This was literally just posted and removed. Assuming the mods don’t want this sub to turn into a micromobility/bike crosspost sub. Maybe a micromobility mega thread isn’t the worst idea.

I removed it because the title was misleading and looked like this was against electric scooters / skateboards, which was not the case

scooter and mopeds is not a bike and should not be in a bike lane

The OP of the other thread who apparently put up these signs did say it was targeted at electric scooters as well, or any vehicle that goes 35+ mph.

A scooter is usually slow enough to be safe in the bike lane. Definitely better than on the street. Bike lanes are for micro mobility not just for Bikes.

I commute over the Brooklyn Bridge and the other day was the first time I’ve actually seen a moped get a warning. Took them long enough. Those things take up so much space and the less considerate blow by cyclists. They’re pretty annoying.

Sorry to tell you but the people whipping gas scooters in all the wrong places aren’t reading or listening to signs

It's less for them than DOT to encourage them paying more attention

I’m sure but I think there’s only a couple things that will actually stop reckless endangerment

If the scooter is going at bike speeds then I can see an argument for that but every time I see a scooter in the bike lane it’s going at nearly the same speed as the cars.

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🤍

Vespa style e-scooters have 5x the motor wattage of an ebike and weigh between 2-4x as much.
Newtonian physics says they're much more dangerous than ebikes. And they can go 30+ so they can be in the car lane.

We have regulations for that. Anything that goes above 25mph can't go in the bike lane. Solved

Right on.

No.

Yeah. No. The signs won’t help and the idea that anyone can out up traffic announcement signs in public is bad and could be quite dangerous.

I feel your pain 100% and get your idea but this isn’t the way. With the massive increase in electric vehicles changes are needed

I fully support more bike lanes but if it turns into bike only elitism then you are no better than cars

Naw. It’s more dangerous for them and cyclists to be in there. Scooters etc. should position them self 2-3 seconds back from the car in from and roughly in the same position as the drivers rear tire to ensure they are seen in mirrors.

>bike only elitism

No. Scooters are MUCH HEAVIER than bikes. SO even if they are going the same speed as bikes they are DEADLY to cyclists. It has NOTHING to do with elitism and EVERYTHING to do with the law (and the laws of physics).

VTL 102-a – Definition of Bicycle Lane – A portion of the roadway which has been designated by striping, signing and pavement markings for the preferential or exclusive use of bicycles.

A scooter that is much heavier than a bike is basically a moped at that point. I've seen bikes go up to 50 pounds and any scooter past that isn't really a scooter

I think thread is taking about two different kinds of scooters. Kick scooter style should be (and are) allowed in the bike lane.

Was about to say I think maybe there's a language issue here.

I think there is an issue with language here (what is a scooter vs moped). But regardless, anything bigger than a basic e-bike (a bike frame with a small motor and those long thin rectangular batteries) is no longer a bike and legally restricted from using the lane.

Agree but why make up arbitrary metrics? We have class 1,2, and 3. What you're describing is basically a class 1 ebike, which I agree is the most safe. Class 2 is a very grey area. Class 3 should definitely be banned from the lanes

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The city needs to do what they did on 8th and 9th Avenues pretty much everywhere. They should expand all the bike lanes to two lanes in each direction and add about 10 extra feet to all the crosswalks. Mopeds don't belong on wide fast streets with cars but they shouldn't be weaving in and out of bikes either. With the sheer volume of micromobility vehicles out there combined with overcapacity for cars about 90% of the time - the road design is truly unbalanced. Particularly on my evening commute home there are more bikes/ebikes/scooters/mopeds waiting at a given light than cars.

especially given that there is a cop cruiser sits on the entry to bike lane on the Brooklyn sign and two cops standing outside of the cruiser.

citi bikes have motors. well the electric ones

Pedal assisted electric bikes do not count per law

Come on now. DOT gives less of a shit than the people riding the mopeds. The most they’ll do is tear down your signs because they’re unauthorized.

The only thing stopping them is enforcement, ticketing, and seizures. Signs don't do shit.

No motorized vehicles should be in the non-motorized vehicle lane. This includes e-scooters and gas scooters, though kick scooters are obviously fine.

> than DOT to encourage them paying more attention

By what mechanism would this even happen?

