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PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5ykqcn wrote

Never understood how people could live in New York City, with its history of immigration, and still land on “deport the illegals!”

The entire country, especially food service, would crumble if we deported illegal immigrants. Grant easy pathways to citizenship, it’s not that hard. They are here already, working jobs and living like everyone else it’s just not out in the open


CarlCarbonite t1_j5yt9ja wrote

Because legal immigrants, like myself, dislike illegal immigrants. My family paid a very hefty price to live in NYC. Blood, sweat and tears literally. To come here illegally is to spit on people who worked for their citizenship, their visas and their green cards. It should require effort and commitment to live and work in NYC. Immigration is fine but illegal immigration is not. I agree the process should be easier and honestly cheaper (we paid about 20k a person over the course of 20 years to get US citizenship. From work visa, to sponsorship for a green card to eventual naturalization. I came here when I was 5 and finally became a US citizen at 25.)


sequencedStimuli t1_j5yv2mi wrote

The US immigration system turning legal vs illegal immigrants against each other is by design. There's no reason the system has to be so broken that millions feel like coming illegally, living on the margins, and risking deportation is a more feasible option than attempting one of the purposefully cumbersome, overly bureaucratic routes.

Anti-immigrant Americans and their elected officials understand that they can probably never close off the US to immigration entirely, due to our nation's history. But they're more than happy to never compromise in order to fix the system, and they definitely love the animosity the systemic dysfunction sparks between different immigrant groups, their families, and their communities. It quite literally helps keep xenophobic politicians in office, or gives them a cultural wedge issue to use in campaigning even if their jurisdiction is nowhere near the border.

Edit: phrasing


deathhand t1_j64vwrp wrote

How do you answer the resources question? There simply isn't enough to go around for what we have, how do we handle more?


talldrseuss t1_j5yynoe wrote

You don't speak for all legal immigrants, bud. My family and I are legal immigrants (now citizens) that came back in the 80s. I remember the complete chaos and poverty from the country we left. Fortunately my father had a high demand Job the US was looking for at the time so we were able to get sponsorship, and jsut like you, it took years to come into fruition.

But i'm human enough to understand if my family is dealing with a shit environment, food insecurity, gangs running around, corrupt government that has no problem if you disappear, I would do anything to get my loved ones out of there. So no, not all legal immigrants look at undocumented individuals with disdain.


AcrossAmerica t1_j63jtet wrote

You can also be against illegal immigration but not see them with distain.

How many people are now crossing the border every year? 2+ million? How is that sustainable for a country?


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5z10fl wrote

If you have seen, first hand, how messed up and twisted our legal immigration system is, why would you push others into the same cycle? 20k per person is ridiculous, what if I can’t afford that? Just work until I can? It takes years to go through this process and frankly I have no idea how you’d be supportive of a system you clearly see flaws in.

Illegal immigrants do not come here take opportunities away from you. They don’t take jobs away from Americans. They come and provide a NECESSARY resource to keep this city functioning. That is more than enough reason for me, to support them in any way possible.

You are reaching the top, and then pulling the ladder up on those who can’t afford to wait years and spend 20k per person. Their actions do not invalidate your struggle. I am also a child of an immigrant to the US, and see no reason to use this barbaric and arbitrary system as some sort of bar for who should and shouldn’t be allowed to stay


Sergster1 t1_j5z2ij4 wrote

> If you have seen, first hand, how messed up and twisted our legal immigration system is, why would you push others into the same cycle?

Please look at other nations' legal immigration systems before you scorn ours. By comparison, America has one of the best. The reason it fails is due to the sheer volume of people we let in.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zbx4c wrote

Ok I looked it up. Am I now allowed to scorn the “pau to play” system we have in the US? Being relatively better than others doesn’t change anything if you were still asking people to spend a decade and thousands of dollars before being allowed to come to the US


Sergster1 t1_j5zcaxo wrote

America lets in the MOST immigrants out of any other nation in the world additionally we dont automatically bar people from immigrating due to not having higher education.

Also the US is not any less pay-to-play than any other foreign nation. Legal immigration is fucking expensive wherever you go. The difference is we dont require that people be skilled migrants.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zdlzg wrote

> Being relatively better than others doesn’t change anything if you were still asking people to spend a decade and thousands of dollars before being allowed to come to the US

Did you skip over this part lol? Better or worse than others doesn’t matter if the bar is still too high. Personally I don’t think it’s right that to come to the US you have to spend that much money.

Idk what else to say. Telling me to just be happy with it cuz others places are worse doesn’t change my view in the slightest


Sergster1 t1_j5zed2g wrote

Being asked to spend a decade to immigrate is infinitely better than just being outright barred because your socioeconomic situation in your home country bans you from even applying. Remember higher education, which is the bar for most other 1st world nations' immigration policy, is a product of your personal wealth and social factors.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zfxeq wrote

Lol maybe dream bigger? You seem perfectly content with our system now just because other places are worse. You make no arguments about the validity of our immigration practices, you just compare them to other countries to make it seem like we’re doing a great job.

Use your immigration a little to think of how it could ALL be better. Cheers lol


Sergster1 t1_j5zgg0c wrote

Of course we could do better however I'm not very keen at bashing our immigration policies while turning a blind eye to other nations.

