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acheampong14 t1_j5x03rt wrote

Like there has to be an end game / real plan for this. NYC can’t accommodate, feed, and support the entire refugee population of South America, Mexico and Senegal.

We can’t even adequately house the existing population sans migrants. Housing takes years to construct. It’s like some of these activists are just begging for suffering and chaos just to score political points. It’s petty and disgusting.


Interesting_Banana25 t1_j5xd8fy wrote

Isn’t this basically the argument against sanctuary cities? Like, immigration is a good thing and should absolutely be allowed, but it needs to be planned out and it shouldn’t be a free for all. People who are in the country illegally should be deported.


Vigolo216 t1_j5z0nxn wrote

Some people still hate Obama for deporting illegal immigrants. I guess the president should just ignore the law or something. Immigration is our greatest strength, but we also have an obligation to our own citizens and should prioritize them. There is a volume capacity for everything, including immigration, especially when it's directly to just one city.


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zkeoh wrote

Lol there would be no workers picking your vegetables, processing your meat and working in restaurant kitchens, among other things. The fact that people still don’t know the economy would collapse if we “deported all illegals” is mind boggling.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5ykqcn wrote

Never understood how people could live in New York City, with its history of immigration, and still land on “deport the illegals!”

The entire country, especially food service, would crumble if we deported illegal immigrants. Grant easy pathways to citizenship, it’s not that hard. They are here already, working jobs and living like everyone else it’s just not out in the open


CarlCarbonite t1_j5yt9ja wrote

Because legal immigrants, like myself, dislike illegal immigrants. My family paid a very hefty price to live in NYC. Blood, sweat and tears literally. To come here illegally is to spit on people who worked for their citizenship, their visas and their green cards. It should require effort and commitment to live and work in NYC. Immigration is fine but illegal immigration is not. I agree the process should be easier and honestly cheaper (we paid about 20k a person over the course of 20 years to get US citizenship. From work visa, to sponsorship for a green card to eventual naturalization. I came here when I was 5 and finally became a US citizen at 25.)


sequencedStimuli t1_j5yv2mi wrote

The US immigration system turning legal vs illegal immigrants against each other is by design. There's no reason the system has to be so broken that millions feel like coming illegally, living on the margins, and risking deportation is a more feasible option than attempting one of the purposefully cumbersome, overly bureaucratic routes.

Anti-immigrant Americans and their elected officials understand that they can probably never close off the US to immigration entirely, due to our nation's history. But they're more than happy to never compromise in order to fix the system, and they definitely love the animosity the systemic dysfunction sparks between different immigrant groups, their families, and their communities. It quite literally helps keep xenophobic politicians in office, or gives them a cultural wedge issue to use in campaigning even if their jurisdiction is nowhere near the border.

Edit: phrasing


deathhand t1_j64vwrp wrote

How do you answer the resources question? There simply isn't enough to go around for what we have, how do we handle more?


talldrseuss t1_j5yynoe wrote

You don't speak for all legal immigrants, bud. My family and I are legal immigrants (now citizens) that came back in the 80s. I remember the complete chaos and poverty from the country we left. Fortunately my father had a high demand Job the US was looking for at the time so we were able to get sponsorship, and jsut like you, it took years to come into fruition.

But i'm human enough to understand if my family is dealing with a shit environment, food insecurity, gangs running around, corrupt government that has no problem if you disappear, I would do anything to get my loved ones out of there. So no, not all legal immigrants look at undocumented individuals with disdain.


AcrossAmerica t1_j63jtet wrote

You can also be against illegal immigration but not see them with distain.

How many people are now crossing the border every year? 2+ million? How is that sustainable for a country?


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5z10fl wrote

If you have seen, first hand, how messed up and twisted our legal immigration system is, why would you push others into the same cycle? 20k per person is ridiculous, what if I can’t afford that? Just work until I can? It takes years to go through this process and frankly I have no idea how you’d be supportive of a system you clearly see flaws in.

Illegal immigrants do not come here take opportunities away from you. They don’t take jobs away from Americans. They come and provide a NECESSARY resource to keep this city functioning. That is more than enough reason for me, to support them in any way possible.

You are reaching the top, and then pulling the ladder up on those who can’t afford to wait years and spend 20k per person. Their actions do not invalidate your struggle. I am also a child of an immigrant to the US, and see no reason to use this barbaric and arbitrary system as some sort of bar for who should and shouldn’t be allowed to stay


Sergster1 t1_j5z2ij4 wrote

> If you have seen, first hand, how messed up and twisted our legal immigration system is, why would you push others into the same cycle?

Please look at other nations' legal immigration systems before you scorn ours. By comparison, America has one of the best. The reason it fails is due to the sheer volume of people we let in.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zbx4c wrote

Ok I looked it up. Am I now allowed to scorn the “pau to play” system we have in the US? Being relatively better than others doesn’t change anything if you were still asking people to spend a decade and thousands of dollars before being allowed to come to the US


Sergster1 t1_j5zcaxo wrote

America lets in the MOST immigrants out of any other nation in the world additionally we dont automatically bar people from immigrating due to not having higher education.

Also the US is not any less pay-to-play than any other foreign nation. Legal immigration is fucking expensive wherever you go. The difference is we dont require that people be skilled migrants.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zdlzg wrote

> Being relatively better than others doesn’t change anything if you were still asking people to spend a decade and thousands of dollars before being allowed to come to the US

Did you skip over this part lol? Better or worse than others doesn’t matter if the bar is still too high. Personally I don’t think it’s right that to come to the US you have to spend that much money.

