FarmSuch5021 t1_iwlgzzb wrote
Because of that bail reform there is no justice for the victims. Criminals have a free pass to do whatever they want
kanooker OP t1_iwlhav6 wrote
While it needs fixing bail reform is obviously working in NJ. Which has some of the lowest crime rates in the nation.
https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-least-and-most-crime/
NetQuarterLatte t1_iwli32l wrote
Courts in NJ have a public safety discretion though.
kanooker OP t1_iwlirvc wrote
That's why I said it needs fixing but there is a similar provision
>New York’s Criminal Procedure Law sets forth the laws on bail, and sections 530.20, 530.40, and 530.50 have revised sections. On May 9, 2022, the new laws go into effect.
>In short, the revisions give judges more discretion in deciding bail for qualifying offenses, particularly where a person has more than one case pending trial. Moving forward, a judge may consider an individual’s history of using a gun, whether they were charged with causing serious harm, and if they have violated an Order of Protection. Additionally, hate crimes and certain gun offenses are now qualifying offenses.
>Notably, however, lawmakers refused to introduce a “dangerousness” standard into bail considerations. Since 1971, New York’s bail laws have prohibited the consideration of dangerousness in setting bail.
https://pappalardolaw.com/2022/04/bail-laws-revised-ny-2022-2023-budget/
NetQuarterLatte t1_iwll98l wrote
That only addresses a fraction of repeat offenders, though.
It's a rather timid progress, but progress nonetheless.
​
>Notably, however, lawmakers refused to introduce a “dangerousness” standard into bail considerations.
"Refused" is quite an understatement.
Stewart-Cousins threatened to hold climate change and gun control bills hostage in order to block adding a dangerousness standard.
>She urged advocates to send emails and push back against calls for changing the law, such as allowing judges to consider "dangerousness when determining whether a person accused of a crime should be remanded to a local jail.
>
>...
>
>Stewart-Cousins in her talk with the activist group warned issues like gun control, efforts to curtail climate change and further criminal justice law changes are at risk of not getting done if the opponents of the bail law are successful.
kanooker OP t1_iwllx0a wrote
Yeah I'm not gonna disagree if you all would concede some things maybe they would too because this is all a pissing contest that makes everything anyone wants on the other side of anything automatically wrong.
wefarrell t1_iwlhiy1 wrote
They haven't been convicted and are not criminals.
kanooker OP t1_iwlj8vp wrote
Payton Gendron should not be allowed out on bail right?
wefarrell t1_iwln0di wrote
Of course not.
kanooker OP t1_iwlnafw wrote
What would keep him in jail if he was only charged with State charges? He has no prior gun charges. There does need to be a dangerousness standard. I say this as a progressive.
[deleted] t1_iwmxmvb wrote
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kanooker OP t1_iwmyumu wrote
Well maybe conservatives should focus on that one part instead of the whole law and you can change minds but they'd rather go scorched earth because it's a better political strategy for a power grab.
A conservative governor in NJ did it. Why can't they?
drpvn t1_iwnerih wrote
Better yet, rather than rant about what conservatives do, you should write or call your state senator or assemblyperson and say that you believe there should be a dangerousness standard. Let them know that their progressive constituents disagree with them on this so they don’t just assume it’s only conservatives who feel that way.
wefarrell t1_iwloze8 wrote
Right, jail should be used to protect the rest of society from potentially dangerous individuals while they wait for trial.
It should not be used as a means of punishing people before they are convicted of a crime.
kanooker OP t1_iwlp507 wrote
So there should be a dangerousness standard right? Because if there wasn't he'd be out on bail.
KaiDaiz t1_iwn24ua wrote
So if Gendron failed to kill anyone that day and only maimed and charged with attempted murder of folks and say DA failed to bring case to trial in time due to backlog and whatever. Defense cites 30.30 and other things in criminal justice reform...let Gendron go? dismiss all charges due to speedy trial reform? Is he not a danger to public and will likely cause more harm& danger to community?
kanooker OP t1_iwn4lnp wrote
You're so fucking dumb. That would never happen. I'm agreeing there needs to be a dangerousness standard but you've been radicalized to disagree by reflex. Lemming.
KaiDaiz t1_iwn4pru wrote
so you allow to make a hypothetical case for your argument but I am not....got it
kanooker OP t1_iwn4sa7 wrote
That would never happen lemming.
KaiDaiz t1_iwn4wn2 wrote
but allowed per speedy trial reform right if it happen?
kanooker OP t1_iwn53i8 wrote
That's for shoplifters you want to languish at Rykers because you're a racist. Lemming
KaiDaiz t1_iwn58mv wrote
except we have cases that are not shopfitters getting off on 30.30 and guess what attempted homicides are not a exception to 30.30
kanooker OP t1_iwn5jsl wrote
Do you examples you can link to?
KaiDaiz t1_iwn5oxf wrote
page 5 of the section 30.30
kanooker OP t1_iwn5xu5 wrote
No buddy. I mean how many attempted murder cases have been thrown out?
KaiDaiz t1_iwn61ey wrote
at least 2 cited in the law you refuse to read
kanooker OP t1_iwn6dgg wrote
This is your totem isn't it? The sharp rise in crime from two people. Go on. Even the NYPost isn't saying that. Maybe you should lobby them.
KaiDaiz t1_iwn6roi wrote
way to deflect....so ok for Gendron to get off due speedy trial reform if he failed to kill anyone plus DA was backlog and failed to bring case due to time limit. got it.
kanooker OP t1_iwn6w6m wrote
[deleted] t1_iwn71y6 wrote
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[deleted] t1_iwn76xw wrote
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KaiDaiz t1_iwn7id0 wrote
its still a problem why DAs still citing how its impacting their prosecutions and even Hochul mention its on things to fix possibly in her 10 pt discussion of things to come if elected but heavily oppose by some dem elements
also still deflecting
FarmSuch5021 t1_iwlhrsi wrote
Of course innocent until proven guilty. Pushing someone on the tracks, assaulting people on the train. You are innocent and just waiting for your conviction.
wefarrell t1_iwlj29k wrote
People who push people onto tracks are not being released without bail.
FarmSuch5021 t1_iwljja7 wrote
Tell me about it. This is a convicted felon who was also on parole. He beat up a guy and fractured his skull. Released without bail. No wonder Southern Brooklyn voted Republican.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/bui-van-phu-released-without-bail-bronx-sucker-punch-attack/
HEIMDVLLR t1_iwlnqym wrote
Why are southern Brooklyn voters, voting Republican, over a crime committed in the Bronx?
The Bronx DA has no jurisdiction over Brooklyn.
mowotlarx t1_iwlujb0 wrote
I suspect they don't know that each borough has its own elected DA and Alvin Bragg isn't the only DA for all of us.
HEIMDVLLR t1_iwlzqp4 wrote
Correct.
Even the comments about Alvin Braggs be inaccurate. If everyone didn’t like what he was campaigning on, in favor of bail reform, then why didn’t they get the message out and vote against him. Instead they blame the people that voted for him without giving any context as to how those same voters, in favor of Braggs, are directly affected by cash-bails and the conditions of Rikers Island.
[deleted] t1_iwlm6am wrote
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