I don't expect discourse, only downvotes - but how should mopeds get across the bridges? the speed limit is higher than the top speed of most delivery mopeds and drivers invariably exceed that limit.

mopeds absolutely do not belong in the bike lanes, and it's exacerbated by riders that blow through at max speed but shoving the delivery guys onto a bridge packed with heavy vehicles going twice as fast is way worse than 'pretty annoying'

Great idea! This will definitely stop them!

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Car lanes

so just condemn the delivery classes to road conditions that their moped cannot handle? doesn't matter as long as enough survive to get your Sweetgreen's delivered?

I dont think its safe for many scooters to not be on the bike lane

The laws of phsyics are that its very dangerous for many scooters to be on bike lanes.

I like it, but you should have gotten your hands on the style guide for signage that the city uses so that it's so passable it'll stay up for years without them taking it down.

It’s called using the proper tool for the job.

Next, you’re gonna complain about mopeds not being able to carry a refrigerator.

that's not applicable at all, what a weird and stupid strawman.

transportation is often the entire fuckin job, not a 'tool'

the fact remains that if NYC only has bridges into Manhattan, and the streets are critically dangerous for mopeds then the mopeds will use the bike lanes.

the solution isn't to force the mopeds into a situation that's clearly immediately lethal because they're annoying. I get that it gives you a justice boner to think of people that annoy you getting killed on their way to work, but the reasonable response would be to work on solutions that take other's sense of self preservation into account

I guess that’s what you do when you’re not having sex

I’m not gonna drive a U-Haul on the Belt Parkway, and I’m not gonna drive an underpowered moped on a major bridge.

Real New Yorkers know not to order things from a different borough. Problem solved.

I feel like if we made it look too legit we might get in more trouble

The gas mopeds blow across the bridge bike lanes at 25-30mph. They can most certainly keep up with vehicle traffic going across the bridge assuming the bridge vehicles are keeping to the legal speed limit of the city so let's not be dramatic and say the cars on the bridge are going twice as fast - half the time the bridge traffic is crawling.

If you're already going to do something illegal, commit to the bit and go all the way.

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I admire their psychotic optimism.

I don’t even like those large tired electric bikes.

Prepared to be gaslighted by the moped delivery community who are “forced” to ride their gas mopeds in the bike lanes to “survive” and render their “essential” services. Meanwhile ignoring the fact that there are thousands of law abiding delivery riders on electric pedal e-bikes doing the same thing without putting bikers in jeopardy.

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Controlling their speed is more realistic, your picking a fight with Allie’s for no reason. Riding a scooter in traffic is not great, and cars are the real problem

I’m with you fuck the pessimism.

Funnily enough, we put a sign up while a DOT worker was watching us, so someone took notice lol.

To be fair, the amount of conversation this has generated in this thread alone made it worth it. We obviously know it's not going to magically solve the problem, but with our time and ressources - it's one thing we can do.

I think a lot of the delivery guys commute into Manhattan to do deliveries in the city for the day.

Still, no reason to choose a scooter to do the job an e-bike could do, especially if you have no legal way to commute with it.

cool fantasy - the bridge speed limits are 35, nobody follows the speed limit and they drive as fast as they can until they hit traffic which is only crawling at certain times in certain directions and often only half the bridge.

'real new yorkers' also sometimes live in the outer boroughs and have to bring their delivery vehicle into Manhattan.

until we're paying delivery drivers enough for them to move to Manhattan, this is a nonstarter

Tell me you're not a driver without telling me you're not a driver.

it's weird that you think this response is relevant - I'm not saying it isn't against the rules, I'm saying that riding a moped in a vehicle lane on the bridge is dangerous, critically so.

a solution involves avoiding people getting hurt not... proof they can be punished by law. forcing moped riders to choose between breaking the law or putting themselves in critical danger sets a bad precedent for how riders follow laws and worsens the scenarios where mopeds endanger others.

also how is a U-Haul or the belt parkway relevant? on what part? it's a major thoroughfare and one of the better roads to drive a truck.

Wow you caught me, the rare person in NYC who doesn't drive a car. I am just tired of gas mopeds on the bridge bike lanes.

lol what?