Idk what else to say. Telling me to just be happy with it cuz others places are worse doesn’t change my view in the slightest


Sergster1 t1_j5zed2g wrote

Being asked to spend a decade to immigrate is infinitely better than just being outright barred because your socioeconomic situation in your home country bans you from even applying. Remember higher education, which is the bar for most other 1st world nations' immigration policy, is a product of your personal wealth and social factors.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zfxeq wrote

Lol maybe dream bigger? You seem perfectly content with our system now just because other places are worse. You make no arguments about the validity of our immigration practices, you just compare them to other countries to make it seem like we’re doing a great job.

Use your immigration a little to think of how it could ALL be better. Cheers lol


Sergster1 t1_j5zgg0c wrote

Of course we could do better however I'm not very keen at bashing our immigration policies while turning a blind eye to other nations.

Additionally, I do not believe it is America's directive to pull up other nations members via immigration. Not only does it contribute to the brain drain of foreign nations but it also strains the situation here at home for low-skilled labor.


bushwickauslaender t1_j61u0fq wrote

>America lets in the MOST immigrants out of any other nation in the world

This hasn't been true for a while. Last year, for instance, the US received slightly over a million immigrants (1.01M) while Germany received 1.2M.

You may argue that Germany had the Russian Invasion of Ukraine as a big catalyst, but I counter that Germany is a quarter of the size of the US so in theory should be receiving a quarter of the number of immigrants as the US, not more.

Germany is also a country where you can easily turn a work visa into permanent residence, and can eventually become a citizen. Most foreigners working in the US cannot do that.

Myself included, as much as I'd like to have the peace of mind of a Green Card rather than depend on my employer being kind enough to keep me employed so I can keep my visa.


Sergster1 t1_j631ioz wrote

Immigration policy's main goal is to stave off issues from your nation having a declining birthrate, therefore, straining the economy due to the shrinking of its working-age population and increasing of the tax burden of the remaining working-age population to pay for the social services of those outside of it.

Size of a nation has very little to do with why a country allows for more immigration, and this chart explains very well why Germany has chosen to change their policy. .

Immigration is not done as a courtesy to those in need that is what asylum is for. Immigration serves exclusively to prop up the nation receiving immigrants. Theres no such thing as

> the US so in theory should be receiving a quarter of the number of immigrants as the US, not more.

The main metric for if a country should be receiving more immigrants or not is can the current population sustain the economy once people age out.


bushwickauslaender t1_j61s7ln wrote

>Please look at other nations' legal immigration systems before you scorn ours

Having lived in 6 different countries and dealt with the legal immigration systems to work in 5 of them, I can confidently say that the US is absolutely dog shit at handling immigration. Sure it's probably better than, like, Venezuela, but most OECD countries are lightyears ahead of them.


Sergster1 t1_j6328zd wrote

Immigration Services and Work Authorization services are mutually exclusive.


bushwickauslaender t1_j63og1k wrote

I became a citizen in one of them, a permanent resident in another, and had the option of applying for permanent residence if I so desired in two others, meanwhile if I so much as suggest a desire to become a permanent resident of the US I jeopardize my work visa. But sure, go off.


Sergster1 t1_j642gin wrote

I don’t know dude. I think you’re probably the worst person to be advocating for immigration reform considering you’re a habitual migrant based on what you said.

Im actually completely okay in your case if applying for permanent residency in the US jeopardizes your work visa since you are likely to be relatively well off to go through the process multiple times.


Grass8989 t1_j5z4044 wrote

Most other countries require proof of income and a job so they know you won’t become a burden on their social services. We do not.


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zl9s8 wrote

I love all the immigration experts on this thread that have no idea Wtf they are talking about lol.


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zl79d wrote

It depends on what visa type you are talking about. This is a blanket statement that is absolutely not always accurate. To qualify for a marriage based green card for instance there are income requirements (ie you need an eligible “sponsor.”). Pretty sure the same is true for student visas.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zc4za wrote

Great. How does that change a single thing I said? We still require years of dedication and thousands of dollars to legally immigrate to the US


Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_j5za1m9 wrote

they said the 20k was over the course of 20 years, so it's not like they're demanding it all at once. this is also not the cost of immigrating but the cost of getting citizenship which are not at all the same.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zccoa wrote

The cost is still ridiculously high for most people, not sure why it makes a difference. There’s tons of research out there about how much it costs the average person in application fees, time, effort, and postage


Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_j5zgv0u wrote

I just don't think "what if I don't have 20k" makes a lot of sense as a question if the 20k is over 20 years, especially given that as an immigrant someones financial situation would likely be changing dramatically as they progress along the path from arriving to citizenship. that person also does agree with you that it should be cheaper so it's a little odd that you're stuck on it so much. what you guys actually disagree on is whether it's ethical to break the rules if you think the cost is too high


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zkrr0 wrote

I am married to a “legal” immigrant and I can promise you he doesn’t dislike illegal immigrants. Exaggerate much? I am certain there are many legal immigrants who don’t want you speaking for them. FYI many immigrants who are at one time here illegally later get green cards. I know you can still get a green card based on marriage even if you are a visa overstay, as one example. So it’s not nearly as clear cut as all legal immigrants were always here legally.


birthdaycakefig t1_j64ouhd wrote

You’re kidding yourself if you think an illegal immigrant has the same opportunity and choices you did. Let alone the risk and issues they face.