Additionally, I do not believe it is America's directive to pull up other nations members via immigration. Not only does it contribute to the brain drain of foreign nations but it also strains the situation here at home for low-skilled labor.


bushwickauslaender t1_j61u0fq wrote

>America lets in the MOST immigrants out of any other nation in the world

This hasn't been true for a while. Last year, for instance, the US received slightly over a million immigrants (1.01M) while Germany received 1.2M.

You may argue that Germany had the Russian Invasion of Ukraine as a big catalyst, but I counter that Germany is a quarter of the size of the US so in theory should be receiving a quarter of the number of immigrants as the US, not more.

Germany is also a country where you can easily turn a work visa into permanent residence, and can eventually become a citizen. Most foreigners working in the US cannot do that.

Myself included, as much as I'd like to have the peace of mind of a Green Card rather than depend on my employer being kind enough to keep me employed so I can keep my visa.


Sergster1 t1_j631ioz wrote

Immigration policy's main goal is to stave off issues from your nation having a declining birthrate, therefore, straining the economy due to the shrinking of its working-age population and increasing of the tax burden of the remaining working-age population to pay for the social services of those outside of it.

Size of a nation has very little to do with why a country allows for more immigration, and this chart explains very well why Germany has chosen to change their policy. .

Immigration is not done as a courtesy to those in need that is what asylum is for. Immigration serves exclusively to prop up the nation receiving immigrants. Theres no such thing as

> the US so in theory should be receiving a quarter of the number of immigrants as the US, not more.

The main metric for if a country should be receiving more immigrants or not is can the current population sustain the economy once people age out.


bushwickauslaender t1_j61s7ln wrote

>Please look at other nations' legal immigration systems before you scorn ours

Having lived in 6 different countries and dealt with the legal immigration systems to work in 5 of them, I can confidently say that the US is absolutely dog shit at handling immigration. Sure it's probably better than, like, Venezuela, but most OECD countries are lightyears ahead of them.


Sergster1 t1_j6328zd wrote

Immigration Services and Work Authorization services are mutually exclusive.


bushwickauslaender t1_j63og1k wrote

I became a citizen in one of them, a permanent resident in another, and had the option of applying for permanent residence if I so desired in two others, meanwhile if I so much as suggest a desire to become a permanent resident of the US I jeopardize my work visa. But sure, go off.


Sergster1 t1_j642gin wrote

I don’t know dude. I think you’re probably the worst person to be advocating for immigration reform considering you’re a habitual migrant based on what you said.

Im actually completely okay in your case if applying for permanent residency in the US jeopardizes your work visa since you are likely to be relatively well off to go through the process multiple times.


Grass8989 t1_j5z4044 wrote

Most other countries require proof of income and a job so they know you won’t become a burden on their social services. We do not.


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zl9s8 wrote

I love all the immigration experts on this thread that have no idea Wtf they are talking about lol.


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zl79d wrote

It depends on what visa type you are talking about. This is a blanket statement that is absolutely not always accurate. To qualify for a marriage based green card for instance there are income requirements (ie you need an eligible “sponsor.”). Pretty sure the same is true for student visas.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zc4za wrote

Great. How does that change a single thing I said? We still require years of dedication and thousands of dollars to legally immigrate to the US


Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_j5za1m9 wrote

they said the 20k was over the course of 20 years, so it's not like they're demanding it all at once. this is also not the cost of immigrating but the cost of getting citizenship which are not at all the same.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j5zccoa wrote

The cost is still ridiculously high for most people, not sure why it makes a difference. There’s tons of research out there about how much it costs the average person in application fees, time, effort, and postage


Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 t1_j5zgv0u wrote

I just don't think "what if I don't have 20k" makes a lot of sense as a question if the 20k is over 20 years, especially given that as an immigrant someones financial situation would likely be changing dramatically as they progress along the path from arriving to citizenship. that person also does agree with you that it should be cheaper so it's a little odd that you're stuck on it so much. what you guys actually disagree on is whether it's ethical to break the rules if you think the cost is too high


Silvery_Silence t1_j5zkrr0 wrote

I am married to a “legal” immigrant and I can promise you he doesn’t dislike illegal immigrants. Exaggerate much? I am certain there are many legal immigrants who don’t want you speaking for them. FYI many immigrants who are at one time here illegally later get green cards. I know you can still get a green card based on marriage even if you are a visa overstay, as one example. So it’s not nearly as clear cut as all legal immigrants were always here legally.


birthdaycakefig t1_j64ouhd wrote

You’re kidding yourself if you think an illegal immigrant has the same opportunity and choices you did. Let alone the risk and issues they face.

If you really thought it’s the same at the end of the day, you would have done it that way too. But you know the quality of life an illegal immigrant has is different than yours and that’s why you went your route.

You were a citizen after 20 years and I bet you could travel much sooner. Some people come here, never see their family again and potentially can never work a legal job or have proper rights their whole life.

Not trying to say you should feel sorry for them, just stop thinking that they somehow are in your same position.

No one is spitting on anyone, you simply made different choices and now live with a different reality.


AnneArchy123 t1_j60q3qe wrote

The ones in Midtown are living in an area where the average 1BR is $4K/month for free and getting fed while so many legal, taxpaying NY'ers are struggling to make ends meet.


PhillyFreezer_ t1_j60wk7g wrote

How about…wait for it…both sets of human beings struggle less and have their basic needs met by the state. Why is it always a choice between one or the other? Neither should struggle and we can work towards that goal at the same rime