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parkerpyne t1_iwz4l9k wrote

In my experience, the two places whose front is never cleared of snow and ice are the post office and municipal parking lots.

Private businesses tend to be on top of these things since they want their customers to be able to enter the store.


discreet1 t1_iwzks7b wrote

And churches. Theres a church in my neighborhood that never shovels. You have to walk in the street around it.


i_seddit_on_reddit t1_ix03tko wrote

Every church in my neighborhood employs some sort of maintenance man who cleans the snow as well as their usual duties. I even did it for a few years, honestly best job I ever had. Working all alone in a beautiful building, my bosses were great, and the pay was great too.


sanrafas415 t1_ix0jtfx wrote

Can confirm church next to my last apt in Brooklyn didnt shovel and it was the worst


Darth_Innovader t1_ix1o564 wrote

Oh no, there was snow in the winter? Don’t tell me you had to walk on it!


sanrafas415 t1_ix1vr1z wrote

Nah that shit was straight ice my bro. At first it was snow that’s fasho. But only for like a day.


RAXIZZ t1_iwzgsaf wrote

Government property is the worst. In Jersey City, the city and state each think it's the others' responsibility to clear the sidewalks on state highways, so it just doesn't get done.


Cocororow2020 t1_iwzpkbg wrote

I live in NYC, and from my experience driving to and from NJ in snow, your highways are ALWAYS being plowed by 4-6 trucks while icing mid day.

In NYC they just wait till the over night crew starts it up.


Dantheking94 t1_iwzquuq wrote

Lol no, the plows in NYC are usually driving around before it even starts to snow. Sometimes they just drive around dropping salt/sand/gravel on the streets in prep, then they start plowing once the snow gets heavy.


Cocororow2020 t1_iwzqx5h wrote

I’m talking about the highways dude, not the streets.


Dantheking94 t1_iwzr3uv wrote

Highways as well. I’ve never in my life since living here which is 18 years, been on an unplowed highway in NYC. except maybe that one year when the city lost its mind over 3 inches of snow.


Cocororow2020 t1_iwzrd28 wrote

Come to Staten Island on a snow day and tell me how safe you feel on the expressway haha also I’m born and raised here 29 years.

It’s the weirded thing, slushy snow the entire way to the outer bridge then you get to NJ and there’s literally plows on the every lane.


RAXIZZ t1_iwzv9rh wrote

> your highways are ALWAYS being plowed by 4-6 trucks while icing mid day.

Yep. Serious overkill for the roads, and absolutely nothing for sidewalks.


cakeversuspie t1_iwzmfpq wrote

Also because their insurance demands it to avoid slip and fall claims.


MulysaSemp t1_ix27ppz wrote

Sidewalks next to city parks and playgrounds


k1lk1 t1_iwz5zfa wrote

NYPD permanently blocking sidewalks all over the city: cool no problem

Businesses not removing snow a few times a year: $1000-$5000 fine

Also, I'm scratching my head trying to think of a chain store I've ever seen fail to remove snow. Usually they want their customers to be able to get in. In my experience it's way more likely to be homeowners and poorly managed apartment buildings.


RAXIZZ t1_iwzh6p6 wrote

The mayor and some council members think NYPD sidewalk parking is great. Justin Brannan isn't one of them, he's just too scared to do his job and confront the police.


Dantheking94 t1_iwzqy5y wrote

That’s what we get from electing a former police chief.


tonka737 t1_iwzihoz wrote

Idk why ppl care so much about police parking on the sidewalk. I've only ever seen it in front of precincts and its always police vehicles.


FiascoBarbie t1_iwzo7k0 wrote

It is personal and police vehicles, they block the sidewalk and double park, it often takes up more than right in front of the precinct , they block bike lanes and make it impossible for people in wheelchairs, with strollers, or any mobility devices to get through, including blocking the cut outs on curbs.