If you really thought it’s the same at the end of the day, you would have done it that way too. But you know the quality of life an illegal immigrant has is different than yours and that’s why you went your route.

You were a citizen after 20 years and I bet you could travel much sooner. Some people come here, never see their family again and potentially can never work a legal job or have proper rights their whole life.

Not trying to say you should feel sorry for them, just stop thinking that they somehow are in your same position.

No one is spitting on anyone, you simply made different choices and now live with a different reality.


AnneArchy123 t1_j60q3qe wrote

The ones in Midtown are living in an area where the average 1BR is $4K/month for free and getting fed while so many legal, taxpaying NY'ers are struggling to make ends meet.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j60wk7g wrote

How about…wait for it…both sets of human beings struggle less and have their basic needs met by the state. Why is it always a choice between one or the other? Neither should struggle and we can work towards that goal at the same rime


juniperaza t1_j5y4fdm wrote

I disagree. Some immigrants, like my mom was here for almost 30 years, having established a life here including family. She came in on a diplomatic visa and fell in love with my dad and overstayed her visa. So why push for families to be separated? Why force a kid to go into the foster care system when there was no need? Didn’t we have all thing with kids and parents being separated and forced to live in detainment camps? I don’t think we should be supporting as many migrants that are coming in either but ‘’all people who are in country illegally should be deported’’ is not it. And I’m sure a lot of the people around you would be impacted. I think the solution would be to give people a chance to become naturalized the same way Regan did in 1982 (my friend’s dad became a citizen that way). There’s legit people who have spent decades here. And you think we should just uproot their lives? Horrendous.

Edit: Looked at your profile and it seems you’re pretty xenophobic and firmly against immigration. So no point in trying to reason with the ignorant 🤷🏻‍♀️


OilGlittering7034 t1_j5y7bru wrote

Because laws still have to be followed regardless of if someone falls in love or not.

While your story is touching, we can't listen to every single illegal immigrants story and decide if it's worthy or not. It's not realistic.

Your mom may be a wonderful woman but she should have followed the rules.

USA is the only country in the planet you can just stroll into and and never leave and have everyone be like 🤷


juniperaza t1_j5y7ifv wrote

Yeah you can take your laws and stick it up where the sun doesn’t shine. The whole rhetoric of this country was built on immigrants still shines true today. And the fact that it’s incredibly hard to become a citizen in the US is still an issue. It says a lot when fucking Reagan has more morals and more sense than the people on this subreddit who think it’s okay to spew their xenophobia on this page.

Edit: and side note, my story wasn’t mean to be touching. My mom established LEGAL permanent residence a while ago. I’m pointing out the fact that many children would be torn from their parents and that will never be ok.


OilGlittering7034 t1_j5y7tcq wrote

The country was "built on immigrants" so we're not allowed to inforce immigrantion law for the rest of time?

You're delusional.


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j5yfuwo wrote

Nah what’s crazy is his family touched down 30 years and he wants his undocumented mom to be valid because immigrants built this country? Native Americans has a pretty big hand in that but how much contribution do you want credit for if your family has been here 30 years?


OilGlittering7034 t1_j5yjlc4 wrote

I'm a construction worker. I currently build this country. No clue, by his logic, why my immigrant wife and I are wasting our time and money getting her citizenship legally 🤷


juniperaza t1_j5zyaar wrote


And my mom is now a permanent resident thank you very much. And if you’re going to make the argument that American Indians have been here first, why do you feel that you have a say in who can become a citizen/permanent resident here then? I’m confused.


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j6058f3 wrote

No, you’re emotionally connected, not confused. The United States of America is not the same as the nations the existed here before. Did those nations have infrastructure, agriculture, education and governmental services? Yeah absolutely. Then. Colonizers gonna colonize though so now those nations aren’t the ruling governments anymore. The United States has a say btw, not me.


juniperaza t1_j60mbxy wrote

If you’re a Trump supporter, please just start with that. Your views are literally in align with Trump. That’s says a lot. It’s funny how the internet brings out the ugly in people.

But let me try and dissect what you’re saying because honestly those ‘’illegal immigrants’’ can string a coherent sentence with better grammar than you can lol.

And it doesn’t matter if the US was colonized, the American Indians were here first so shouldn’t they have a say in who can become a citizen? If you’re going to ask me how much could my mother really have contributed if she was only here for 30 years, then how much could the colonists have really contributed if they weren’t here as long as the American Indians if that makes sense. And the whole point of me mentioning the fact that the US was built on the labor of immigrants is to point out that the US was always meant to be accepting of those who wanted freedom from religious persecution, freedom of speech etc. Undocumented immigrants should be given the chance to become a naturalized citizen. Canada hasn’t faced any negative outcomes with their lenient immigration policy so confused on what the bitching is about.


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j60nk1j wrote

You’re arguing your feelings. I don’t care. Super bad call on the Trump support btw… no point in engaging further, you just need to other me into some group you disagree with. I’m good.


whenykyk98 t1_j5y8jy3 wrote

When you say immigrants built this country, what are you saying exactly? It’s so vague.

