Comments
oreosfly t1_j25bxcb wrote
There's no enforcement against truck drivers in the city. They just take whatever route they want. I've seen 53 footers on local streets attempting to make turns down residential one ways. Fuck them.
beagle_bathouse t1_j25n9tz wrote
I've seen an 18 wheel try to turn onto a numbered residential street from an ave, get stuck, and rip 2 parked cars apart backing out. Ave traffic was blocked for like 30+ minutes and people still complain about bikes :/
thesweetestchill_ t1_j26irmx wrote
Taking out parked cars every day trying to turn off narrow one ways. It’s insanity.
tinydancer_inurhand t1_j290id0 wrote
Just the other day one had to back out in Astoria cause he tried to turn onto a narrow residential. Cops were right down the block ordering food from the truck without a care.
ken81987 t1_j26g4xk wrote
Cars are legal murder weapons
HEIMDVLLR t1_j259q85 wrote
There was a two-way bike lane across the street from where Kala was killed.
beagle_bathouse t1_j25mw7m wrote
It was 100% legal for her to be riding in the street. It was legally ambiguous at best for the truck to be even on that street, and the maneuver they made to pass her was illegal. Now shes dead and it's her fault?
This is like when someone gets shot or assaulted and someone comes out and says "oh well they shouldn't have been out so late", "What were they doing in that neighborhood", "They should have known better". Bitch, that car broke the law, she did not, now shes dead. stfu.
edit: getting the 'a redditor is concerned about you' admin alert is honestly so satisfying because you know you pissed someone off enough to actually make them go out of their way and make a dozen clicks.
HEIMDVLLR t1_j2937j9 wrote
> It was 100% legal for her to be riding in the street. It was legally ambiguous at best for the truck to be even on that street, and the maneuver they made to pass her was illegal. Now shes dead and it's her fault?
Then what’s the point of the bike lanes? If they’re optional then why have them? Why advocate for ticketing cars for driving or parking in the bike lanes?
> This is like when someone gets shot or assaulted and someone comes out and says "oh well they shouldn't have been out so late", "What were they doing in that neighborhood", "They should have known better". Bitch, that car broke the law, she did not, now shes dead. stfu.
No the fuck it’s not!
There is no designated path for someone wishing to avoid gun carriers, stray bullets or other aggressive pedestrians. Just like there’s no way to avoid aggressive drivers or cyclist!
Ignoring the bike path to ride in the street with the cars and commercial vehicles is more equivalent to a pedestrian crossing a highway, ignoring the pedestrian bridge or a subway rider crossing the tracks instead of using the pedestrian tunnel underneath / bridge above.
beagle_bathouse t1_j296jwj wrote
>Then what’s the point of the bike lanes? If they’re optional then why have them? Why advocate for ticketing cars for driving or parking in the bike lanes?
Bike lanes can offer a safer alternative to the street. Sometimes they are less safe if they are blocked, not maintained or have pedestrians in them. Sometimes, like on this road, there are a line of parked cars between the street and the bike lane and you have to ride down the street before entering the bike lane. Regardless, it is legal and logical for bikes to ride in the street.
>No the fuck it’s not!
It is.
> Ignoring the bike path to ride in the street with the cars and commercial vehicles is more equivalent to a pedestrian crossing a highway, ignoring the pedestrian bridge or a subway rider crossing the tracks instead of using the pedestrian tunnel underneath / bridge above.
No. All those examples you give are illegal behavior and people using infrastructure in a way it was not designed to be used. She was 100% in the right and did nothing wrong by riding her bike in the street. Legally and operationally street infrastructure is not just for trucks and cars, it is for bikes, motor cycles, scooters and some micro mobility as well.
She was legally in the right and you're just coming up with excuses for this person who killed her while breaking the law so that you can be what? Convenienced? Is it a culture wars "anti-bike" thing? I think you're purposefully ignoring the fact that two people were involved in this incident. One broke the law and killed someone. One followed the law and died anyway. You are telling me the person who broke the law and killed someone did nothing wrong, a very smooth brained take. Keep it real my dude.
InfernalTest t1_j29s16f wrote
or maybe she just shouldnt have been in the lane with cars and trucks ....
HEIMDVLLR t1_j29zzrc wrote
> Bike lanes can offer a safer alternative to the street.
Exactly, that was my original point! They’re a safer than riding in the street with 2+ ton vehicles. Same reason why we have sidewalks and crosswalks that pedestrians use, instead of walking in the street.
> Sometimes they are less safe if they are blocked, not maintained or have pedestrians in them. Sometimes, like on this road, there are a line of parked cars between the street and the bike lane and you have to ride down the street before entering the bike lane. Regardless, it is legal and logical for bikes to ride in the street.
Walk the bike until it’s safe to ride in the bike path.
> It is.
It’s not.
> No. All those examples you give are illegal behavior and people using infrastructure in a way it was not designed to be used. She was 100% in the right and did nothing wrong by riding her bike in the street. Legally and operationally street infrastructure is not just for trucks and cars, it is for bikes, motor cycles, scooters and some micro mobility as well.
Yes. Those examples are the equivalent to what happened. I don’t wish death on anyone but I wished she had used better judgment and not take any chances. I’m saying this as a driver that doesn’t feel comfortable around trucks on the expressways.
> She was legally in the right and you're just coming up with excuses for this person who killed her while breaking the law so that you can be what? Convenienced? Is it a culture wars "anti-bike" thing? I think you're purposefully ignoring the fact that two people were involved in this incident. One broke the law and killed someone. One followed the law and died anyway. You are telling me the person who broke the law and killed someone did nothing wrong, a very smooth brained take. Keep it real my dude.
No she’s not. Bikes are required to use the bike lane when they’re available and will be ticketed otherwise. You should know this. The bike and micromobility subs are always alerting other riders of the police ticketing riders for violating this rule!
> RCNY 4-12 (p)(3) Bicyclists should ride in usable bike lanes, unless they are blocked or unsafe for any reason. — SUMMARY OF NYS BIKE LAWS
beagle_bathouse t1_j2a5i6h wrote
>RCNY 4-12 (p)(3) Bicyclists should ride in usable bike lanes, unless they are blocked or unsafe for any reason.
This was specifically put in place by NYC to allow bicyclists to use the streets by superseding NY State VTL § 1234 which requires bikers to use a bike lane if available. In NYC they are not required to use the bike lane, as per the text you posted. "Should", unlike "shall" (the verbiage used in VTL 1234 which RCNY 4-12 (p)(3) supersedes), suggests but does not require they do the stated action. It also gives reasons, which I brought up prior, for why she may not have been in the bike lane.
Micromobility subs post about NYPD camping at spots near bridges to check for bells, lights at dusk, and people who merge into traffic at reds. They don't alert for NYPD stopping people for riding in the street because NYPD does not stop people from riding in the street.
You seem to really go above and beyond to nit pick and misinterpret the text of a NYC law when the driver here clearly violated VTL 1146 , VTL 1122, and VTL 1120, resulting in a woman's death.
If you need clarification on the law you can reach out below and they will talk it out with you on the phone:
cdavidg4 t1_j25awhp wrote
The two-way lanes has limited access points. One of those is at the intersection just after where she was hit.
And the truck was illegally off route. Caton is the truck route, not Parkside.
HEIMDVLLR t1_j2a4kii wrote
I agree the truck shouldn’t have been on that road. This also applies to cyclist not using the two-way bike lane when one is present. If the bike lane isn’t safe, and the street isn’t safe, get off the bike and walk.
Your life isn’t worth proving a point.
cdavidg4 t1_j2ayuol wrote
The bike lane has limited access points. You can't use it if you can't get in it. She was riding in the street to the next intersection where you enter the lane.
She wasn't proving a point, she was just trying to commute and didn't do anything wrong. 100% of the blame is on the truck that didn't exercise due care and was off route. You know, actual law breaking.
simeonbachos t1_j25icrt wrote
All those tough-on-crime bloodthirsty demons never have shit to say about this
PandaJ108 t1_j25qzxa wrote
Last I check most street safety advocates demand better infrastructure instead of arresting drivers because the latter contributes to the “prison state”.
But suspended drivers who cause a fatal accident should do time in prison. People who leave the scene of an accident should do time. Licensed individuals who stay at the scene, i think that should be handled civilly.
Die-Nacht t1_j28vt0r wrote
> the latter contributes to the “prison state”.
That's not why (though that's a good point). The reason is because we believe in solving the problem at it's root, not just punishing ppl who normally are just reacting to the design of the street.
You can't have a wide, straight street and then not expect speeders.
> But suspended drivers who cause a fatal accident should do time in prison. People who leave the scene of an accident should do time.
I've never met anyone who has said that those ppl shouldn't do time. At that point, we're out of the street design convo. It is obviously criminal.
> Licensed individuals who stay at the scene, i think that should be handled civilly.
And there lies the problem. Most crashes are NOT criminally intended. They are just a random person who was a bit too sleepy or wasn't paying attention. That's where street design comes in: it force that person, who's not paying attention, to slow down. Additionally, reduce demand for that person to even be driving by providing alternatives (bus lanes, bike lanes, etc).
Halfhand84 t1_j28n8tb wrote
Strongly agree. A motor vehicle is a 1 ton+ hunk of metal moving at potentially deadly speed. People need to respect the responsibility that entails. Far too many don't.
Anyway r/fuckcars
Captaintripps t1_j292jcs wrote
Crime aficionados do not consider this crime a crime. They don’t consider wage theft a crime. They don’t consider breaking housing law to be a crime. They don’t talk about any of this. They don’t actually care about crime.
[deleted] t1_j25spxo wrote
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Jack_Sandwich t1_j274lys wrote
Pretty weird dunk attempt. Both rates are disturbingly high. I would be trying to take a victory lap because there are more preventable deaths in one category versus another.
downonthesecond t1_j25zvpy wrote
Is there a difference between accidental traffic deaths and intentional shooting deaths?
simeonbachos t1_j263fzv wrote
In a way, no: dead is dead. But random traffic violence is much more likely than the forms of random violence that Manhattan Institute types write op eds about. As a resident with no beef and a spouse that doesn’t own a gun, in much more likely to be hurt by a car than some other criminal
[deleted] t1_j264xnm wrote
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HashtagDadWatts t1_j28tnnn wrote
Not all traffic deaths are accidental. Many of them are caused by negligent or reckless driving that goes unpunished.
casicua t1_j271ijr wrote
Yes. Next stupid question, please.
casicua t1_j25fajt wrote
In the last few years I’ve lost count of the number of idiots whom I’ve witnessed recklessly driving right in front of on duty NYPD cops and don’t even get pulled over. They could hit and run right in front of a cop and I’d give a 50/50 shot on whether the cop even reacts.
The NYPD intentionally refuse do their jobs and then will blame the protests or CCRB for it. The one thing they could easily do to actually improve safety in this city, and instead they’re sitting around playing candy crush in their squad cars whining about how no one respects them enough.
PandaJ108 t1_j272owf wrote
Many hit and run drivers are repeat offenders. As is the case with most crime, its people that have been repeatedly arrested/cited over and over again.
Man, 47, charged with driving with suspended license in Staten Island crash that killed 3 teens
The guy already had a suspended license (either due to the accumulation of numerous tickets or previous arrest), he kept on driving. Since he stayed at the scene he avoided more serious charges and was released the same day. He probably out driving still with a suspended license.
“The defendant has been released on his own recognizance and is due back in Criminal Court on Aug. 18, according to public records.”
Motorist whose girlfriend died in freak NYC car fall had suspended license: cops
Webcrims case update showing above driver was immediately released on recognizance
BiblioPhil t1_j28wk73 wrote
This doesn't really address the previous point.
I mean it does prove that technically cops do their jobs occasionally, I'll give you that. Doesn't mean they aren't playing candy crush and doesn't mean that when they do get off their asses, they actually follow protocol.
casicua t1_j2eioch wrote
Not sure what the point is here - is it that you think cops should just not do their jobs since repeat offenders will just continue to hit & run, or that we need harsher punishments for hit & run offenders?
[deleted] t1_j274jo8 wrote
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[deleted] t1_j274b4k wrote
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[deleted] t1_j274fsv wrote
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TizonaBlu t1_j27u62m wrote
I saw a woman yelling outside of a cafe telling another woman to come out so she can “fuck [her] up”. I continued walking and half a block down I saw a parked police car with two cops. I told them what happened and said I was afraid the woman might do something violent. They nodded and continued chatting. I waited and they didn’t get out or drive forward.
As I walked off, they still made no attempt to move toward the cafe.
NYPD is utterly trash.
Crimsonwolf1445 t1_j2e1vjl wrote
You are not the victim. A verbal argument is not a crime and unless the victim request the police there isnt much to be done
TizonaBlu t1_j2e5gga wrote
Threat of violence is a crime, buddy boy, so is yelling such threats outside a cafe.
simps_get_the_rope t1_j273y4q wrote
Damn. Was there some major event a few years ago where loads of people went on about how the police are evil and racist and need to be defunded? Maybe law enforcement is a bit, uh, demoralized as a result?
Nah, couldn't be.
casicua t1_j275mtz wrote
Lol so they were demoralized because people wanted cops who murder black people to be held accountable and instead of saying “yes that’s a good thing” the whiny baby cops decided to pout and stop doing the jobs they’re paid to do.
Imagine being so whiny because you’re not allowed to murder people with impunity?
LivefromPhoenix t1_j27jb8s wrote
Even if this was the case (and it isn't, this complaint goes back decades), feeling sad because people criticize you isn't an excuse to not do your job. It's insane how far people like you go to coddle cops. Can you even imagine this kind of logic working for any other job?
"Sorry boss, I know I'm supposed to drive this bus but I can't because a rider hurt my feelings".
Die-Nacht t1_j28w7l2 wrote
"don't criticize cops, or they won't do their job". Amazing take. Does it work with other professions?
Don't criticize the politicians, or they won't do their job.
Don't post a bad review of that awful restaurant, or they won't get better.
Some-Ruin4706 t1_j2b2279 wrote
Man, im gonna reply to you because no sense in talking to that person you commented on. How about when everyone got angry at cops killing people and being let off the hook, they doubled down on their shitty behavior instead of owning up to it and actively looking to change. Maybe do your fucking, stop killing people and youll eventually EARN the respect the people instead of demanding it be given to you.
OldKingRob t1_j27gnol wrote
Judging by this subreddit I would have thought we were the murder capital of the world.
nationalmoz t1_j28yve1 wrote
Of course not. But an uncomfortable fact is that the murder rate remains 40% above 2013-2015 lows for third straight year.
mcollins1 t1_j2908u4 wrote
Bring back de Blasio
mowotlarx t1_j261i2l wrote
But you'll never see Eric Adams waving the bloody flag over it. Hype up less common crimes and ignore the crisis of car deaths and injuries that we deal with all the damn time.
Maybe in 2024 we can ask NYPD to do their jobs and enforce traffic laws?
koji00 t1_j259p9h wrote
Zero Vision FTW. Guess all the speed limit lowering did was raise revenue, huh?
casicua t1_j25oqa8 wrote
Yep, the reckless drivers obstruct their plates or use fake ones to dodge the camera tickets - and then drive right past the NYPD officers who won’t lift a finger to stop them.
PaperbagWriter__ t1_j272ne0 wrote
Yeah I’d they’d actually implemented Vision Zero policies who knows how well we’d be doing. But they didn’t, so I guess we’ll never know.
koji00 t1_j272w4g wrote
What do you mean? This program has been around since DeBlasio.
PaperbagWriter__ t1_j2773jj wrote
It’s been around as a buzzword, yes. But beyond the speed limit reductions very little has actually been done. Pedestrian crossings with daylighting largely haven’t arrived, bike lane installation has totally stalled. Vision Zero is supposed to be a whole holistic program of street design, we’ve done barely any of it.
PorscheLover97 t1_j27mltf wrote
They were supposed to test a raised intersection in my neighborhood, a design that forced cars to slow down when approaching the intersection.
Nothing changed. That was like two years ago, i wonder why it didn’t happen or if there’s a reason for the delay.
smallint t1_j25knfy wrote
I think it’s vision zero
AlwaysNeverNotFresh t1_j2622ay wrote
Fuck cars
r/fuckcars
[deleted] t1_j2d3hwv wrote
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HS_sadness t1_j25q7w6 wrote
Legalized murder
surpdawg t1_j28xo6i wrote
Im behind this 100%
sellingCACforCock t1_j273n9j wrote
Bro you changed the title of the article: near equal to shooting deaths
And even in the article it’s
1.247 people killed in car crashes on New York City streets in 2022
- 246 people were killed with guns in the city this year as of Christmas Day, mirroring the number of people killed by drivers.
Which says a lot since there are way more car owners than gun owners (legal or illegal) in the city
ER301 OP t1_j28tkcv wrote
I didn’t change the title of the article, I wrote an original title for the thread I created. Is my title inaccurate?
sellingCACforCock t1_j28u2av wrote
It is. It’s near equal, As per the article.
ER301 OP t1_j28u9io wrote
You yourself noted there were 247 traffic deaths and 246 shooting deaths. So how is my title inaccurate?
sellingCACforCock t1_j28uidy wrote
Because 1 more death isn’t surpassing in terms of statistics. You can’t make that distinction when the numbers are that close
ER301 OP t1_j28upd0 wrote
LOL. Ok…
sellingCACforCock t1_j28vqiz wrote
I mean saying “near equal” won’t get you the upvotes/affirmation you want so I can see why you intentionally worded it the way you did
ER301 OP t1_j28wd59 wrote
So you lose the debate, and then as a last resort pivot to personal insults. 👍
Have a nice day.
sellingCACforCock t1_j28whi2 wrote
There’s nothing insulting about wanting to find validation, we all have different ways of going about it
BiblioPhil t1_j28wurh wrote
247>246. I'll take my Fields medal now.
beagle_bathouse t1_j2a7l7x wrote
sur·pass (sər-păs′)
tr.v. sur·passed, sur·pass·ing, sur·pass·es
To be greater than, as in degree or quality; exceed
"The cost of the project surpassed its budget projections."
R_M_T t1_j26pwcq wrote
Why is this a surprise? If half the amount of auto fatalities were reported on in the same capacity as gun deaths, people would think twice behind the wheel.
Sadly, auto accidents don’t make for flashy headlines or stimulate the comment section enough to have have light shed upon them.
God bless everyone who has suffered from an auto accident. The side effects can be truly haunting
virtual_adam t1_j259pmj wrote
Time to forcefully lock up reckless drivers (say, 15 traffic points) in mental institutions, before they hurt anyone
Carmilla31 t1_j26whx0 wrote
Vision Zero is an absolute failure.
Ratsorozzo t1_j297ius wrote
Increase the number of car free streets
KaiDaiz t1_j26wafo wrote
Laws and charges regarding serious injury & death needs to be updated and need to be priorotity. The courts are backed up and criminals are escaping justice out due to speedy trial reform. Naturally car related crimes are bottom of the totem pole and worst - vehicular manslaughter is explicitly written as not one of the homicidal exceptions to speedy trial reforms.
As of now, if you plan to kill someone - do it in a car and hope the DA office still overburden and walk free by running out the clock to bring you to trial.
bsanchey t1_j28ntib wrote
Yes but police need to grind for the candy crush world championship. Also yucky homeless people need to get kept from being seen because the brunch crowd can’t handle it. So where is an 11 billion dollar police budget are you going to have people enforce traffic laws.
ArcherXIII t1_j2861yf wrote
People can’t drive in this bum ass city that’s why.
Rottimer t1_j258zz7 wrote
Don't worry, with the recent Supreme Court ruling I imagine shooting deaths will comfortably rise above Traffic Deaths once again.
LivefromPhoenix t1_j27jjt6 wrote
A whole lot of delusional gun owners thinking more guns on the street won't lead to more shooting deaths.
Rottimer t1_j28tqaz wrote
They don't care if it leads to more shooting deaths. They're more than willing to accept those sacrifices for their guns.
juggernaut1026 t1_j295r8u wrote
The gun laws in NY have gotten sticter since the Supreme Court ruling. Were you not aware of this?
[deleted] t1_j25e8l6 wrote
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Menacing_Quokka t1_j2560q5 wrote
Time to start randomly stopping and questioning drivers.
mikemikemike9711 t1_j25wts5 wrote
The years not over yet... alot can happen in a New York Minute
Deluxe78 t1_j27b212 wrote
Anyone suing the automakers? The car dealerships?
[deleted] t1_j27lk0l wrote
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Bralesslover t1_j28bjzz wrote
Well looks like Deblasio’s and Adam’s punishment of drivers gone really well. 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Commercial-Impress74 t1_j28q94i wrote
Cars deff drive dumb. But sometimes it be their fault also. Rip smh
[deleted] t1_j28zb8a wrote
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yuriydee t1_j293iof wrote
I mean even if you say traffic deaths equal gun shooting deaths, its still a pretty damning statistic Id say.
[deleted] t1_j29400f wrote
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InfernalTest t1_j29te55 wrote
uhh how is it a damning statistic
there are millions of car drivers in the city - using cars and trucks
there is hardly the same number of people with guns using them
so really out of millions only 250plus isnt very bad - hell even 250 in 100's of thousands isnt bad....
Any_Foundation_9034 t1_j254g66 wrote
​
Time to hold auto makers accountable and time to ban automobiles.
ThreeLittlePuigs t1_j255lft wrote
How about we just highly regulate them and mandate training / permitting and regular inspections
simeonbachos t1_j25ikr2 wrote
That’s what we do now, not working
casicua t1_j25ovjb wrote
Regulating them involves pulling them over and/or ticketing them. NYPD barely ever does that.
ThreeLittlePuigs t1_j25rfel wrote
I think it was pretty clear OP was trying to make a comment on guns that was stupid. Hence my reply. The cops absolutely do not enforce traffic laws though
[deleted] t1_j256080 wrote
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Peredvizhniki t1_j29z7a9 wrote
This but unironically
Any_Foundation_9034 t1_j2e1sqn wrote
downvotes for my sarcasm but ya’ll should be upvoting because it is true. You cannot hold a manufacturer liable or punish multiple individuals with idiotic control measures for the action (or inaction) of a person or a situation.
Justinontheinternet t1_j282ubc wrote
But ban the guns lmao. Ar 15s all rifles for that matter cause less than 400 deaths annually
No_Tax5256 t1_j26ko5j wrote
We need to eliminate Vision Zero. Get rid of the speeding cameras. Drivers have their eyes in the sky looking for cameras now.
mowotlarx t1_j26m5xs wrote
...is this comment satire?
Captaintripps t1_j2908cr wrote
Just frothing stupid.
D14DFF0B t1_j25gifg wrote
If you think guns should be banned in NYC and not cars, I'd love to hear why.
ThreeLittlePuigs t1_j25i2mk wrote
Because I can’t use my gun to commute to work and delivery’s can’t be completed by gun? This a serious question??
FreedmF1ghter77 t1_j25zpih wrote
You must've been an A student at Trump University
BxGeek79 t1_j25i4iw wrote
Guns are made to kill people. Cars aren't.
casicua t1_j25p1o4 wrote
Lol gun cult people are next level brainwashed.
haunted_star t1_j279i6d wrote
jfc I think you’re lost, you’re looking for Facebook
beagle_bathouse t1_j254ysn wrote
The Kala Santiago killing is so infuriating. That truck driver said she panicked when he crossed the double yellow to pass her and fell under her truck. There are pictures of the parked cars where you can see her bike gashed them open when she was crushed between them and the truck.
Dude was driving recklessly (not 100% sure it is even legal to drive a tractor trailer on that street) and the dude killed someone because of his negligence, and just walked away. Fuck that.