Fuck the police.


gagreel t1_iwzprbm wrote

When the police block the sidewalks and bike lanes I have to go into the street and risk getting killed. I'd rather not roll the dice on account of some lazy power trip drop out from SI


tonka737 t1_iwzq18x wrote

Drivers are never more responsible than when they drive by a precinct. At least, my butt is clenched.


gagreel t1_iwzq5jq wrote

Too bad they park in bike lanes everywhere


Malfunctioned t1_ix0rby2 wrote

Here is the Google Map Street View of the 70th Precinct in Kensington, Brooklyn, between an ADAPT Community Network (formerly United Cerebral Palsy of New York City) and a low income Joseph Belsky House.

Here is the 110th precinct in Elmhurst with (presumably NYPD and their personal cars, and crashed/impounded? vehicles) on drawn double parking spots, or driving up right against local residents' driveways often blocking the whole sidewalk and the residents' ability to use their in-property parking space/garage. At least the residents get good protection in return. I see orange cones on the sidewalk which is probably used to reserve the public street parking spots for tomorrow after they leave.


tonka737 t1_ix0szx4 wrote

I'm not denying that it happens, I just don't see it as a big deal. For that one street, each precinct, it's inconvenient at most. This isn't even exclusive to precincts, I see this shit outside of mechanics just as much.


Grass8989 t1_iwznqnp wrote

They just hate the police in general so will use every excuse to take a “shot” at them.


gagreel t1_iwzpw2z wrote

I wonder why everyone hates them


ambushbugger t1_ix74qr1 wrote

You are correct. I hate the police and if there is a way to make things more difficult for them I choose that option.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwz5fm3 wrote

Why only chain stores? You’re just as likely to fall and be injured in front of an independent store as a chain store. This type of stuff makes no sense; and just seems like a punch up at bigger businesses. If you can’t afford to shovel snow <5x a year, you can’t afford to do business.


spicytoastaficionado t1_iwz6ux0 wrote

Independent businesses who don't shovel snow will still get fined the same $100-$350 it has been, though the sanitation commissioner argued that was also too low.

Presumably, the proposal for chain stores to eat bigger fines is because they have more resources to hire contractors or employees to shovel snow.

It would be interesting to see what data (if any) was used by the council to propose these increased fees, because as another comment noted it does seem larger chain businesses are usually on-top of snow removal because they want the foot traffic.


tonka737 t1_iwzjdf3 wrote

They just want to increase the amount of money they can earn from people who can afford to pay more. Much like most of their other fees and penalties.


BiblioPhil t1_iwzzczu wrote

Another way of putting this is, "they don't ask as much from small businesses because they know they can't afford it." Like, no shit. It's a fine on a business. It takes economies of scale into account.

I wonder what you think of progressive taxation. Actually, no I don't.


tonka737 t1_ix0qkgo wrote

>>Another way of putting this is, "they don't ask as much from small businesses because they know they can't afford it." Like, no shit. It's a fine on a business. It takes economies of scale into account.

Sure, if you ignore the current timeline it can be viewed as "not asking as much from small businesses". A disproportionate fine on a business for what exactly? They are not anymore responsible for keeping their storefront plowed than any other business.

>>I wonder what you think of progressive taxation. Actually, no I don't.

As you have correctly assumed, I don't think ppl should be taxed/penalized based on their levels of success. The government isn't responsible for anybody overachieving and is therefore not entitled to anything more than what any other citizen owes. People already get charged on earnings, sales, luxuries, property, etc. That should suffice to cover what transpires on the land being governed. If you're going to charge somebody more than you will another than that person should/better receive benefits matching/justifying their additional costs. However that's not to say that I'm against very basic social safety nets.


IllegibleLedger t1_ix39rrc wrote

Lmao yeah because everyone with wealth is a successful overachiever who earned it all themselves


tonka737 t1_ix3e8nb wrote

You're right. I forgot that only ppl who inherit wealth are subject to the progressive tax bracket. In fact, the ppl who inherited their wealth are the majority of the people affected. It also doesn't affect ppl who get a second job/work overtime.

EDOT: Not to mention its none of your business if the target is not an overachiever.