My ancestors were here over a 100 years before this country existed. Literally created it from nothing and fought for it. Trying to understand what exactly you’re saying tho because it seems like you’re justifying illegal immigration.


juniperaza t1_j5yaxhv wrote

Over a 100 years ago before this country existed? Not to be a smart ass but the US was established well over 200 years so I’m a bit confused on your timeline here. And I am justifying ‘’illegal immigration’’. Every other country has laws that make it easier to become a naturalized citizen. The US has some of the strictest immigration control. Trump made it much stricter for a definite time period. And honestly, a lot of the rhetoric that people have been spewing on this subreddit is on par with the views of Republicans. If you all feel that programs like DACA or DAPA shouldn’t exist and your views align with Republicans/Xenophobics, why not just say that?


TheObliviousPickle t1_j5yd1tc wrote

Dude you’ve got to realize that it’s just not possible. You can have open borders or a social safety net. You can’t have both. It’s mathematically impossible


juniperaza t1_j5yepjo wrote

You can have programs set up that make it easier for children who grew up in the US or parents of US citizens to become naturalized citizens. In other words, make it easier for those who have established a life here in the US to become a citizen. It’s not hard. If Reagan can do it in the early 80s, why can’t we as well in 2023? I’m vocalizing strictly for DAPA and DACA (programs that Obama was pushing during his presidency). I said initially I don’t think that NYC should be the recipient of ALL migrants. But during my mom’s own process of getting naturalized, Trump made it much harder whereas Obama/Biden made it relatively easier. There’s no reason we should have strict immigration laws in place for those who are otherwise law abiding and contribute to society. It’s just funny how some of the newer members of this subreddit think those who have been in the country longer than they’ve been alive do not have a right to be here. What ever happened to ‘’Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free’’??


TheObliviousPickle t1_j5yfl0v wrote

Sure we can have open borders like we did in the 1700s when we were shitting in holes. But then we must abolish Medicaid, food stamps, section 8 and other social safety nets. If there is an open border and a guarantee to be taken care of financially, what’s stopping 3 billion people from coming here and sucking up the entire budget until it all falls apart?

You appear politically biased. I invite you to think about this without a political lense. Try not to be married to the party you “identify” with.


Grass8989 t1_j5z50qm wrote

This. People love to compare the way this country handled immigration 100+ years ago to now. We were very much a developing nation then that provided 0 “social safety net”. The immigrants of then weren’t provided with free medical care, housing, food, etc.


juniperaza t1_j60slvm wrote

Lol read my response to the other person. If we allowed undocumented immigrants to become citizens they would have to PAY taxes. We wouldn’t lose those safety nets if anything it would bankroll the dying social security program. Undocumented immigrants today cannot take advantage of any federal/state benefits so what is your point?


Grass8989 t1_j6149j8 wrote

They can get emergency Medicaid. And we are currently housing them in hotels and providing them with free meals at NYC taxpayers expense. The majority are low skilled workers who would be making minimum wage as citizens and would still probably be receiving “social safety net” benefits.


juniperaza t1_j6159zf wrote

LOL. God you’re fucking stupid. But then again, Jordan Klepper has already proven that when it comes to how daft Trump supporters can be.

Firstly, emergency Medicaid is pretty much available to anyone. And it’s only for emergencies aka if someone is dying or suffering from a health condition that needs to be treated in the ER. The ER is not primary care nor does it provide anything. I know this because my mom went untreated for kidney disease for years before she became a permanent resident. And are we really going to deny someone medical care? I’m confused. And why are you mentioning migrants? Are you fucking stupid? The whole thread of comments started with a general comment about all immigrants. 36K migrants does not represent the actual 2 million+ immigrants that actually live in NYC lol. And I promise you they don’t all live in hotels and receive free meals. But you can continue to think that because the only thing you’ve proven is how incredibly xenophobic and racist you are. Congrats babe.

And wanted to add one last thing, you need a social security number to qualify for social welfare programs. Undocumented immigrants do not have a social security because well they’re here ‘’illegally’’. They’re unable to qualify for benefits in short. But you’re a moron who googled and ran with the only thing you saw which was ‘’emergency Medicaid’’. Which will only cover visits at the ER and no ER is permitted to deny anyone regardless of whether they’re a citizen or not lol. I guess our emergency rooms have better morals than the supposed ‘’NYers’’ that decided to comment on this post.


Grass8989 t1_j6176a0 wrote

Actually emergency Medicaid covers an unlimited amount of ER visits and due to EMTALA, no one can be turned away for any reason. No I’m not going to deny someone medical care, but this is clearly not sustainable long term. Thanks for the crass language, and assuming everyone who doesn’t think we should have completely open borders and take in the worlds poor is a Trump supporter tho, real critical thinking skills.

You do realize all of the major hospital systems in this city have a charity care system which allows people with little to no income to see primary care doctors and specialists for essentially free as well right?


juniperaza t1_j617tep wrote

It literally lasts 12 months and it’s for solely ER visits. And why would we ever try to turn anyone away from the ER? Do you realize the ER ONLY treats medical emergencies right? You realize that if you came into the ER for a non-emergency, you would be discharged and referred to an outpatient provider right? It also states that in the FAQs for the program. So I’m really unsure what your point here is. Why should we turn anyone away from the ER?

