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HEIMDVLLR t1_j13s549 wrote

Reply to comment by summitrock in New York City Unveils Gate of the Exonerated in Central Park Honoring Wrongly Convicted People by lifandigoosogn

This country erected statues and created holidays for men who did a lot worse.

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j13zm6z wrote

And those statues were also wrong. Does that make you right?

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HEIMDVLLR t1_j140o84 wrote

Yet here you are defending this statement, about a group of boys who went to jail and spent a lot time behind bars. They paid for whatever crimes they may have committed that night and for crimes they didn’t commit.

What jail time has any of the individuals this country erected statues of serve? Also love how you leaped over the holiday part!

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j141uxp wrote

Those statues and holidays are also wrong. Does that make you right?

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HEIMDVLLR t1_j143s6r wrote

You speak as if those statues no longer exist and those holidays are no longer celebrated.

I’ll answer your question after you create a post about why we should get rid of those statues and why we shouldn’t be celebrating holidays that honor criminals.

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j144i3m wrote

I'll edit to "are".

I'm not even making a post about getting rid of this one, just expressing mild dissent. 😂 I generally save my energy for more pressing issues than statues, but feel free to point me towards anything you think should come down. The most obvious target to me in NYC is the Columbus statue at Columbus Circle.

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HEIMDVLLR t1_j145wlc wrote

> I generally save my energy for more pressing issues than statues

That is a lie. Look at you in the comments right now. I wasn’t even talking to you and you jumped in the comments. Why?

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j14iobm wrote

I guess you asked me to create a post, and that's more energy to me than a comment. These comments take very little energy.

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BiblioPhil t1_j13xzb5 wrote

Yeah, but those were white guys!! These are black teens and they might have stolen from people, so who cares if we wrongly accuse them of rape??

...is the thought process, I assume

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j13zidm wrote

Or maybe they're both bad and you shouldn't treat politics as a team sport? Maybe grow up a little?

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BiblioPhil t1_j140255 wrote

Maybe acknowledge that being wrongly accused of rape is unjust regardless of whether you've stolen from someone. Team sports have nothing to do with it (unless you're suggesting that only one "team" says that).

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j141p56 wrote

It is absolutely unjust and should be recognized as such. This thread was, from the beginning, talking about recognizing that while not memorializing people that nonetheless also committed other crimes.

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BiblioPhil t1_j1425zr wrote

I actually don't think whether or not they committed "other crimes" was the point of the post. The point was that they were wrongly accused due to racism.

As another commenter pointed out, it's never been a requirement that someone be perfect for a statue to be made of them. Why start imposing that requirement now?

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WickhamAkimbo t1_j143yon wrote

That's a good counter-argument. I think for a lot of people the spree mugging is a big enough issue that they are going to have an issue memorializing them.

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newestindustry t1_j1479ie wrote

Spree mugging or not, those people would have an issue with this particular memorial no matter what, for reasons that are extremely obvious to everyone.

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BiblioPhil t1_j14fq1n wrote

I wonder what the overlap is between people who oppose this statue on those grounds and people who defend Columbus monuments or Trump votes. I'm guessing...very large.

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drpvn t1_j14g2je wrote

This is the flowchart I use to determine my position on every issue.

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BiblioPhil t1_j14n731 wrote

The point is that supporting both is contradictory, yet many people do it. Because their issue with commemorating the exonerated people isn't that they were flawed individuals. It's something else.

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drpvn t1_j14p7zu wrote

I’m not a mind reader. My issue with honoring these five guys in particular—and there’s a gigantic difference between, on the one hand, apologizing to them on behalf of the city and state, paying them compensation, and condemning the miscarriage of justice that happened, and, on the other hand, honoring them—is that all the information I have strongly suggests that these guys were absolute pieces of shit, at least as teenagers.

What Trump voters think about this just doesn’t enter into my mind at all. Not every issue needs to be a fight among two warring factions for control over an overarching narrative. But that’s just me.

If Mark Wahlberg were unjustly convicted of rape and then exonerated, I would still think he was a piece of shit.

Taking a step back, though, this debate shouldn’t really be about these guys in particular. The gate doesn’t honor them specifically. It’s about people who have been exonerated. But it’s hard to separate them from the larger issue given that they always show up as the poster boys.

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