Malfunctioned t1_ix0lume wrote

I know a number of (small) independent retail businesses (food, services) that don't open until 10am-noon and don't come early to shovel. I bet their reasoning is that it is cheaper to get an occasional ticket (if any) than to come hours early (getting stuck in the morning commune) just to clear the snow or hire someone else (which is not always cheap during high demand snow days). The chance of getting a ticket is likely very low since DSNY don't have a lot of staff for enforcement and pedestrian has gotten used to walking over it.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwz72v9 wrote

That’s my point. The fine should be the same. If you don’t have resources, you shouldn’t be in business. This is basic site maintenance and failure to shovel is both a danger to everyone, and specifically is an attack on disabled people. Imagine making the argument that you should pay a deminimis fine to not comply with the ADA bc you are a small business. Or that you should be largely exempt from anti discrimination laws.


yankuniz t1_iwzc1o5 wrote

Fines should be proportional. I know wealthy people who park wherever they want because the fines are negligible to them. The same fines may be debilitating in the short term for a person living paycheck to paycheck. The point of fines are not just punitive, they are a deterrent. The same should apply to businesses. The fine should hurt to prevent the unwanted action from ever occurring. That being said i don’t think businesses need the incentive to shovel the snow. This seems like misplaced energy


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwzezua wrote

I’m confused by your last two sentences? Can you explain?


yankuniz t1_iwzfsd5 wrote

Just that in my experience in nyc businesses do a pretty good job of shoveling the snow. They are already incentivized by wanting customers to come in but not wanting them to fall and hurt themselves and possibly sue. There are certainly weather events that test our abilities but generally it doesn’t seem to be a major issue in nyc.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwzgqwd wrote

That is often true for businesses that are open.

However, the storefront vacancy rate is 12% in NYC. It is 25% in my neighborhood. Couple that with office vacancies, and you have anywhere from 1/4 to 1/6 office/retail properties where there is no tenant. In those situations you often see these problems. If a single property on a street is unshoveled, that entire street is dangerous for the disabled and elderly. In my own neighborhood, there is never a sidewalk block that is 100% shoveled.


yankuniz t1_iwzigxa wrote

This is true and I hadn’t considered unoccupied spaces when we were talking about businesses. And it’s true that when one area of a sidewalk is not shoveled it creates a hazardous situation where your forced to wither double back or climb into the street or continue over the snowed area. When there are areas left unshoveled they often turn into uneven icy pathways from people walking over them, which creates a hazard that remains long after snow is melted


Phaedrusnyc t1_ix2ns9z wrote

My experience is that their incentive for customers to come in often leads to them making a path from the street directly to their door and screw anyone who is a pedestrian and actually just wants to walk past the building.


tonka737 t1_iwzlbp6 wrote

Parking fines are barely meant as deterrent and are sometimes made/structured as a means of generating revenue off of citizens.

For example, ASP is a crock of shit. If its okay to clean streets once a week in the Bronx or Brooklyn why are certain residential areas in Manhattan set to be cleaned twice a week? It's one thing if its downtown Manhattan where there is a lot of foot traffic and therefore litter but certain parts of upper Manhattan seem like a meal ticket for the city. That and sanitation doesn't pull through somedays but won't cancel ASP and ticket you anyway even though they can and do cancel ASP for other reasons.

That's just one example. Pretty sure there are plenty of other examples where the city targets groups they feel they can get money from.

EDIT: Another example is ticketing quotas/BS tickets ppl are given but choose to pay because the opportunity cost of fighting the ticket is more than going to work.


NO63foryou t1_iwztyeb wrote

To be fair, some Bronx residents just prop their hoods up when the sweeper comes. And it’s always the same cars that does it.

And then when you tell them to move they become confrontational about it.

Just move your car and park back after the sweeper comes thru.

Now imagine the Bronx get twice the street cleaning, haha..


RChickenMan t1_iwzwabb wrote

I think to a certain degree you're right, but on the other hand, what choice do we have? We all know that drivers come nowhere close to covering the cost of the infrastructure and services they use. Every single proposal to fix that is met with petulant whining, whether it be paid parking permits, congestion pricing, tolls, higher gas taxes, etc. So we need to get a little creative in getting these people to cover the cost of the infrastructure and services they use, and parking tickets are part of that solution.