And I’ve never once argued for open borders. I’ve been arguing for lenient immigration policies that don’t separate families or deport children? So again, genuinely confused at one your point here is but I’m guessing this is the Trump views talking? Or maybe the lack of reading comprehension skills? I mean you’ve been doing quick google searches at everything you’ve been throwing my way. So it doesn’t surprise me that you haven’t actually taken out the time to read what you’re mentioning lol.


Grass8989 t1_j618sjr wrote

No one should be turned away from the ER, I never said that. However, someone who works a job and makes 50k a year and has to pay a $500 copay if they’re having a medical emergency, and someone who’s not a citizen get a free visit?


juniperaza t1_j61a8in wrote

Lol. Here is the bullshit again. You realize in the FAQ for emergency Medicaid, it specifically says that you only qualify for the program based on income requirements. And that income requirement for literally one person would mean they’re making less than $18K annually. Denying emergency medical care to an undocumented individual making less than $18K because the asshole making $50K has to pay a $500 copay wants to throw a fit is absurd. And literally emergency medical care is to save a life — it does not replace primary care or any of the other health specialties someone will PROBABLY need in their lifetime.

And you keep saying that no one should be turned away from the ER but you’re taking issue with a program that ensures that no one is afraid to visit the ER when their life depends on it. Like I’m not sure what you’re not comprehending here but I feel like the connection is pretty clear? Why are you taking issue with a program that has the only objective of making sure that anyone gets medical care when they need it?

It’s crazy because I could’ve swore Orange is the New Black had a whole season about how cruel immigration policies truly are in the US but clearly had no impact on American society. What a waste.


juniperaza t1_j61a4h2 wrote

Lol. Here is the bullshit again. You realize in the FAQ for emergency Medicaid, it specifically says that you only qualify for the program based on income requirements. And that income requirement for literally one person would mean they’re making less than $18K annually. Denying emergency medical care to an undocumented individual making less than $18K because the asshole making $50K has to pay a $500 copay wants to throw a fit is absurd. And literally emergency medical care is to save a life — it does not replace primary care or any of the other health specialties someone will PROBABLY need in their lifetime.

And you keep saying that no one should be turned away from the ER but you’re taking issue with a program that ensures that no one is afraid to visit the ER when their life depends on it. Like I’m not sure what you’re not comprehending here but I feel like the connection is pretty clear? Why are you taking issue with a program that has the only objective of making sure that anyone gets medical care when they need it?

It’s crazy because I could’ve swore Orange is the New Black had a whole season about how cruel immigration policies truly are in the US but clearly had no impact on American society. What a waste. I guess im the only one who cried 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edit: and last thing because I’m over arguing with stupid — I didn’t see your edit on your last comment but the whole NYC hospitals have charity care programs. Those are for residents aka citizens/permanent residents. And the major health systems in NYC are include NYP, Mount Sinai, and many more private healthcare chains who in fact do not see individuals without proof of payment aka insurance or self pay. With that being said, those private healthcare chains will only see undocumented individuals in their ER since it’s mandated by law thankfully.


Titty_Salad t1_j63woec wrote

Everyone who disagrees with me is a Trump supporter! You sound deranged.


juniperaza t1_j66erta wrote

Because those views directly align with Trump views on immigration? If you’re this vehemently against immigrants, you might as well be a Trump supporter 🤷🏻‍♀️ cry me a river


Titty_Salad t1_j68p4yp wrote

No need to cry, some people just have a more nuanced take than you and your mommy. Womp womp.


juniperaza t1_j60s8cf wrote

We didn’t just have ‘’open borders’’ in the 1700s. In fact, we didn’t have open borders at all in the 1700s if you take into account that only a certain group were allowed in. And you’re making the argument under the assumption that those individuals wouldn’t pay taxes. Wouldn’t it be better to have those undocumented paying taxes versus not paying them? Like you do understand that being a law abiding resident/citizen would mean they would be paying taxes and contributing to society correct? And there is no guarantee to be taken care of financially like I’m sorry but when did I ever say that we should guarantee that those we allow to become naturalized would have financial support? Stop making shit up lol. And those socialist reforms we have in place were put in by left wing leaning politicians who supported lenient immigration policies right? It’s funny how Republicans love to shout their anti-immigration views in defense that it would take away from socialist policies that were put in place by politicians who were very much in support of immigrants lol. The fucking audacity. To put it in simple words, your argument is wrong because if you allowed undocumented immigrants to become citizens they would be paying taxes and therefore increasing the budgets that go towards those ‘’safety nets’’ you’ve been crying about. And no the country is not crowded. The US is huge. In my initial comment, I said NYC may not be the best place for migrants but there are other areas of the US that would benefit. Have a great night!


TheObliviousPickle t1_j61260x wrote

Yikes I recommend seeing somebody for your mental health. I wish you luck- the world can be a better place for you.


juniperaza t1_j614il1 wrote

What about my comment speaks about my mental health? I called you out for being a dumb ass and suddenly I need to seek help for my mental health? LOL. I guess my points were valid then! Thank you!!


Jaaawsh t1_j5ydtcw wrote

The U.S. actually has a very lenient immigration system, at least compared to other high income nations. Easier to become a citizen here than most other places as well. We are an outlier in the way that we put more emphasis on family members being able to immigrate here, rather than employment/education/skills-based migration.

