I mean, if she repeated it many times you have to make a decision to give out some information to mark down and have a shot at the job or listen to reddit blindly and have no opportunity of getting it. Obviously you chose the reddit. In the future, be prepared with how much you want and what the current market is for the job you're applying for so you know if you're in that ball park.

If it's a company you really want to work for be prepared to make concessions to reach your goal and know what you're worth.

It's a common negotiation tactic to try to avoid being the first person to give a number and not just in salary negotiations (and the advice is given much more broadly than here in Reddit), but if it's their company policy to require that information, you should have just given it.

> I responded with my prepared Reddit-approved counters. "I am compensated in accordance with market rate for my responsibilities and experience". "I look forward to hearing more about this role's responsibilities before making a decision". "I will consider any offers in line with the market rate for the role".

Yikes. I'm not surprised the HR person got annoyed if you're just robotically replying with prepared counters.

This isn't about not taking Reddit advice, this is about having decent people skills. It's important to read the room and you need to be a bit flexible in a conversation. Illustrating that you are completely inflexible and hold a conversation like a robot is how you get shown the door.

Some of this just comes with more experience, but in the meantime, you might consider doing some salary negotiation "practice" with a friend that's good at this, watch some videos on the topic (avoid clips from movies or television), etc.

Reddit’s not always right. I never tell them my current salary but I of course tell them my expected salary to the comma. How else would know how much to pay me? I’m in Europe though, maybe we do it differently (which we actually do since we still require pictures along with applications)

HR probably has a field they are required to populate. If you know what your salary expectation is, and HR is forcing your hand, you can just say it. Add 20% if you want. It's just a number.

I've had many interviews end early because they cannot meet my salary expectations. It's good for both sides because you dont want to waste eachothers time in rounds interviews just to find out they can't pay what you're asking.

> According to Reddit

There is a lot of Reddit that is full of bad advice, including - given the demographics of the environment - a lot that is based on the notion that employers are inherently adversarial. You should ignore them.

> Did I play this wrong at all? This experience has made me more suspicious of taking Reddit advice that goes against the "real world" common sense grain to be honest.

Yes, you played it wrong.

An employer needs to know roughly what you expect to determine if it's worth the time of their generally well-paid employees to continue interviewing you. If they can't make that assessment, you'll get told to go home.

The average cost of a first-round interview with 4 people involved (a recruiter, an HR person setting the interview, two actual interviewers) is going to be anywhere from $500 to $1,000. It gets more expensive from there.

Next time, have an actual answer, like "I'd expect X to Y dollars depending on benefits and stock plan."

You didn't "dodge a bullet" here, as others are saying. I would never and have never pushed a candidate to a second-round interview if they didn't tell me what they expected to earn in the posting. If I have no hope of matching it, then of course a second round interview would waste everybody's time, and I'm not sure where "Willingness to waste the time of everybody involved" became a hallmark of a good company.

Lol, you messed up. A lot of companies have a hard starting point on salaries, they just want to know if you will be OK with that number and not waste time with someone wanting 20k a year more. If I asked that question and got your answers I would be like this guy can't answer a simple question why should he work here when all his answers sound like some YouTube police audit guy

This is a fantastic example of why Reddit's advice needs to be seen through the lens of "this person desperately wants to be right" instead of "these guys know exactly what to do".

I've been asked this in interviews and ALWAYS answered. The actual salary answer I give may not be completely accurate (I include bonuses and everything I can fabricate to get it to where I need to be) but the salary expectation always is.

Lesson learned on this one. Reddit is fantastic for opinions but it's also filled with people pretending to be experts just because they've read other advice and are acting like they've applied it in real life without actually doing so. They're so eager to be the one giving out pearls of wisdom that they disregard any caution in doing so.

Sorry man, it's not something obvious to know and interviews/situations are very fluid. You could send a thank-you letter back with the salary information and also an apology saying something to the effect of "I was given painfully bad advice by a friend that I didn't realize wasn't professional until reaching out to more credible sources. I am excited about this opportunity so if there's any chance to amend this then please let me know!"