AdroitBeagle t1_iwzbztr wrote

Question: how does the content of a lease play into this? Commercial leases always say whether the landlord or tenant is responsible for snow removal. With smaller tenants, usually the landlord eats the cost; with larger tenants, usually the tenant. Maybe that’s why it’s targeted at chains, because the market practice is for them to handle snow shoveling anyway.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwzewya wrote

The fine goes to the owner of the building. The owner is then responsible to enforce a tenant’s obligations under the lease if they have agreed to do so.


myassholealt t1_iwzt7s8 wrote

Yes, a billion-dollar corporation should be paying the same fine that a single store that makes at best 1 million in annual sales. Great way to ensure only the rich can play.


Johnnadawearsglasses t1_iwzvfl0 wrote

Can play what? The shovel your sidewalk game? I didn't realize you needed a multi billion dollar balance sheet to pay a guy to come 5x a year. Next thing you'll tell me is why small businesses should be able to pay employees less

And ps - a store still makes 1m a year whether it's owned by someone else or not.


RAXIZZ t1_iwzhm8u wrote

> Why only chain stores?

The honest answer is that they don't vote. If you tried to do this for homes, you'd have neighborhood associations making sure you don't get re-elected.


toastfuker t1_ix2stv9 wrote

I would assume because the city can extort more money from them.


TrekkerMcTrekkerface t1_iwzd1x4 wrote

Justice should needs to be blind. Picking and choosing different groups to get different penalties is a terrible idea. Jack up the fees for all.


hornyjacks t1_iwzk8ei wrote

I see you are in the "corporations are people" category.


huebomont t1_ix1vjva wrote

what does this mean, when you peel back the snark and articulate your actual opinion on this? do you think it makes sense to have a law just for certain types of property owners about snow removal? why?


NetQuarterLatte t1_iwzf0f9 wrote

Make it proportional to the footage of sidewalk?


RAXIZZ t1_iwzhi35 wrote

> Make it proportional to the footage of sidewalk?

For somebody in a wheelchair or pushing a stroller, there's not much difference between 10 feet of ice and 20 feet of ice. Both are basically impossible to pass.


spicytoastaficionado t1_iwzs2xo wrote

We're like a year away from a proposal for parking tickets to be based on year/make/model of car.


huebomont t1_ix1vmh1 wrote

they should be based on the income of the owner - value of car could be a decent proxy. not a bad idea


Hrekires t1_ix0pbnp wrote

Can someone be put in charge of clearing the snow from corners?

This reads like it's targeted at midtown but my experience walking to/from work in Manhattan in the winter is pristine sidewalks and then you get to an intersection and every corner is like a super narrow path of slush and ice


catschainsequel t1_iwzzdbz wrote

NYC desperate to make up budget shortfalls


FrenchToastForDinner t1_ix020vt wrote

Which is ironic because if cops enforced parking/speeding violations (including their own shady asses) the city would have so much revenue


grandzu t1_ix1aq95 wrote

Moving violation fines get split with the state, that's why NYC doesn't really enforce them.


visitor987 t1_ix04k79 wrote

A fine still leaves the sidewalk blocked. The city should hire people to clear uncleaned sidewalks and the bill the owner for the service.

If they increase the fine too high might make it worth while for someone to take it to federal courts under the 13th amendment?


RAXIZZ t1_iwzgg7u wrote

The easier solution would be for the city to clear the sidewalks. If DOT can plow all the roads every time it snows, they should have no trouble doing sidewalks too. Otherwise you'll always end up with 25% of outer borough homeowners just not giving a shit and risking the tiny chance that they'll actually be fined.

