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Shawn_NYC t1_iwuxagf wrote

Did the article say 2 different men died from the same type of assault at the same bar? And many others report the same crime happening to them as well?

How hard is it to catch murderers when you know exactly where they're going to be and more or less exactly when they'll be commiting the next crime?

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darthTharsys t1_iwuxxwf wrote

They occurred at the same bar but the first one had some continued stuff in east village i remember reading. But in both cases there's been three people who shuffle the victim into a cab then they end up dead with their bank accounts drained.

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StopKK2012 t1_iwuydi0 wrote

What article did you read? This one literally says both victims were targeted at the same bar, the Q.

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maverick4002 t1_iwuzm1o wrote

He is talking about the incident at The Ritz in the summer time. I didn't hear about anything like this at the Q

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darthTharsys t1_iwuyjz9 wrote

I misspoke. There was another article a while back about the first victim and I recall it mentioning the people taking him to east village or something.

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DudeIjustdid t1_iwvy67z wrote

That place was a dump when it was Latitude, sounds like it hasn’t changed much.

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Simple-Rule-7665 t1_iwyqqhn wrote

Julio Ramirez left the Ritz Bar on W. 46 Street in Manhattan. Another man (from out of town), unidentified, left a bar in the same general area a couple of weeks later and died. John Umberger left The Q NYC on Eighth Avenue on May 28th and later died. It turns out a college student had gone to The Q in early April, befriended three young men, brought them to the East Side (where he lived with a roommate). The student and roommate woke up to find they had been cleaned out. The student's cards were later used during a shopping spree in SoHo.

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itiswhatitis4444 t1_iwv12el wrote

Why aren’t they viewing cameras where they used the cards? Or the accounts associated with the transfer of money from their Venmo’s?

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mandix t1_iwvde9j wrote

Multiple factors...

These events happened a long time ago IIRC for some reason they are just reaching the media so the data/surveillance may be difficult to find.

You need to subpeona these companies and it could take a while to get the data... once you get the data it might not be that useful. Venmo has very loose KYC rules compared to a real bank. Venmo is just really a big money laundering tool IMO.

Society wise gay men are not as high on the totem pole as a pretty white ladies stories... so stories like this don't really gain traction because society doesn't care... remember how those divers and people who had nothing to do with the missing youtube lady did everything they could to find them... the invisible powers at be don't care... It's sad truth when on fringe of the society... so many trans people are murdered every month.

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itiswhatitis4444 t1_iwve52u wrote

No I think Venmo is tied to bank accounts if that’s what they did. These cases aren’t that old I believe all within the year.

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Simple-Rule-7665 t1_iwypxtf wrote

Julio Ramirez died on April 21st, 2022. John Umberger died on May 28, 2022.

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whateverisok t1_iww37mb wrote

Venmo is not a money laundering tool unless you're dealing with laundering super low $$,$$$ per month.

Everything has to be linked to a bank account, which is completely verified and has all your info, they have checks on the amount that you can send per day, per person, and per timeframe (say a week or month) and don't support multiple accounts on the same device (so you'd have to log in and out of multiple accounts on the same device, which is time intensive and likely to trigger a flag in their system saying the device used 7 different Venmo accounts to send/receive money).

The banks also have their safeguards in place, so you can't just deposit $,$$$ from several Venmo accounts to the same bank account.

And you can't send the crypto you purchase on Venmo (through your Venmo wallet/deposit from bank account) to anyone.

Keep in mind, Venmo is US-based and owned by PayPal (US-based), which is a publicly traded company and subject to all the audits/lawsuits/protections there are

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elizabeth-cooper t1_iwvk6zm wrote

> These events happened a long time ago IIRC for some reason they are just reaching the media so the data/surveillance may be difficult to find.

No, they aren't. They were writing about Julio Ramirez quite a while back. The cops are not just finding out about his murder now. The last I'd heard they were waiting for the full autopsy results.

>You need to subpeona these companies and it could take a while to get the data... once you get the data it might not be that useful. Venmo has very loose KYC rules compared to a real bank. Venmo is just really a big money laundering tool IMO.