Pretty sure we’re one of (if not the only) high income countries that still has birthright citizenship. Most everywhere else one or both of your parents needs to be a citizen when a child is born, for that child to be given automatic citizenship.


bushysmalls t1_j5yadti wrote

Change the law because of this guy's feelings, everybody!


juniperaza t1_j5yant4 wrote

Are you saying the same about the anti-abortion laws? Or the countless laws that exist but aren’t morally correct? I’m confused here.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5yj862 wrote

> I don’t think we should be supporting as many migrants that are coming in either but ‘’all people who are in country illegally should be deported’’ is not it.

So you don't think we should be supporting as many migrants that come here, so long as your illegal immigrant mother is spared?


juniperaza t1_j5zofcz wrote

I think we should support those who have established family here or have come to the US as kids — yes. This is literally the aim of the programs Obama set into motion called DACA or DAPA. Do you have selective reading? Confused.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j608wpk wrote

I just find it curious that your support for illegal immigrants conveniently only includes policies that would benefit your family.


juniperaza t1_j60kuxo wrote

Because the policies I support are the ones that resolve inhumane problems? Do I need to link an article depicting all the families that have been separated and caged like animals? Like I’m sorry but yes I’m selfish for supporting a policy that would have prevented my mother not getting caged up like an animal had she not been naturalized. And why exactly do you think that staying in a country for 30 years separated from your family and pretty much everyone you know except your daughter is such a trophy? My mom didn’t want to stay in the US — she stayed because she had me to support. And in theory, let’s say my mom was deported while she was undocumented — do you really think it would be humane to separate a family and force the child to go into a very much broken foster care system? Like what am I missing here? My story is one among COUNTLESS stories. There are kids who are undocumented who participate in the DACA program and join the army and contribute society. Why would we ever want to deport them? They’re fucking kids. DACA and DAPA were great immigration reform policies and I sincerely hope Biden is able to continue them.

I’m convinced this subreddit has suddenly been overrun by nasty, brain dead Republicans. All of the policies that I’ve seen people in support of are in align with Trump’s views — that’s fucking weird.

And it doesn’t surprise me that you’re anti-mask. I’m guessing your anti vax as well.


Grass8989 t1_j5x71fr wrote

But we can just virtue signal our way out of this, can’t we?


AnneArchy123 t1_j5xttjo wrote

The area around The Row is not the same since the migrants have been housed there the same will happen the more hotels they put them in in Midtown. If I were a tourist I wouldn't book any hotels being used for this purpose.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5yifsb wrote

>If I were a tourist I wouldn't book any hotels being used for this purpose.

The hotels housing migrants have been rented out in full by the city.

The Row was originally supposed to have like 1-2 sectioned off floors for migrants, but the entire hotel was converted into a shelter months ago.


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j5yfhy8 wrote

Billionaire’s Row? Most the people who own apartments in that area don’t live here full time. How bad is it, in your opinion, though?


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5yivcl wrote

>Billionaire’s Row?

Not Billionaire's Row.

"The Row" refers to the hotel of the same name. It was formerly known as Milford Plaza.

It is located on 8th Ave, a few blocks away from Port Authority.


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j5yj1sa wrote

I know it just been a while since I’ve found myself west of 5th. Didn’t immediately click, thanks


AnneArchy123 t1_j5yfrxr wrote

The Row Hotel 8th and 45th


cloudcrafterzNYC t1_j5yihbv wrote

Ahhh my mistake. That place was kind of deteriorating since COVID quarantine but I haven’t been there in a while … have to make it my business to see for myself


George4Mayor86 t1_j5ygpca wrote

There are two main things we have to do:

1: build housing. Yes it will take a few years, but this is a long-term problem. There’s no solution to housing a growing population other than building more homes.

2: defund the nonprofit sector. The city has abandoned its role in service provision and outsourced it to nonprofits, which are wildly inefficient and prone to corruption. We pay an average of 5k a month per bed to the shelters. We have the money to provide excellent social services, we just waste it.


senteroa t1_j5yzer0 wrote

You're missing the biggest thing, which is that the city needs to force landlords to rent the 100,000 rent stabilized apartments which they're having sit empty. And if they don't comply, the units will be taken over by the state.

This is what Barcelona did just a couple years ago to great effect.


uona1 t1_j5zzi2c wrote

Ive been told by study after study that migrants are a net positive to the economy. No distinction was made between income level or any other factors so I can only assume the economists who did it did not think they were relevant. Therefore NYC should be happy to take all the migrants as they are a net positive to the economy.


NSTheWiseOne t1_j5x91xj wrote

I get that it is unreasonable for a city to suddenly support tons of migrants, but I dont get the bit about activists. What do you mean?


Jaaawsh t1_j5ydyki wrote

He means that they have outrageous and self-defeating expectations.


alexapharm t1_j602amr wrote

There are THOUSANDS of empty apartments in this city.


RXisHere t1_j5ymb9x wrote

Agreed we need to prevent them from entering the country unless they follow the property procedure.


sequencedStimuli t1_j5yy3ve wrote

Our immigration system is broken and all significant compromises reached to fix it (usually by a bipartisan working group of US Senators) are shot down by anti-immigrant conservatives. They prefer the status-quo, which allows ample fearmongering during campaign season and limited immigrant quotas, over any systemic changes involving less chaos and more immigrants.

This nation was built by immigrants. We need to fix our system to more smoothly and humanely integrate the next generations of Americans into our society, not piss away huge amounts of money and effort in a failing bid to keep them out.