It never hurts, especially if it's a job you'd really like. The apology would go a long way for potentially future applications/positions too.

I won't give my current salary but I will always provide a target. You want to make sure you are in the same ballpark before you waste time on 3 interviews.

Now the number you throw out should be what you actually want plus like 10 or 20% so you have negotiation room though.

I think the biggest issue here is that you didn't read the room. Ideally, sure. You don't jump to giving numbers out. Your pre-prepared answers were OK. But based on your description, there was a point where the HR person was making it clear to you that they were looking for actual numbers from you. In my opinion, this would have been the time to pivot, and throw out some numbers on what your salary expectations were. I'd have said something along the lines of "Based on market rates for this position, and factoring in my current salary, I would need a salary of X in order to justify leaving my current position." Something along those lines. Instead, you stuck to the generic advice of not giving any ground. This particular employer called that bluff.

Yea you see your mistake was that you applied Reddit to real life.

It's realistic to at least provide a range, make that range favorable to you though. Negotiations can then start. It makes no sense to interview someone if their earning expectations are beyond what the employer is willing to provide, so this makes sense on their part.

What State did this occur in?

Specifically, AL, CA, CO, CT, DE, DC, HI, IL, ME, MA, MD, NJ, NY, NC, OR, PA (state agencies only), VT, VA and WA.

If you're in any of those states, you need to call the labor board in your state and file a report. In those states it's strictly illegal to ask for your past salary history, let alone make it a condition of continuing an interview.

Not sure about the downvotes, OP indicated he was asked salary history. Which depending upon where it occurred could be illegal.

Why is the onus on the candidate to state what salary they are looking for rather than the company to state what the position will pay?

Each subs got a different demographic, same with reddit as a whole or source of media. Unfortunately you didn't read the person and doubled down on advice that wasn't suited no matter how many up votes. It's life.. Not reddit. Hopefully a life lesson learnt though?

I usually ask what’s budgeted. Then they either tell me or force my hand and if they force my hand I just say a number that’s higher than what I’d actually want and hope for the best. My current job actually went $20k above what I said I’d need to leave my last job.

No, it’s a company you don’t want to work for.

Is this for real or am I falling for some sort of joke?

I think you followed some poor advice, particularly if your actual response was "I am compensated in accordance with the market rate..." If you said something like that to me, I'd say thank you. Good bye.

If you want to play games like that, better to just get a good job at a salary you can negotiate and then head out on interviews with that line. Who knows. You might get lucky.

I always tell them at least $5k over my current salary as my actual salary. Works out well.

I always just say that my current salary is higher than it actually is. If we are getting to this point, they’ve usually already talked to my prior manager. People also like to haggle——when I sold a car on Craigslist, I wanted $4k for it, but I listed it as $6.3k so that when the buyers came and started doing the haggle dance, I played along and made them feel like they were getting a deal. We both “won”.

Yeah, you played it wrong. Contrary to the mentality of people in some of the subReddits, here, employers are not your parents, and will have definite limits of what they will put up with.

Frankly, if I was interviewing someone for a job, and I did not NEED you, I would have kicked you to the curb as well.

Next time, if they are pushing for something like that, just make some shit up.

I think there's two points to consider.

First is the request for your current salary. In several states it's actually illegal to ask that (I'm assuming you're not in one of those), but regardless, there's a polite way of saying that's not relevant if you don't want to disclose it. If this causes the company to back out, you probably dodged a bullet.

Second is the request for your desired salary. You should have done some research and had a ballpark figure to offer. At the very least, say something like, "I would like to earn something in the $X-Y range, but that's flexible depending on the benefits package." If you're not willing to even do this, the company likely dodged a bullet.

Where are you located? In about half the country, it's illegal to ask how much you are currently making. Even if you are located where it's legal, I HATE this question and advise people to not answer it. But I don't advise people to just not answer at all. You should respond with the salary you are seeking like, "Based on market rates and my experience, I am seeking a salary of $X." Like a real number based upon the market rate of similar positions in your area and your experience. It is a waste of everyone's time to proceed if you will not accept anything under $150K, but they are unable to offer anything over $120K. If you are eventually offered a position, and find out during the process that it will involve more responsibilities than you realized, then negotiate based on that. But don't just not answer the question at all.

