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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2dgva9 wrote

3.25% for echeck is robbery. The bank the HOA uses doesn’t charge them that high of an amount for ACH debits. 3.25% makes sense for credit card payments due to credit card processing fees, but I’d be willing to accept $3.25 for an echeck since the HOA mgmt company is probably paying ~$1 for each transaction.

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OutlyingPlasma t1_j2e1eys wrote

> credit card processing fees

aka, the cost of doing business. When did it become acceptable for business to pass on every expense as a separate fee hiding the real cost of a product or service?

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e28dc wrote

My property management company charges a $50 rent processing fee every month like it takes teams of people to get my money electronically

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TinCupChallace t1_j2e2ozj wrote

Unless it was disclosed in the lease, it's not legal

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e45et wrote

I already tried to take them to court because they failed to disclose an active cockroach infestation that I discovered the first day I moved in. Spent $400 on consulting fees for three different lawyers who all told me the same thing: in my state the property management companies basically write the laws and pay teams of lawyers to the extent that it would cost me far more to fight it

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ThePretzul t1_j2e917l wrote

Mandatory fees not disclosed in the lease are an open and shut small claims court case in all 50 states in the US, with the property management company themselves paying your filing costs in addition to the amount they’ve illegally charged in fees (with some states tacking on additional punitive damages for good measure).

That said they’re allowed to charge fees for various “convenient” forms of payment. Mailed or hand-delivered cash or check are always fee-free unless otherwise specified in the lease (and fee-free regardless of what the lease says in most states which require at least one fee-free option to pay rent).

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e9tul wrote

And then the property management company doubles my rent to the point that I have to move out because there are zero laws against it here. So now I'm stuck looking for another rental in my kids school district but now every time a rental company does a background check for a history of evictions they see I had a civil suit against my previous landlord so I can't find a new place to live in the 30 days I have to move.

No thanks. Not worth the $600 I'd get back from the bullshit fees.

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themoslucius t1_j2e4jqa wrote

My building's payment portal charges $75 if I pay by card. I never once used it and have my rent check mailed in via my bank. They rolled out a new app for paying as well, similar fees - didn't even install it.

Don't pay rent in wonky ways. They can supply an address for snail mail and there's no fee

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2e9osl wrote

The really funny thing is that it costs them a LOT more in labor to process a physical check that it would an electronic payment.

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nivek_c t1_j2eb01o wrote

even with my current landlord who is by far the best landlord anyone could ask for (completely absent but SUPER responsive when texted with an issue, only raised rent 1% per year), I still mail in checks via certified or priority mail and send her the tracking number ahead of time. Costs me like 2$ in postage, i can live with it.

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S_204 t1_j2e7fb2 wrote

So you pay by cash or check right?

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e7vt5 wrote

No, electronic xfer from a checking account.

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sold_snek t1_j2e8me5 wrote

He's saying you should start paying by check. If they're going to charge $50 for making it easier to pay, then use checks and make them have to drive to the bank or have to scan and submit each check.

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[deleted] t1_j2e96ft wrote

[removed]

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ThePretzul t1_j2e9ksi wrote

Most states require a fee-free payment option to be available by law, and you absolutely can mail a check to their business address to pay your rent. Send it via registered mail and retain the receipt, the company cannot claim that rent was unpaid or they didn’t receive it because you then have proof of payment that is valid in all 50 states.

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dclxvi616 t1_j2eavbx wrote

Certified mail w/ return receipt requested is so much cheaper and faster than registered mail and offers similar proof of mailing and delivery. It's a rent check not some kind of irreplaceable item.

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HotPoblano t1_j2e1p8n wrote

When card brands increase rates and offer rewards cards that cost the merchant even more money to accept.

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OutlyingPlasma t1_j2e1xfy wrote

Food vendors raise rates all the time but no one would pay a 3% food cost recovery fee when visiting a restaurant. Its the cost of doing business.

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Spiritual-Chameleon t1_j2e2gjf wrote

But many restaurants now ask for tips for takeout orders, which feels like the same thing. We're not paying our employees enough with the prices we've established, so pay more please.

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LurkBot9000 t1_j2e2xi8 wrote

Paying their employees should be included in the cost of doing business but theyve outsourced labor wages to the customers as a charitable donation line on the bill. Its pretty fucking sick IMO

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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2e4z5t wrote

I dunno, it helps filter out bad waitstaff pretty quickly. But I don’t think poor performance of a job should be paid the same as high performance, which I know is counter to Reddit culture.