RXisHere t1_j5zavvo wrote

I'm not anti immigrant just anti illegal immigration. Big difference. Over a million people crossed the border illegally last year is that ok?


UniWheel t1_j61sj58 wrote

>Over a million people crossed the border illegally last year is that ok?

The people in question did not enter illegally.

They are asylum applicants who made themselves known to and were recorded by the federal government at the border, and then were released to await their hearings in accordance with law.

That is literally how asylum law works - a law which they are following, but an aspect of law you are demonstrating complete ignorance of.


RXisHere t1_j621n66 wrote

Not fucking true. They have to cross a point of entry. Sorry bro


sequencedStimuli t1_j5zfl4y wrote

> I'm not anti immigrant just anti illegal immigration. Big difference.

I clearly laid out my position that both the current panic over high “illegal crossings”, and the general discord over undocumented people in the US during the previous decades, are purposefully manufactured political crises sustained by the same people who avoid improving the situation. It’s not a coincidence that as immigration expanded to include all racial groups, it suddenly became much harder to immigrate legally in the second half of the 20th century & after.

I think instead of this broken system, the US should be open to all immigrants in a manner closer to when my Irish and Italian ancestors immigrated legally with ease during the racist Exclusion Era.

> Over a million people crossed the border illegally last year is that ok?

With the context of what I said above, and given the other option is your authoritarian notion of a militarized border & strict enforcement without huge fixes to the system first, yes I am essentially okay with the crossings. Our nation has always had large inflows of immigrants. What has changed is our ineptitude at providing efficient means of legal immigration at scale. The dysfunction serves a cynical purpose.


Grass8989 t1_j5zhj0w wrote

So we should go back to how immigration was 100+ years ago and provide 0 social services, housing, food, medical care, etc that we are allowing to the current migrants? You can’t compare immigration now to how it was back then.


sequencedStimuli t1_j5zivq7 wrote

Good thing I said "in a manner closer to" that era, which leaves ample room for the assumption that a modernized version of the more permissive system is implied, not a direct return to antiquated policy.

But that would be a good-faith assumption, so I understand why you didn't make it.


UniWheel t1_j61rydo wrote

>Agreed we need to prevent them from entering the country unless they follow the property procedure.

You overlook that following the proper procedure is exactly what the people in question have done.

They are asylum applicants who have been paroled in accordance with law to await their hearings.

These are not "illegal imigrants" trying to hide out of sight but persons known to and recorded by the federal government who are legally present while awaiting their legal hearings.

The numbers are indeed an issue. But making false statements (intentionally or ignorantly) about their status does not help the discussion in the slightest.


RXisHere t1_j621p6q wrote

Your right I should have used the term illegal aliens thanks


UniWheel t1_j621zp6 wrote

>Your right I should have used the term illegal aliens thanks

No, the people this article is about are present legally to await their hearings.

Since you have no idea what you're talking about, further debate would be pointless.


senteroa t1_j5yzhqv wrote

Let's start by deporting anti-immigrant weirdos like yourself


virtual_adam t1_j5xa3z8 wrote

He’s obviously just pandering to both sides, but in such a dumb way

  • he’s the one signing off paying for all these extra shelters

  • let’s say it’s deemed that migrants aren’t allowe in NYC homeless shelters. How do you enforce? SSN + photo ids to get a bed in a homeless shelter? What if someone’s ID is from another state? Are we obligated to shelter them?


SuperTeamRyan t1_j5xmcre wrote

A quarter to a third of our housed shelter population moved in directly from out of state so clearly out of state as it was pre pandemic and pre migrant caravan.


MillennialNightmare t1_j5yd1on wrote

Do you have a reliable source for this?


SuperTeamRyan t1_j5ym8qq wrote

Unfortunately I do not have a source outside of resident interviews and intake records that I had to review as part of my past work. I was unable to find place of origin tracking from DHS and a google search only shows that nyp article about one shot deals that blew up and about Puerto Rico sending their homeless here.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5yjmx2 wrote

Do you have a source for this?

25-33% is a pretty sizeable amount, and it would be completely at odds with data available from other "homeless-friendly" jurisdictions like Los Angeles and San Francisco.


FormerKarmaKing t1_j5ygqpy wrote

> “If this humanitarian crisis was simply a right to shelter issue, then only New York City would bear the responsibility for providing for these individuals,” he wrote. “But, as we have made clear for months, and as the Legal Aid even said today, the federal government has an obligation here, as does the state.”

Even if one dislikes Adams, it’s worth noting that what he’s doing with these public statements is publicly campaigning for more federal funds.

And no matter how you vote, campaigning for federal funds is basically our only option as no mayor controls the national border and the state can’t impede the flow of people between states. And we can’t print our own money.

I’m not a fan - to put it mildly - of DeSantis or Abbott, but the “let’s ship immigrants to sanctuary cities” play is clever in that it forces the mayors of the “other side” to also put pressure on the federal government for a tighter southern border. And at a minimum, governors like Hochul and Pritzker have to quietly go along as they can’t or don’t want to have to bail out the cities via the state budget.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5ytj5c wrote

>I’m not a fan - to put it mildly - of DeSantis or Abbott, but the “let’s ship immigrants to sanctuary cities” play is clever in that it forces the mayors of the “other side” to also put pressure on the federal government for a tighter southern border

It also forces the national media, beyond Fox News, to cover the border crisis.