So while I get and appreciate you not wanting to disclose what you are currently making, since it's really only used to low-ball people on offers, I don't understand why you refused to offer your salary expectations, as I don't see any reason to not give that information.

FWIW, I've worked in HR for decades.

This is your lesson not to take advice from people who don't care about you personally. People usually give advice based on THEIR experience, which may or may not apply to you. If you are moving to a company that pays higher than the current one, and you really want to work for them anyway, that means they hold all the cards. In what world does it make sense to "stand your ground" when you have 0 cards in your hand? We don't negotiate for the sake of negotiating, we negotiate for our goals using the leverage i have. You had no leverage and negotiating was against your goals, yet you went and negotiated anyway, so they told you to walk. It's not a big deal, there is nothing to be shocked or dismayed about. Just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, remove the unrealistic assumptions about the world that you seem to be carrying with you to these interviews, and carry on interviewing.

I've hired a lot of people in my career, and I completely understand why someone would want to keep their salary and even their salary expectations private. However, I also have a hiring budget and there are limits on what I can realistically offer. If someone wants 120k and my budget maximum is 90k, there is no reason to continue the dialogue. Some companies have flexibility, other companies don't. It's also highly role-dependent, some roles can basically name their price, others not so much. I definitely recommend at least having a ball-park in mind.

Very normal.

Some recruiting processes have canidate selection spreadsheets that need to be filled out. This is part of their decision making and a means of accountability for the recruiter.

By playing it coy, the recruiter couldn't fill out the form so therefore rejected you outright.

I've rejected dozens of entry level candidates over the years for incomplete/inaccurate applications.

I can see not telling them your current salary, but you did t even tell them your salary expectations? Did you ask what the salary range for the position was? idk man, your heart is in the right place but I feel like there are more nuanced ways to navigate this.

Don't ever trust Reddit. Many Redditors are just kids fantasizing about sticking it to employers,

Sometimes, there are mutually beneficial things to do, like giving a salary range to save people time. You don't need to stick it to employers to further your own career goals.

Unless you work in a jurisdiction that outlaws the question, I would answer it.

So yes, you got bad advice. Learn from this. Salary negotiation is a give and take exercise with 3 outcomes

1. You both agree on a price
2. Your price is too high
3. Their price is too low

They have their policies, and you gave them no reason to change them. So, they walked away.

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Flip, it back on them. Ask the range allocated for the role, and if it's in line with expectations say you're confident we can come to an agreement.

In the past couple years we've been specifically told that we are not allowed to ask what someone makes, that we can only ask what they are looking for. I ask for a ball park range when I am hiring because I don't have time to waste on people trying to convince me they should get $200k a year which is more than I make and more than my manager probably makes. I guess since I am personable, they usually tell me or give me some clue. Say the job target is $125, I tell them, "hey, I'm not trying to low ball you, I just want to make sure we're not wasting each others time. I have people come in and tell me something out of line like they need $150 to make a move so it doesn't make sense to continue. If you tell me you need $100k to make the move, and you are qualified , you will be very happy with our offer." Usually that gets the conversation going and they give me a hint.

Here's a link to the states that ban asking for salary history: https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/states-with-salary-history-bans/#:~:text=An%20employer%20or%20employment%20agency%20cannot%20ask%20a,able%20to%20ask%20about%20your%20current%20salary%20expectations.

Never give out your current salary. That's not what this interview is about. Employees often forget that the entire 'getting a job' thing is one big negotiation when you boil it all down. It's not about 'being a team player', 'getting your foot in the door' or 'doing what's best for the company.' It's simply about 'here's work that needs to be done, here's why I can do that work for you and here's how much $$$ I'm willing to do it for and how much $$$ you're willing to pay for that work to be done.'

What your current employer pays you is none of their business. It's about what this company is willing to pay me for my work. The only way I'd give out my current salary is if the company tells me what their end budget is for that particular position. Otherwise if they insist or find that it is a turn-off, they aren't worth working for and they can go pound sand.

