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amf0336 t1_j24t017 wrote

It’s likely going to be another Hudson yards surrounding Penn station…

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Wowzlul t1_j24v62h wrote

Makes much more sense to have that there than where Hudson Yards is.

Penn Station is the busiest train station in the western hemisphere. If you're gonna have big office towers in this brave new remote world, that's the best place to have them. Affluent bugman gets off his NJ Transit train and walks to his big important client-facing office. Super convenient. Places like Hudson Yards are just too "out of the way" at this point.

Maybe that's the thinking.

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Bangkok_Dangeresque t1_j25wrlz wrote

>Places like Hudson Yards are just too "out of the way" at this point.

It's a 6 minute ride on the 7 from Grand Central, and 10 minute ride on the 7 from Port Authority, and 10 minute walk from Penn Station. It's really not that bad for commuters.

I think this is more about what you see when you compare the environs (in terms of high-rise office and residential) of Penn Station to Grand Central. It's underdeveloped for such a central point in the city's transit network.

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Wowzlul t1_j260828 wrote

> It's really not that bad for commuters.

I'd have agreed with you in 2019, but have you heard how office workers talk these days? Seems like the vast majority are dead set against ever going to an office ever again unless it's an extremely convenient experience. Putting it directly next to Penn could help with that.

But I'm just speculating. The evidence may not bear that out.

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Bangkok_Dangeresque t1_j262mcc wrote

I know plenty of people who work for anchor tenants in some of the Hudson Yards developments specifically. A few of them bought houses in the suburbs right before or during covid, and now commute into the office full time or on hybrid 2/3 day per week schedules. This comports with stats on office capacity approaching 40-50% of pre-pandemic levels.

When push came to shove, they may have disliked going back, but they're still doing it. Especially in the midst of layoffs (e.g. tech workers).

There's some paradoxical patterns here when it comes to companies investing in physical office space despite the big shifts to remote work. When you require a few days per week office attendance, you can get away with paying for a fraction of the square footage. The drop in aggregate demand means that the price falls, which may induce some companies that would have otherwise avoided getting any office space in Manhattan to consider it. Specifically when they can suddenly afford class A modern spaces. Real estate companies have dubbed this a "flight to quality", and is one of the only bright spots in the sector right now.

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able2sv t1_j28n8ie wrote

Very interesting explanation, thanks!

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amf0336 t1_j24wn5s wrote

I’d rather have buildings that provide some sort of neighborhood feel and amenities rather than tall glass facades on the sidewalk.

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civilityman t1_j2564lx wrote

Nobody wants to live in a place where that amount of traffic, foot, car and bicycle, is right outside your front door.

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cdavidg4 t1_j25lmte wrote

You can have active ground floor, neighborhood scaled retail with a tower on top. Unfortunately doesn't seem to be something developers are interested in here. I'm sure a city block sized retail space that sits empty, waiting for a trader joes, is easier to manage than 20 small spaces that would actually be rented and used by people.

It's my biggest gripe with downtown Brooklyn. City Planning "created" a new neighborhood with the rezonings but forgot the neighborhood aspect. The ground plane is lifeless.

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[deleted] t1_j26vvvz wrote

[deleted]

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Wowzlul t1_j29o3jh wrote

Fulton st mall during the day is nice because it's just normal Bk people shopping at normal stores.

At night yeah it's eerily empty.

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mustardgrl69 t1_j26ivcl wrote

Downtown Brooklyn right behind Midtown in the blighted race IMO…

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Amphiscian t1_j25tim8 wrote

>provide some sort of neighborhood feel

That's what we have neighborhoods for?

This is meant to be a transit/commercial/stadium epicenter. Walk south for 5 minutes and you're in Chelsea

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RobertoSantaClara t1_j25fouu wrote

> Penn Station is the busiest train station in the western hemisphere.

Fucking hell, what a massive L for the New World. Train infrastructure in Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina need to get their shit together, 'cause Penn Station ain't exactly a shining beacon on a hill lmao

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Wowzlul t1_j25g4x2 wrote

Well yes I know that Penn is ugly and dysfunctional, but due the sheer amount of infrastructure the Pennsylvania Railroad built there and the density of the commercial districts surrounding it Penn is in fact an insanely busy and important station.

Kinda why I'd support a redevelopment of the streets around it. Should be taking advantage of the capacity on offer here, not cutting it or pretending it doesn't exist.

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karmapuhlease t1_j25haq1 wrote

New York is a far more important city than any city in any of those other countries, so it makes sense.

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