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ToffeeFever t1_iz7sc6q wrote

Reply to comment by AugustWest7120 in Influential NYC comedy club Caroline's closing after 40 years by broadcastterp

NIMBYs and property being quickly gobbled up by private equity and foreign interests taking the "fun" out of Fun City.

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Rthymrug t1_iz7ypl7 wrote

NIMBY has nothing to do with this story. What is it with this sub and the past couple months it's NIMBY this or NIMBY that. My only take away is that people have no idea what they're saying.

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Pool_Shark t1_iz81xvn wrote

Idk if it’s paid Astro turfing or just some weird cult but there are people that seem to be convinced all problems in NYC could simply be resolved by building more luxury apartment buildings

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Rthymrug t1_iz83513 wrote

Foreign investors definitely seem to fit that criteria.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_iz7udbd wrote

Definitely not NIMBY, more like YIMBY gentrification.

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ToffeeFever t1_iz7xcta wrote

Gentrification of existing stock. The main reason why all my favorite spots to eat and shop at shut down, because they couldn't survive a year or two with space in short supply and rents charging a fortune without competing space cutting into it. And in many places where land were historically zoned for anything else other than retail like manufacturing (that only exists abroad now), it takes years and more added costs to get through the city's broken land review process!

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damnatio_memoriae t1_iz8p1n3 wrote

> with space in short supply

what are you even talking about. everywhere i go for at least the last five years but especially since covid, it's empty store fronts. it's not because of NIMBYs. it's because private interests own everything and prefer to keep it vacant than lower the rent.

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The_Razielim t1_iz9yzo8 wrote

Yep, there's locations that have been closed since before I moved into my current neighborhood (nearing 6 years now), and have just been vacant storefronts the entire time.

There's what used to be a small Italian(?) spot that closed maybe 1-2 weeks after I moved into this neighborhood that has just been shuttered for the last 5.5 years.

It's absolutely ridiculous how many things are allowed to just sit empty, doing nothing.

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mrpotatoe3044 t1_izakav8 wrote

Ironically, NIMBYism is major driver of gentrification. Most people in lower income neighborhoods don't own their property and they get priced out when the supply can't keep up with the demand.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_izanx38 wrote

Gentrification is definitely behind the YIMBY shit. They avoid the local mom and pop establishments and open/support the new businesses. Unless one of them “discovers” the spot and gives the okay via an IG reel or local blog write up.

The local businesses are forced to make upgrades to their façade and stock new/artisanal products, to accommodate the transplants. If they don’t, they go out of business because their loyal customer base has been priced out of the neighborhood.

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mrpotatoe3044 t1_izaqlwk wrote

You have the directionality wrong. Locals won't be priced out of neighborhoods if the city actually built adequate housing stock to keep up with demand. Not expanding housing stock doesn't prevent gentrification, it actually worsens it. High income earners will still flock to these neighborhoods because even they get priced out of the more "attractive" neighborhoods, which they then push out the people who have lived there.

If there was enough housing stock in the first place, there would be no pressure on these neighborhoods. If these neighborhoods had adequate housing stock, then they could absorb these transplants without displacing the people who formerly lived there.

The only benefactors from NIMBYism are property owners, as it artificially inflates their asset. Unfortunately this demographic is one of the most consistent voting blocks, which is why the city council is almost entirely NIMBY, and they'd prefer shit like a parking garage then approving high density housing.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_izaugvm wrote

> Locals won't be priced out of neighborhoods if the city actually built adequate housing stock to keep up with demand.

The demand will never go down unless the city goes bankrupt and NYC becomes the “City of God”, like in the late 60s, early 70s.

Explain the real reason why gentrification exploded. People are getting priced out be the new residents are willing to pay 2x-3x the rent. They avoid the established businesses that the locals supported. They complain about the local customs/activities/noises, in turn criminalizing/punishing the locals.

Just look at the mircomobility movement. NYC always had cyclist of all ages. But after gentrification popped up, they became anti-car and swear the MTA has no flaws.

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mrpotatoe3044 t1_izaw4bl wrote

You're right, the demand for NYC will never disappear, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to keep up with demand. In fact, NYC hasn't even been trying. Construction growth has mostly flatlined since the 1990s and NYC issues fewer housing permits then nearly every other large city, clearly under-building is not working. We can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend like people won't flock to NYC, people will, and it will only displace more residents if we do nothing.

Yes, transplants may like different things than long term residents, but like I said, if we had adequate housing stock they wouldn't displace the locals in the first place.

You seem like you're arguing a strawman of the micromobility movement, something I am only loosely aware of. I'll eat my hat if you can find anyone who claims "the MTA has no flaws".

It's ironic you cite car ownership as a trait unique to lower income locals, considering the majority of new yorkers don't have a car, and those that do tend to have higher incomes. Car ownership is directly correlated with income in NYC, which means the "transplants" you have been deriding are the population most likely to own a car.

https://wellango.github.io/posts/2021/06/who-owns-cars-in-nyc/

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HEIMDVLLR t1_izb7nct wrote

I see you drank somebodies koolaid. Your comments reek of a realty broker transplant. No level of vacant properties will decrease the demand. As someone else stated there’s a lot residential and commercial vacancies in the city currently.

Gentrification is pushing out local low-income and middle-class families. Not because of a “stock” shortage, but because they can afford to pay 3x the asking price.

You’re right, not everyone owns a car but we understand pumping more money into the MTA isn’t the answer. Transit deserts, have been ignored by the MTA and the micro-mobility advocates. Thats because the transit deserts are undesirable to the transplants, “because it’s too far from the subway”. Even though those communities have zero congestion.

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mrpotatoe3044 t1_izbrw6z wrote

>. As someone else stated there’s a lot residential and commercial vacancies in the city currently.

Ah, I see my mistake was presuming you had any amount of good faith in commenting. It's obvious you don't. But just to go through why you're so incredibly wrong.

NYC vacancies are at all time low https://www.globest.com/2022/09/12/nyc-multifamily-vacancy-rate-hovers-at-two-decade-low/?slreturn=20221107175941. This is a neglible amount of vacancies. 97% of NYC office buildings aren't viable for conversion to apt buildings.

"Not because of a “stock” shortage, but because they can afford to pay 3x the asking price"

This is factually wrong, once again. 97.7% percent of homes were sold for approximately the asking price.

https://www.noradarealestate.com/blog/new-york-real-estate-market/#:~:text=In%20September%202022%2C%20the%20median,the%20asking%20price%20on%20average

"Thats because the transit deserts are undesirable to the transplants, “because it’s too far from the subway”. Even though those communities have zero congestion"

Sounds a lot like someone drank the "pro-car" koolaid, your comment reeks like that of an entitled driver. I'm assuming you own a car lmao? The obvious answer here is to expand the MTA to these deserts and bus service.

Your entire argument is based on your anecdotal feelings & emotions. There is no merit to them, whatsoever. But i'm sure you will ignore this comment and call me a good for nothing transplant.

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