But keeping with the negotiation theme, it's perfectly okay to give your salary expectations because that's about half of what you're negotiating. It's just that if you want to win the negotiation, your goal is to get the company to tell you what their salary is for the position *first*. It's just difficult to get that because most companies know that is a way to lose a negotiation and that they have more leverage in the situation.

When I tell them my expectations I tell them a little more than what I am looking for. If I'm looking for $100K, I will say to the effect 'I'm looking for around $105K, but I would be willing to negotiate in the end. Am I somewhere in the ballpark with that figure?'

If you know your market and your market value they may come back and say 'well, that's a little higher than we were expecting.' And the reply to that is just to reiterate that you're willing to negotiation if the opportunity looks like the right fit. If they say that is well outside their budget then it wasn't the right company for you and just move on.

But in the end, you had every right to not tell them your current salary. It's none of their business.

It’s a learning experience.

I’m general, yes, don’t bring up salary yourself at an interview. And if asked, it’s best to either first say “willing to consider a reasonable Offer” or “considering offers over $xx”. Don’t give an absolute amount unless you are really pushed to.

I’d you progress to an in-person interview, it’s a good idea to have a rough idea of what you’d be ok with (salary + bonus + health benefits).

>This experience has made me more suspicious of taking Reddit advice

As my momma once told me... "free advice is worth what you paid for it". Sticking to your guns is one thing but being able to read the room and decide the best course of action will do you best.

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You, and only you, can make the decision as to sharing comp history and/or putting a future comp expectation on the table being proper in the given situation. The rest of us offer opinions based on limited scenario information and playing arm chair QB. No right / wrong answer on how you handled it. Learn from the experience and good luck moving forward.

The reddit advice is correct that if you can get away with it, not stating a salary expectation and making the employer give the first number is likely to get you a higher salary. But of course the employer knows this too and wants to pay as little as possible, which is why they try to get you to give the first number. So it comes down to who has the most power in the negotiation. In most industries at most times, the employer has way more power than the employee and can just refuse to hire someone who won’t give a number because there are plenty of other candidates, as you discovered. But a disproportionate number of reddit users work in software engineering and related fields, and until recently employees in those fields had a lot of leverage when it comes to salary negotiations like this, which is probably where the advice comes from. Basically, this is good advice if you know there are lots of companies that would want to hire you, because it will maximize your salary at the risk of potentially shutting the door at one company. It’s not good advice if you really want to work at a particular company and aren’t trying to maximize your salary or expect to have few options.

1. When it comes to people interactions such as with jobs, relationships, friendships where the redditors ask of you to be the "tough guy"...never listen to reddit. So many people here glamourize what really happen and lie.
2. If an interviewer doubles down on a question, that means they really want an answer give it them the true answer or lie.
3. If you really want something and its going to benefit you, sometimes you gotta take a hit. Lets say you really got paid 30 an hour and because of that they offered 35 an hour when they really were prepared to give you 40 an hour...well at least you got a raise and you can move up the next time.
4. Be polite at all times during an interview. Anything you say in a negative tone, any vague answer you give will be multiplied times 10 in how they look at you.

You made a mistake.

Brigette Hyacinth is on YouTube and LinkedIn and has great videos on interview tips.

Yeah I'd have ended it too. If a salesperson or whoever is giving me runaround non-answers like that, c-ya.

Did they explain why? It's very odd to me that they need your current comp.

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Where are you located? Your location can make a difference. For example, in some states in the US, refusal to disclose the salary range when you asked is illegal and can get that company in big trouble with labor boards. But that is not the case everywhere.

Going forward, I recommend you first look up salary transparency laws for where you live and where the company is based. Then use that information to decide how tough of a stance feels comfortable for you. For me, I live in an area with salary transparency, so I would refuse, state the law, refuse again, and finally report the company if they still did not comply. But, I have the law on my side.

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Yes, you made a mistake. Any sort of reddit advice should always be qualified with "Your milage may vary" because there are few rules that are universal.However once you mentioned the interviewer was "getting annoyed" you were probably done, since the HR person probably flagged you as difficult/ refused to answer "simple" questions.