This is much more likely. Crooks aren't stupid. Stolen credit cards, stolen identities, offshore companies - cops end up with nothing useful.

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ZweitenMal t1_iwur3ul wrote

Seems like a sting operation would be rather easy to do. Does the NYPD not care about nabbing these monsters?

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StrngBrew t1_iwuw9kb wrote

This is “rather easy” in a Law & Order episode. Not so easy in real life.

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Duchock t1_iwuypbd wrote

SVU rules don't apply in real life? I'm shook.

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k1lk1 t1_iwurxlq wrote

How exactly do you propose they do this?

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OneYungGun t1_iwuulsk wrote

Watch the music video for Beer for My Horses by Toby Keith. That is what OP is imagining.

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ambushbugger t1_iwvyrbf wrote

Police work? I'd like to think detectives know more than I do from watching brooklyn 99.

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ZweitenMal t1_iwuv6d3 wrote

Send in a series of undercover cops until one gets marked by this team of murdering thieves.

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k1lk1 t1_iwuvyb8 wrote

It was 2 murders in 3 months, the last of which was in June. Probably not a great use of undercover resources.

Also very likely this looked like a normal pickup attempt until the drinks were spiked, so what you're suggesting is that cops stake out clubs and fend off hundreds, maybe thousands, of pickup attempts, over months or years, until a guy roofies their drink. And you have to test the drink after every single one, because otherwise you don't know if they've roofied it and therefore if you found the bad guys.

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lickedTators t1_iwv0mty wrote

> Also very likely this looked like a normal pickup attempt until the drinks were spiked, so what you're suggesting is that cops stake out clubs and fend off hundreds, maybe thousands, of pickup attempts, over months or years, until a guy roofies their drink.

I'll become a cop for this job.

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Calm-Heat-5883 t1_iwv8mcl wrote

For the drinks or the pickups? You're coming back with both...I know it lol 😆

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ZweitenMal t1_iwux7oc wrote

Obviously gay lives don't matter. /s

There is a pattern. The victims are prescreened. Watching for pickups where the antagonists ask prying questions to determine who has assets they can steal, and then tries to get the victim to go with them to a different location, should be effective. We know of two druggings and robberies that went bad. How many others have there been?

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k1lk1 t1_iwuxosy wrote

Prying questions like a guy hitting on you in a bar asking "So what do you do?"

Trying to get the victim to leave with them, as in every pickup attempt ever?

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Rottimer t1_iwuxpzy wrote

I mean, you’d think you’d be able to follow the cash that was stolen out of their bank accounts and credit cards. It’s actually a bit disturbing that some could end up dead, with tens of thousands stolen from them through bank transactions on the same night, and the cops don’t have anyone in custody for at least wire fraud months later?

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bsanchey t1_iwva5ox wrote

No the NYPD doesn’t care. They have to stop cyclist from fixing their obscured license plates.

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[deleted] t1_iwva3en wrote

[deleted]

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eekamuse t1_iwvcsfj wrote

They sell drink covers that fit over any glass. It's pretty fucked up that this exists, but here we are.

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[deleted] t1_iwvdazt wrote

[deleted]

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mandix t1_iwvcqgm wrote

Not easy if you're drinking in a dark bar

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Kind-Base6336 t1_iww1p72 wrote

This is one of the many reasons I continue to be masc presenting. Outside of these safe spaces, it can be dangerous even in mf Hell’s Kitchen or Chelsea.

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drpvn t1_iww2ewd wrote

Can the mods please articulate what kind of posts that “relate to crime” are allowed on the main sub and which should be posted in the crime thread? It’s not at all clear.

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wabashcanonball t1_iwwut0v wrote

NYPD looks the other way, yet again. It’s been on a soft strike for two years.

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brooklynOG t1_iwvaekg wrote

Crime thread

Why downvote? This is crime related, it goes in the crime thread please

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GoRangers5 t1_iwvgfp1 wrote

BaN tHe PoLiCe FrOm PrIdE pArAdEs

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PneumoniaLisa t1_iwz8i3p wrote

This has nothing to do with that???

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GoRangers5 t1_iwzhmiy wrote

Do the police make you feel unsafe or does lack of policing make you unsafe? It can’t be both.

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