CNN had more exhaustive coverage of a handful of migrants being sent to Martha's Vineyard than when 15,000 Haitian migrants arrived in Del Rio, TX (population 35,000).


Pushed-pencil718 t1_j60i4ik wrote

I think Adams gets a lot of slack but he was dealt a shit hand from the very beginning.


drpvn t1_j5wvsf7 wrote

> “Now, when we talk about a sanctuary city that is codified in law, there was a lawsuit, and this is a state and city of law and order. The courts rule that this is a sanctuary city. We have a moral obligation to fulfill that,” Adams said on WABC’s “Sid & Friends in the Morning” radio show.

Word salad.


1600hazenstreet t1_j5xb6n0 wrote

Seems like he has forgotten that he is the mayor of the city. Complaining is lot easy than taking action to resolve the underlying issues.

Stop acting like a clown, and start leading. Seems like he only wanted the position for the fame, and clout, but not actually put in the work required.


spicytoastaficionado t1_j5yhm58 wrote

There has literally never been a citizenship or ID requirement when it comes to right-to-shelter in this city.

Sorry, Mayor. You held like half a dozen press conferences last year lambasting border states as they were being overrun with migrants. They are just giving you what you asked for when you repeatedly talked about how this city takes care of immigrants.


Also, doing things like spending hundreds of millions of dollars to sign long-term (6+ months) agreements with hotels just encourages more migrants to want to come here.


_Maxolotl t1_j5ytrh5 wrote

well established court precedent: "come at me bro."


NetQuarterLatte t1_j5zk043 wrote

Asylum seekers should have the right to work while their cases are pending.

Instead of being a burden, they could be employed and be net contributors from day 1.

Then, cities with labor shortages would compete for them, rather than trying to bus them elsewhere.

In the US, we still have almost 2 job openings for each unemployed person. No matter how you look at it, the labor shortage will fuel inflation due to supply side constraints.

If an asylum seeker in working conditions doesn't have savings to sustain him/herself, the government should provide housing/food conditional on them performing work (perhaps public service work).


Conscious_Salt4862 t1_j60jg68 wrote

50 children working at a plantation. I wonder how many more businesses are trafficking women and children, paying them a plate of food for service, have them working graveyard shifts?? This is bigger than what we see at hand. Soooo sad.


NetQuarterLatte t1_j5xikam wrote

Why doesn’t the city hire those migrants to build their own shelters?

Maybe someone will correct me, but I believe it’s not illegal if they are hired as independent contractors.

Edit: it’s legal to hire an independent contractor, but the contractor doing the work may be violating the immigration laws and suffer negative immigration consequences because of that.


Scroticus- t1_j5yc6r6 wrote

It's illegal to employ people who do not have work authorization.


NetQuarterLatte t1_j5yf4un wrote

If they work for their own LLC company, who them offer services, does that violate any law?


cum-chatka t1_j5ygxg3 wrote

You can’t conduct business without a proper visa


NetQuarterLatte t1_j5yjt17 wrote

Got it. That would be a problem for the individual running afoul the immigration laws.


1600hazenstreet t1_j5yiewu wrote

Don’t forget to pay them union wages, even though they are not part of the union.


Comprehensive_Heat25 t1_j606ens wrote

I’m trying to figure out what you’re bitter about. Making a decent wage? Union workers not making enough money? Elaborate…


1600hazenstreet t1_j60hxij wrote

Are you familiar with prevailing wages requirements? The city can’t just hire these folks at minimum wage.


KeySea7727 t1_j5yjh7i wrote

Ok, but then why do what you're doing? It doesn't matter opinion, you can't be a dick bringing people here saying it's all gravy then take it back. He wants those federal funds but it seems like he doesn't want to do the work that comes with it. That's all this was about, he wanted that influx of money which he got but now he's changing the tune.

I live in the area and it's not as bad as people make it sound. Honestly, the migrants duking it out with the zombies out there isn't a great sight. Then to see them all taking donations from local churches and food banks but wasting the food they get for free (to be fair they had easier access to fresh food), it's tough times for these people. The sidewalks and streets are filled with them not obeying traffic as they're rushing to deliver UberEats just trying to figure out how to get by. I just couldn't imagine being out here, not knwing the language, no way to make money, and you're in the pits of Manhattan.


AnneArchy123 t1_j60p34d wrote

Yea I noticed the huge row of scooters across from the hotel and guys in the lobby with bikes. They're making money illegally.


uona1 t1_j5zz915 wrote

wut lol. If something is a right then its a right


juniperaza t1_j60mn2x wrote

I just want to make a general comment. Isn’t it funny how Americans are suddenly against immigration despite the US being responsible for most of the destabilization of these immigrants’ countries? And now thanks to these headlines, all the xenophobes want to come of whatever hole they were in to voice their opinions. Ignorance is somehow always the loudest.


manateefourmation t1_j6gtfw0 wrote

What a ridiculous comment. “[T]he US being responsible for most of the destabilization” 😂 😂😂


juniperaza t1_j6h0r4l wrote

It’s not ridiculous. Take a foreign policy class on US involvement in central/South America.


manateefourmation t1_j6hobod wrote

The US interference has absolutely nothing to do with the crises in these countries of today. Take a class.


juniperaza t1_j6hofsb wrote

It has everything to do with US interference lol. Google Guatemala, bananas, and Jacobo Arbenz. There’s an example for you.

So no, you take a class idiot.