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awaythrowbosk t1_j6o96ns wrote

Reply to comment by Spittinglama in Mount Sinai investigating newborn’s death during NYC nurses' strike by CasinoMagic

Good argument but in a more extreme example, will it still be the case? What if all American citizens cease to pay taxes because of unfair living conditions and quality of life. And I’m so doing all city-paid workers don’t get paid and they all stop doing their jobs (teachers stop showing up to school and kids are left without education, sanitation stops taking trash and we have increase rodents and pests prescience and health risks, cops stop doing whatever cops do and criminals take advantage of the situation to wreak havoc, list goes on and on.

Considering you are now a victim since your kids don’t get education, there’s trash outside your house for weeks, and you have to board up your windows from opportunistic criminals, Will you still blame the government for pushing people to go this far, or will you blame everyone who played a part?

i feel like it’s always easy to blame the big leader if we’re not the victims (ie not it wasn’t our kid who died because of this whole strike debacle)

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thetravelingpeach t1_j6o9zwn wrote

That’s a straw man argument if I’ve ever heard one. You’re placing all the blame externally and none internally, even in your own examples. It’s always the workers fault, and the consumer is innocent in your examples.

If my kids can’t go to school, then my RESPONSIBILITY is to teach them myself. If sanitation isn’t taking out the trash, my RESPONSIBILITY is to clean and figure out a solution so my kids aren’t living in filth.

Similarly, in this very real situation, nurses took responsibility for their own lives. They were put in unsafe working conditions, without sufficient compensation, so they walked out. It is the hospital administration’s responsibility to either get nurses back into the building or to send critical patients to a hospital where they can receive necessary care

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awaythrowbosk t1_j6ob2fc wrote

Very fair points. Now if you remove spectator bias and assume the position of the father/mother of the baby who died, can you honestly say you hold zero remorse against the nurses who would’ve been stationed to care for you and your kid had there not been a strike/unfair working conditions?

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Spittinglama t1_j6odryp wrote

I can wholeheartedly say that I would not hold striking nurses accountable if my own child died because they were literally striking to create SAFER conditions for children. They were striking BECAUSE it was dangerous to put few staff in charge of many patients. I am on the side of nurses precisely because I know they care about their patients and the hospital does not.

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awaythrowbosk t1_j6olpya wrote

If it came down to it, would you volunteer to have your child die a martyr and as a symbol for fair wages/better working conditions for nurses? If it was your child’s life on the line would you also be accepting of the unintended consequence all for the betterment of future kids/lives of those who will care for future patients?

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Spittinglama t1_j6p01f0 wrote

Nobody is volunteering their child for martyrdom. I am capable of understanding that certain things happen for the overall betterment of people. One group is fighting to make it better and one is fighting against it. Striking is a necessary action to fight for better conditions for workers and better outcomes for patients. I stand with the people who want it to be better.

You are a terminally philosophy-brained freak that proposes false choices and inaccurate dichotomies.

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thetravelingpeach t1_j6oca08 wrote

You’re using emotion to justify who’s right.That’s not how the world or our legal system works. I have two fat cats who feel very strongly resentful about the fact that they’ve been restricted from treats on the vet’s advice- by your logic that makes me a monster.

Of course a family is going to be distressed that their baby died. Of course they’re going to lash out in anger emotionally. That doesn’t make it right.

I’m going to give you a personal example. I grew up in a very cold, very snowy place. Local teenagers liked to race each other on snowmobiles in the ditches alongside the road. 5 kids on 2 snowmobiles were racing each other when they decided to cross in front of a semi. Icy road+a very heavy truck meant that the driver could not stop in time. All 5 kids died. The families blamed the driver, despite the fact that literally nothing he could have done could have changed the circumstances. The blame and hate he received plus his own guilt resulted in him taking his own life a few years later. Those families were not right in what they did, but they couldn’t accept their own responsibility in their children’s death(namely letting 5 kids under 16 use snowmobiles unsupervised alongside a highway to race)

I also suspect that you don’t actually know what spectator bias is

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awaythrowbosk t1_j6odfzp wrote

But we see this happen all the time with cyclist in NYC - cyclists turn a corner when they don’t have the light or right of way, get hit with a semi, they die and we blame the city for not giving safe and protected bike lanes when the cyclist could have saved their own life had they waited their turn

On the one hand the cyclist would’ve indeed been safe if he had his own barricaded lane. On the other hand we share the road with bikes trucks cars you name it.

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Spittinglama t1_j6odekp wrote

Are you saying what would happen if a majority of Americans participated in a general strike? If they did then maybe the labor force would gain some power to improve our lives. You know, as long as the cops don't start beating the shit out of people who are striking, which is what they historically have done.

I do not give a fuck about your weird hypotheticals. I care about the real world.

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