Who the fuck is ordering Sweetgreen's from an entirely different borough? Stahp it.

Drivers want the protection of a bike lane but the perks of a 100% motor vehicle.

Tunnels too

Why waste your time and energy

I saw these this morning. Good work, fooled me and thought they were official. So they might stay up for a while

My legs do 36mph

Thats ridiculous. Motorcycles?? A thing that weighs hundreds of pounds, with a full gas motor, in a lane where most users are on a ~25lb bicycle, including kids? GTFO
Not to mention the difference in bulk size, its already often difficult to pass slower people AND KIDS, when theres people coming the other way.
Theres also a large difference in acceleration. Mopeds/motorcycles can get to car speed VERY fast. No average bicyclist is getting to 20mph off a start anytime soon.
Those lanes are to offer safety from larger vehicles that also go faster. When those vehicles are in the same lane, it sacrifices that safety.

People forget bike lanes are also good for kids, who have NOT gone through the training to learn to drive. So they don't know all the same rules drivers do, nor do they have the road experience. That makes it a huge discrepancy of rider, not just for the physical vehicles.

But they also have pedals. generally any vehicle that has peddles is comparable to size and weight of a regular bicycle. Mopeds are very different beast.

Don't need a sign, those are flat out illegal anywhere.

People who ride bikes think the own the streets and that the world is waiting on baited breath to hear your opinions….. NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU, YOUR BIKES OR YOUR BUKE LANES… POINT BLANK! GFSF!

I admire your spirit, and trying to do something.

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thank you for your comment

THE BAD FEELING GOES AWAY!

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Reminds me of a podcast I listened to that talked about guerilla public service projects.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/guerrilla-public-service/

If it can go past the speed limit and is motorizedit belongs to the streets!! Speed limit, Queensboro...25mph.

I saw a few of your signs up near the Williamsburg bridge and on 1st Ave. I appreciate your signs, even though it’s pissing into the wind.

Also pointless, but the “right way” to go about this is to write your council-person.

U don’t want these scooters on the street ppl will get cooked

What is your opinion on escooters and ebikes?

We should all learn to share the bike lane safely and respect for our fellow commuters. Mopeds like the Revel are not legally allowed on bridges. They have permission to use the bike lane to cross inter-borough.

This disagreement between bikers, mopeds, and scooters reminds me of when pedal bikers are upset with ebikers. They were able to learn to share the bike lane safely and respectfully.

L

Thank you for contribute to the conversations

Yea, they need to start ticketing them.

That's what I was thinking. Closer to fraud or similar crime if impersonating a government authority.

People weigh hundreds of pounds too. Personally I care more about the noise and speed.

I think think slow, lightweight scooters with moped-esque features like mirrors, turn signals, and full suspension are actually safer.

At Metrotech there are multiple official signs telling people to dismount bikes and mopeds. I have never in my daily commute walk seen a single person dismounting and walking their bike or moped. Useless

who the fuck doesn't know that delivery drivers in Manhattan don't fucking live in Manhattan

it's weird how literally nobody has provided a coherent solution other than 'moped riders can go die in traffic'

what a sad bunch of entitled pieces of shit like you here

When was the last time you saw a moped on a sidewalk? When was the last time you saw someone on a bike/moped/etc run without even stopping a red light or stop sign? When was the last time you saw people riding full speed in a place where people have to walk their equipment? When was the last time you saw a pedestrian jaywalk? A car speed past a light that's turning red?

If you said more than a week, you probably don't live in New York. These guys already know that what they're doing is wrong. While signage always helps, people will do whatever the hell they want if they believe it's expedient. Why? Because there are seldom any consequences and our civic spirit is rather low.

We all transgress.

Motorcycle users have entered the chat

I appreciate you proving my point :)

So maybe they can lobby and work through the democratic process like bicyclists have over the last decades and get their own lane.

Cyclists have been fighting for decades to have separate infrastructure. They organized, they lobbied, and they are now getting what they fought for.

Just to have some scooter / moped jabronis come and ruin it? Nah. Get your own damn lanes.

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Agreed! Exactly what I have and it’s much safer. 20mph, built in horn, blinkers, mirrors, more heft, more crumple zone should I crash, can carry a passenger.