If Canada can do it, we can too:

> Toronto is the third major winter city in North America to employ a city-wide sidewalk snow clearing program, along with Montreal and Ottawa.


grandzu t1_ix00e9j wrote

Yet NYC is forbidden from fining any property operated by municipality, city, state, or federal government which is a lot of places.


bsanchey t1_ix0uhnx wrote

Just move your money from your right pocket to your left.


dhdhdfjffjj t1_ix0l843 wrote

Soon enough someone will smarten up buy a ghost town in Utah, and make the town the owner, amount of shit you can get away with is probably so much more then just snow shoveling


DawgsWorld t1_ix13t05 wrote

Our City Council hard at work trying to extract money from anyone they perceive as having more than them.


bsanchey t1_ix0u66f wrote

Fines don’t matter if there’s no action to collect. You’ll be shocked how much chain stores have outstanding in fines that are never collected. So it doesn’t matter


Mdayofearth t1_ix0w6sc wrote

That's because $100 is nothing, and $1000 isn't much if the store is pulling in a lot and $5000 after a few $1000 fines is a head start. It should be closer to $10k fine for large national chains.


bsanchey t1_ix0wgf1 wrote

You would be surprise how much fines like McDonald’s already has on the books. My point is that no one actively enforces collections. Most companies get forced to pay when they needs something more from the city. Amount doesn’t matter


Mdayofearth t1_ix0wjdl wrote

Don't confuse the franchise with the franchisee.


bsanchey t1_ix10xoq wrote

I’m not it’s because the run on a franchise model that these fines are unenforceable. A store get a fine the individual owner refuses to pay. Corporate refuses to pay. And the city won’t levy the corporate bank accounts and until all the stores building up millions in fines the sheriff won’t padlock the businesses.

It’s a useless gesture that solves nothing.


Mdayofearth t1_ix1ijzs wrote

The City wouldn't be fining McDonalds. The owner of the franchise would get fined.


_Maxolotl t1_iwz97dp wrote

What about fining people who shovel snow out of their parking spaces and into my bike lane?


tonka737 t1_iwziwli wrote

Where else should it be shoveled? Do I sue the city for plowing it onto my car? The snow doesn't go away. It's thrown out of the way.


SanManDan14 t1_iwzsx18 wrote

Your property


anarchyx34 t1_iwzur25 wrote

What “property”? Should people take the snow up to their apartments in buckets to melt in the bathtub?


Warpedme t1_ix17eji wrote

It absolutely should not be the responsibility of businesses or residents of NYC to remove snow from the sidewalk. That should fall entirely on the DSNY. It would be far more reliable and better done if they did.


IllegibleLedger t1_ix39vec wrote

You think DSNY should shovel every sidewalk in the entire city in the course of a few hours?


Warpedme t1_ix3hhux wrote

If they are doing that much sidewalk space they can easily buy those socialized snow removal ATV-like machines that the wealthy buildings use.

I would be more reasonable about the time it takes but I would fully expect them to clear all sidewalks, in all 4 boroughs, faster, better and far more efficiently than it currently is done.


IllegibleLedger t1_ix3idmq wrote

You get that during all this time DSNY is generally fully occupied clearing streets and roads right?


Warpedme t1_ix3k5fw wrote

You get that they can hire people for this? They don't even need to be full time. Hell, I know at least two dozen people (including myself) who would sign up to only be employed on snow days to do exactly this.


IllegibleLedger t1_ix3l9qp wrote

And DSNY gets that money where? By all means go and push for this as it could get thousands employed temporarily and solve the issue but it would take a literal citizens’ movement to set this up and allocate the funds, maintain it and so on. The minute a dollar gets wasted the Post will be out there doxxing you with the headline SLOPPY SNOW JOB at the top. But seriously go for it I’d love to see it happen


sanjsrik t1_ix16rya wrote

But, the thousands upon thousands of stores allowed to sit empty that's fine.


tigermomo t1_ix17mj7 wrote

Looking at you Burger King !!


Phaedrusnyc t1_ix2nmam wrote

The number of people defending chain stores is weird. Considering the number of times I've seen elderly people almost face plant in front of the Banana Republic outlet near me (and the fact that I have TRIED the polite route with these people only to be told, "Yeah, we were supposed to have someone come in but they didn't" with a shrug) and the fact that by the time 311 gets someone out there there's a fifty/fifty shot the ice has already melted, I honestly can't find it in my heart to bitch about disproportionate punishment or whatever ideological thing is getting people's jockeys ib a twist.