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SakanaToDoubutsu t1_j1s9eay wrote

Reply to comment by Armoogeddon in NYC's AI bias law is delayed until April 2023, but when it comes into effect, NYC will be the first jurisdiction mandating an AI bias order in the world, revolutionizing the use of AI tools in recruiting by Background-Net-4715

>I suspect these people hear “bias” in machine learning and presume it’s a pejorative. It’s not; models trained by humans (“supervised machine learning”) are “biased” with their experience intentionally. Training models isn’t some Klan rally to go after people, at least not in my experience.

This is exactly it. This reminds me of a project my thesis advisor did where they were looking at retention rates and trying to limit freshman dropouts. One of the best predictors of dropping out they found was that people who self-identifyed as black or mixed race, and as a result anyone who entered the university who identified as black or mixed-race was automatically placed in a sort of academic probation.

Under this program dropout rates went down pretty substantially, but once the student body found out about it they protested and the statistics department could no longer use demographics data for identifying students at risk of dropping out. However, once they couldn't use that data dropout rates went back up again, so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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myassholealt t1_j1spejk wrote

Anecdote here, but based on my life experience and thinking back on my experience in college, I was a working class first generation college student. Being in the college environment was so different from the world I knew through the 12th grade. My new classmates were so different. I remember overhearing a conversation between classmates where a guy was complaining about being too poor, but then talking about how he can't wait for spring break cause he just wants to go somewhere with a beach to lie down and tan the whole time. Meanwhile I was planning to pick up extra hours at my minimum wage part time job.

Or the dorm experience. I couldn't afford dorming. I commuted 90 minutes each way to class, and would go him, try to take a 40 minute nap before heading out to my 6-10 shift at my job. I had no time for clubs or events, and didn't have a lot of social interactions outside of classes and class work. Hell, I didn't even know my supervisor advisor till my senior year. As a first generation student I had no clue about that stuff. This and so many other experiences all tied together to make college very hard at times. And yes, I am a minority. But it's not my being a minority that triggered this. It was my socioeconomic status, my family history, and the access to experiences I had or didn't have before getting to college.

So when someone sees the correlation as black = high drop out rate. The immediate reaction may be to be offended or object, but while on the data side that correlation is the easiest identifier, it doesn't actually identify what may be the real issues. And let's face it, with the history of this country, lots of black people have gone through life with obstacles intentionally erected to make sure this is their reality and the reality of their children. For example, while white wwii veterans were coming back home to buy homes with their GI bill and pay for education to build a foundation that roots their family and future generations solidly in the middle class, black veterans where not allowed those same privileges in many areas, rooting them and their future generations in the working class.

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supermechace t1_j1sqmce wrote

I wouldn't say that's the correct conclusion. Techies and academics tend to be weak at understanding optics and cultural/racial issues. supposedly claiming "data is king". Academic probation is a negative term, automatic dumping people into that bucket is the most head slapping PR decision. 20 years ago there were equal opportunity programs at colleges which basically used income level and minority as a filter to quality applicants for additional college aid, work employment, and mentoring all without statistical modelling. The correct takeaway in your advisors case is to bring findings to a holistic cross discipline cross culture committee to examine the root cause such as minorities coming from underfunded school districts that poorly prepared people for college. Descions done in secret and especially without racial representative input continues blindness.

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IIAOPSW t1_j1sdlh6 wrote

I guess this is inherently unknowable, but I am itching to know if the dropout stats were meaningfully different for black people who choose not to self identify as black on the form. For that matter, what fraction of black people pick "prefer not to say" on these sorts of forms, and is that fraction higher or lower than any other racial demographic?

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