Security works as a deterrent, that's not much of a secret. Even if it prevents a handful of deaths a year, it's worth it. The only money on the line is money that the MTA is already spending, just very poorly.

Subway pushers get arrested and released the same week. That's very problematic. I'm not sure why this is an issue - would you not rather see the MTA manage their finances in such a way as to improve service, reliability, and safety for riders? It's not like I'm proposing massive overhaul or a drastic increase in budget.


yiannistheman t1_it0ssad wrote

A lot of words to say basically nothing. There are a lot of people using the subways and as such you'd expect a higher number of incidents there.

Top five states in terms of murders per 100k population have routinely been Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi and South Carolina. They're usually in the double digits. NYC's rate was 5.5 last year.

The spike in crime is cause for concern, but let's not pretend there's been some precipitous decline in safety.


whowantscake t1_it2cg7g wrote

Did anyone read the article? This isn’t a random or unprovoked incident. Someone died as a result and regardless of cause that’s terrible news. There was a man standing by the platform edge when he was bumped by Quintana. Because this man was bumped by Quintana, that man’s cell phone fell and ended up in the subway tracks. This man obviously pissed told Quintana to go retrieve it. Quintana refused understandably. Because of this they both engaged in an altercation leading to physical violence. It was reported that Quintana was pushed into the tracks at first, with other witnesses saying he wasn’t pushed, but fell into the tracks due to the scuffle. Now I’ve seen people bump into others without regard. I think it can be frustrating when someone doesn’t give a shit. That’s life. In this case if Quintana bumped into a man and that man loses his phone, then I can see how it would cause an argument followed by a hands on fight. It isn’t worth it though. They both lose. This isn’t a crazy person randomly pushing people into the subway tracks though.


WickhamAkimbo t1_it2b4u0 wrote

> Yeah, random and unprovoked aren't unique to this city in any way.

It's so much worse in American cities right now. It's insane. I honestly think that the majority of people who think otherwise simply haven't traveled internationally at all.


yiannistheman t1_it2bfut wrote

No it's not, that's just fear mongering at its finest. Crime is certainly up but nowhere near historical levels.

Meanwhile, crime is up outside of cities too.


WickhamAkimbo t1_it51woe wrote

I've traveled internationally pretty extensively and never run into the widespread menacing that you find in New York. It's not fearmongering, it's experience. I don't really give a shit that your political views demand that you ignore crime happening around you or ignore other people's experiences.


yiannistheman t1_it549lv wrote

Listen Bucky, Canada doesn't qualify as having traveled extensively.

Go back to hiding under your bed now, you can still hear the angry talk radio from there, no worries.


WickhamAkimbo t1_it5avl9 wrote

It's sad that you're so ignorant of the world and can't process nuance better. I'm not a conservative, I'm not talking about Canada, and you are really out of your depth in this conversation.


yiannistheman t1_it5bj8q wrote

Yeah, the sad part is you trying to pretend that a random altercation between two people who run into each other can't turn into a freak accident anywhere else.

Try to peddle your bullshit elsewhere fucknuts, right down to lying about your political leanings as if your post history doesn't exist for all to see.


WickhamAkimbo t1_it9x6k9 wrote

It wouldn't even be an altercation in places like Seoul. You're simply ignorant of how a huge chunk of the world works and just how safe large cities can be. You don't even fully understand what cities can be at their best.

> right down to lying about your political leanings as if your post history doesn't exist for all to see.

Like the comment that got me banned from conservative months ago?:

My post history shows pretty reasonable opinions. I'll continue to push them here and elsewhere and argue against inexperienced children such as yourself. I will work with other like-minded New Yorkers to put people like you in your place and keep your idiotic opinions from making life worse here for everyone.


yiannistheman t1_iu9w23f wrote

Yeah - turns out in Seoul a hundred people die because it's Halloween.

Not to beat up on Seoul, but here's proof shit happens everywhere. Sorry to burst your bubble.


WickhamAkimbo t1_iubowf6 wrote

Holy shit how pathetic your life must be to pull this shit 8 days later. Holy fucking shit.

And to pounce on a tragedy and try to compare it to crime in the city. What the fuck is wrong with you?


yiannistheman t1_iuc5llz wrote

They're both fucking tragedies you loser. Random tragedies that could happen anywhere. You can haul your racist bullshit elsewhere.


Stleaveland1 t1_it8mibb wrote

Damn called the fuck out by yiannistheman over there with your tail between your legs 😂


[deleted] t1_it9w5gt wrote



Stleaveland1 t1_ita6yci wrote

🤣 seething over Reddit comments from strangers! How much does your life suck? I'm sorry your feel feels got hurt. I'll make sure I give you a trigger warning next time.

I travel outside the city, but unlike you, I'm not scared of darker skin people. Not a lot of places you can go when you quake even thinking of ethnics right?


WickhamAkimbo t1_itbsf87 wrote

I'm pretty confident that my life is vastly better than yours. I have the money and resources to insulate myself from the problems that are caused by people like yourself that are ignorant of the world and of good public policy.

You're much more likely to be a victim of crime now than I am, despite the fact that you try to minimize it. Maybe it would teach you some empathy.

> I'm not scared of darker skin people

Such a lazy troll. Sincerity is harder, and I am sincerely dedicated to making the lives of anti-social people such as yourself miserable in this city until you either figure out how to cooperate or you leave.