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Spiritual-Chameleon t1_j2e5zd3 wrote

There are some studies that found that tipping isn't necessarily related to quality of service

Edit: interesting to see down votes. Here's an excerpt from academic research; "other studies have failed to find a significant relationship between tipping and service evaluations (Bodvarsson & Gibson, 1994; Crusco & Wetzel, 1984; Lynn, 1988; Lynn & Latane, 1984; May, 1978)"

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/72354/Lynn46_Tipping.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwib86qX76T8AhUpK0QIHSohC1UQFnoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw3nkAIqOaefKJ32GoQqU7a7

And from the Freakanomics podcast:

"Lynn’s research shows that tipping is an unfair way for workers to be paid, because personal characteristics like a server’s race, gender, and appearance factor too much into customers’ tipping decisions."

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-does-tipping-still-exist-ep-396/

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TacoNomad t1_j2e6b4z wrote

I bet it filters out good waitstaff faster than bad. Anyone who is decent but relying on customer attitudes to pay the bills will go find something that pays steady.

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chism74063 t1_j2e5ouo wrote

I noticed tip jars showing up in fast food restaurants at the end of the COVID restrictions. It is like they are saying "COVID didn't shut us down, so we deserve a tip."

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nyconx t1_j2e2srv wrote

Many of the local chain restaurants are switching to forcing customers pay this fee. You would think they would benefit more to not have to deal with handling cash to make up for this. I think they can start to get away with it because we are at the tipping point where people do not carry cash much anymore.

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TacoNomad t1_j2e655c wrote

Increase prices to cover the fee. Offer discounts on cash payments.

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PissOnYourParade t1_j2e368v wrote

Large ticket items like rent and (especially) condo/hoa fees you want 100% off the funds to flow through to the budget.

I encourage you to participate in your board. You'll get a sense of the ramifications of 3% haircut off the budget.

Commercial stores and such have higher profit margins (and batching deals with the cc processors) such that they pay less in fees and have more "room" to eat the cost as a way of getting you in the door.

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i_am_out_of_pie t1_j2e6cf9 wrote

Restaurants don’t itemize it as a food cost recovery fee — they just raise their prices sometimes to compensate. All costs of doing business are ultimately paid for by customers.

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imsoawesome11223344 t1_j2e2rns wrote

...are you under the impression that restaurants don't raise their prices when food costs increase?

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zeiandren t1_j2e3m0i wrote

Raise the PRICE not keep the price the same then confuse it with add on fees

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2eamm9 wrote

One reason to do it as an add on fee is if they believe the prices will come back down. Reprinting menus with different prices for what they believe will be temporary is an unnecessary hassle/expense.

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HotPoblano t1_j2e4drp wrote

I've seen images of some restaurants adding line items for "supply chain issues," etc. Plus, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I see why some merchants might do it, especially if they don't see a drop off in business.

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DiCatto t1_j2e5yus wrote

>Food vendors raise rates all the time but no one would pay a 3% food cost recovery fee when visiting a restaurant. Its the cost of doing business.

They just lower the portion sizes, get rid of expensive ingredients, increase prices, or all of the above.

Any cost will be passed down to the customer. Including the "cost of doing business". The problem is when the cost is not disclosed upfront. If I am buying a $12 burger, it's a $12 burger. Period.

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zuzununu t1_j2e3yw2 wrote

I bought a plane ticket earlier this month which the base cost for the ticket was $50

But there was an extra fee for using the overhead bins: bringing a carry-on is considered an extra.

I think it's so they get higher on Google flights when you sort by price

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TacoNomad t1_j2e6n3i wrote

Those are discount airlines that offer you a low fare. If you're traveling with no luggage, it's a good deal. If you fly other airlines, some of those fees are included. Often when you do the math on the cheap fare plus bags and carryon fees, you pay the same or more than booking with the other airlines. It's their business model.

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HoweHaTrick t1_j2ea1m6 wrote

People don't do the math and then complain when they are suckered.

It is human nature to assume all other aspects of price comparisons are equal, but this world is full of "gotchas ".

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ollydolly t1_j2e49s7 wrote

We implement our cc fee for customers on transactions over $3k. Up until that point, we consider it cost of doing business. We notify anyone trying to pay a large invoice with a cc that there will be a fee, and that if it's not acceptable, they are free to pay other ways. