mowotlarx OP t1_j0zm8b2 wrote
Reply to comment by NetQuarterLatte in New York City Councilman Erik Blottcher's office, home vandalized with hate speech by mowotlarx
People criticizing the NYPD for doing a bad job want them to do a better job, actually. Like investigating and arresting people who commit hate crimes. This whole "well don't criticize cops if you want them to do what they're being paid to do" strawman is so tired.
user_joined_just_now t1_j11jb10 wrote
> Like investigating and arresting people who commit hate crimes.
Sure, investigate and arrest people who commit non-violent hate crimes, while simultaneously bemoaning the fact that we lock up too many people for non-violent crimes. On the other hand, for people on their 5th arrest for a violent crime, carceral justice is not the solution, and we need to instead address the root causes by increasing access to public pools and social services.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j0zope7 wrote
>People criticizing the NYPD for doing a bad job want them to do a better job, actually. Like investigating and arresting people who commit hate crimes. This whole "well don't criticize cops if you want them to do what they're being paid to do" strawman is so tired.
We have too many prominent people with excessive hypocrisy who will criticize the police and at the same time be against concrete measures to improve the police.
That, in my mind, puts a new perspective on strawmans.
SnottNormal t1_j0zsqai wrote
What concrete measures are thrown out beyond "give them more money?"
NetQuarterLatte t1_j0zyf35 wrote
>What concrete measures are thrown out beyond "give them more money?"
Take this bill for example, see if you can guess which NYC Democract voted against it: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022525
MillennialNightmare t1_j0zz881 wrote
> The bill also directs DOJ to make grants to states for costs associated with providing the training to law enforcement officers or mental health professionals.
Oh you mean the bill that gives them more money.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j1018cl wrote
>[...] providing the training to law enforcement officers or mental health professionals.
​
>Oh you mean the bill that gives them more money.
To address one of the exact things anti-police folks criticize.
MillennialNightmare t1_j10el3y wrote
The point is there shouldn’t need to be a dedicated DOJ grant for this, it should be something departments across the country include in their academies and on an ongoing basis.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j10jgwy wrote
Why? Is violence de-escalation different across cities?
A deranged person in NYC will escalate violence much differently than a person in Seattle?
MillennialNightmare t1_j10x7uz wrote
No idea what you’re even asking here. Police departments need to do this training, that’s not in dispute. The federal government shouldn’t dedicate resources to funding it.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j10yce1 wrote
So each department should duplicate the work of developing the training curriculum and standards for de-escalation?
But regardless of that, why are you against federal funding that can help improve things in NYC and other cities? This is an issue that impacts every city in the nation.
MillennialNightmare t1_j10zz3i wrote
Every training and every program doesn’t need additional funding to be carried out.
The program should absolutely be developed, that’s not in question, but federal funding shouldn’t be dedicated to funding the training across the country. There’s zero reason that can’t be incorporated into existing academy training.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j116uox wrote
It has to require extra funding.
Unless we can somehow make the training happen for free and in the officer's free time (without pay).
That has to come from somewhere.
Edit: so it seems that the argument boils down to a variant of "fuck the NYPD".
SnottNormal t1_j119tg0 wrote
Reallocate funds. The NYPD isn't hurting for money.
MillennialNightmare t1_j11cdk7 wrote
The NYPD has a multi billion dollar budget. They can figure it out.
SnottNormal t1_j100c5u wrote
This is federal, not NYC. And my rep is a Republican who voted against it. She's really the only rep I'm directly concerned with. And it does throw an extra $100m+ at the problem.
That said, de-escalation training is a great idea in theory. It shouldn't have to come down from the feds. This is a city problem, but everyone is so scared of the cop unions (probably rightfully so) that nothing's gonna change.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j10jmzq wrote
It’s a national problem, no?
Unless you’re trying to say it’s not.
Do you believe that lack of de-escalation training is a problem that only happens in a few US cities?
SnottNormal t1_j10kdz5 wrote
...we're talking specifically about the NYPD? They're a city problem, not a national one.
Yes, lack of de-escalation training is national problem. That's also not the conversation we were having.
NetQuarterLatte t1_j10lemq wrote
And federal funding that would have also helped NYC... is not a good thing?
The same de-escalation training material and standards they develop at the federal level can help NYC and many other cities.
I don't see why each city needs to replicate the same work.
IllTransportation141 t1_j0zmnmd wrote
Defund the police was just a collective fever dream?
mowotlarx OP t1_j0zn356 wrote
Did the NYPD ever get defunded??
Sounds like a fever dream the right wing glommed on to and pretended was actually a threat. Anyway, how about the NYPD budget that is larger this year than it's ever been, and will be even bigger next year!
NetQuarterLatte t1_j0zqb7y wrote
>Anyway, how about the NYPD budget that is larger this year than it's ever been, and will be even bigger next year!
How about our own D politicians, who criticize the police plenty, but are still voting against the Law Enforcement De-Escalation Training Act? (House vote last week)
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022525
mowotlarx OP t1_j0zvnmt wrote
So you agree the police in NYC and elsewhere have not been defunded, right?
poboy212 t1_j0zozyf wrote
NYPD should still handle actual crimes, like this. All you have is this shitty straw man argument.
George4Mayor86 t1_j0zr4zg wrote
Pretty much, yeah. It was a fringe slogan that translated into zero actual policy.
[deleted] t1_j0zr2p0 wrote
[deleted]
oy_says_ake t1_j140fzl wrote
Nypd’s budget is bloated, especially given their performance.
E.g. they buy new squad cars every 3 years whether they need them or not, and meanwhile to actually do their jobs we’d be better off with them walking or using bikes/scooters/etc in most cases, especially since they’ve been doing virtually no enforcement of traffic violations post-pandemic.
Yet for some reason they always escape budget cuts while we chop away at libraries and social services.
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