Once it started into a back and force you should have either answered.

1. If your state allows them to validate it with your current employer: then you should answer honestly.
2. If your state doesn't, then you could give a number which "is in line with market rate for your responsibilities and experience"

I’ve been on both sides of the table. For me, I always offer my current salary. There is no need to go through the whole interview process is salary expectations are not in line. Also, it seems oddly evasive if hiding your salary expectations is not done properly. If you are planning not to share, have a well-rehearsed reason for why not.

Surprised no one has said send them an email telling them you're salary expectations and see if they still come back to you.

Some states have laws against asking salary history. I don't give my current salary.

I always give my salary expectation with the caveat that it may fluctuate depending on benefits, bonus system, et cetera. It seems odd to NOT give a salary expectation.

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/4037-illegal-interview-questions.html

There’s a lot of folks that seem sure fire on here, doesn’t mean they’re right. In my experience, take it or leave it, it only helps to disclose the amount you are looking for and being payed. You can always say that you are due for a review and raise at you current job and are expecting x amount, which should be in the ballpark of what you are looking to get paid at a new job. Sure it’s your right to not give out that info, but consider beyond that if it’s really going to benefit you at all to do so, or if you’re only doing it based off some shit you read online. In the end this is a learning experience and I hope you find the job and pay you are looking for.

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As a hiring manager I'd be furious if a grunt from HR took it upon herself to send a candidate packing like that.

I would have just lied about my current salary to prevent them from low balling me. But if you're more of a boy scout than I am, just because they know what your current salary is doesn't mean you have to bend on what your expectations are. If they don't meet your expectations, they don't meet your expectations, so then you walk.

Went better than my interview , I went for a sales job with an office supplies company and when I told them I expected $250,000 a year their jaws practically hit the floor , I mean INFLATION guys , they asked an honest question , I gave an honest answer and they said get out 🙄🙄.

next time, unless it's public knowledge, you can always inflate your current salary a bit

In some states it is illegal to disqualify individuals for not giving salary info

Had a coworker get a job that was supposed to be high salary and when she saw her paycheck it was not. The company hired her at her previous employers pay.

For every complex problem, there is a simple and wrong answer.

For what it's worth, I think it's great that you are out there practicing and learning by trial and error; it takes time to learn the art of people skills and negotiation. Just thinking off the cuff here, but it seems to me there is a spectrum for how hard or soft one would want to negotiate depending on the specific situation, and it certainly takes into account how badly you want/need the job versus how badly the potential employer wants/needs you and what bargaining leverage each of you has. Given that this HR person easily ended the conversation, it tells me that they have other viable candidates and were ready and willing to move on if an applicant is not willing to acquiesce in this particular instance.

It's normal. I get why you don't want to tell them your current salary but why not tell the expectations? It's a waste of time for you and the company if they can't offer what you think you deserve for that job. In any case, you can say your expectation salary and tell them you are flexible with other offer if it's reasonable for the tasks to be done. Before to give a estimate salary, do some research about how much it's a reasonable salary for the amount of task of the job and see if you need more or not.

I had an interview for a permanent position in the team I had been contracting for. To make it harder, one of my (junior) coworkers was on the interview panel. When the HR person asked me what my salary expectations were, rather than name any numbers (which would have caused friction since I was making significantly more that the person in my team on the interview) my response was "I know what the salary bands for POSITION and senior POSITION are. I think with my skills and experience I am in the middle to slightly above the midpoint of the senior POSITION salary band."

My team lead was really happy with that response and the offer I got was at the top of the senior POSITION band.

I don't believe she has any way of knowing your actual current salary. In that scenario, I'd simply say a current salary within 15% to 25% of my new salary expectations. Moreover, your expected salary is something you should be aware of from your own market research. Some professions early on in your career may require some guess work. You need to say a number you're happy with. I've said a number 10 to 15% higher many times. If they are interested in you as a candidate, they will work with you.

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Knowing salary expectations is important when interviewing for skill based jobs. Interviewing people is not free for companies and if there isn't a realistic expectation that we can afford you then there is no reason to waste interviewers' time.

Not sure what the job was but ya you definitely played that one wrong. You can just add 10-20k to what you're making and say it's your current salary and you're looking for 10-20% more.

You were right not to provide your current salary, because it's not relevant. If pressed, I would have given a range for the new role.

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"it's common advice that you should never give your current salary or salary expectations in an interview"

That's the goal. But it's not black and white. The entire process is a dance. If you show up with clown shoes on and stomp on their toes they're going to show you the door. You need to learn to play the game, do the dance and turn it to your advantage.

Ok to give salary expectations “based on your current understanding of the role”. If it turns out to be way different than initially presented, you can tell them at time of any offer that you feel the job requires more and should pay more.

I don't think you were on the wrong, Maybe you could've offered a salary band, but they only want to know what you currently make to lowball you.

I like this advice: https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/keep-salary-wraps

Most important thing to learn from this lesson: it's important to not only read the advice, but also to understand why certain advice is given. In your example, the recommendation is to not share salary (be it current or desired) is there to avoid getting a low offer. But if you have done research and know how much the position is worth, there's no harm at all in sharing your desired salary in that range.

And then never forget that recruiters are humans. In good companies, recruiters are actually pretty good humans. Good companies understand that giving a candidate an offer below market rate is the easiest path towards attrition issues. So they are not trying to screw you over. Twice already I have said to a different recruiters "I would accept the offer as it is, but I would highly appreciate it the numbers were a little higher" and twice I got a better offer (if you read Reddit you would think this can never ever happen). So read the people, read the company. Lots of crappy places out there, but lots of decent ones too - so don't go into conversation with hr as a battle, rather a discussion with a human being where you can learn more about company and they can learn about you.

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Interestingly, in some places it’s actually against the law to ask people their current salary - and in some places, the salary range for the position must be posted.

It’s a shame when companies want all of the information and aren’t willing to meet the candidate halfway. Those are usually the companies not really worth working for.

OP, many companies have policy that they are not suppose to ask your current comp and you are not entitled to answer that as well but if a recruiter is crossing the line by asking your salary and If a candidate is throwing a rehearsed line, I am not surprised they ended the call. Try to rephrase that and deviate from the topic instead of repeating the similar response. Regarding your expectations, instead of saying, i’ll make determination later, give them the salary range for the position you are applying and add say, you will be able to provide better and more accurate number once you have detailed understanding of the role and responsibilities.

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"According to Reddit, that's what they always say and you need to stand firm."

​

:/

Many job applications request you to list your current salary, so if you don't you run the risk of submitting an incomplete application. It is what it is. Maybe they'll lowball you if they see you haven't made much at the current job, who knows. Biggest thing on salary expectations is to bet on yourself and shoot high. They will never offer you more than you quote them unless they're somehow obligated to. Worst they can do is laugh at you and not offer you the job. More likely they'll laugh at you and offer you something lower than you quoted but possibly still acceptable to you. I learned this the hard way when a less experienced candidate made more than I did because they requested an outrageous starting salary for the industry.

I once told them I wasn’t allowed to discuss salary. There was something about it written in my contract.

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Seems like you lack critical thinking.

Should take every advice on Reddit with a grain of salt, as it's most likely be not applicable to your situation or broadly exaggerated, particularly in subreddit such as /antiwork.

You definitely played this wrong and as other comments posted, many of the advices on Reddit are from young people that are very adversarial towards employers, and obviously that's not applicable in real world, especially when you land higher paying jobs.

Yea I think you screwed the pooch on this one. How can they proceed if you won't tell them how much you expect to earn? You gotta give up some info at least

Probably you dodged a bullet and it's better to find a different company. when this question comes up, you do need to understand that refusing to answer may have some small chance of them rejecting you for that reason. You sort of need to weigh that possibility against how excited you are to work for the company.

Or you dodged a bullet.

They likely were exactly the type of firm to low ball you and waste your time and energy. You just cut to the chase and can now find a job that is worth your time.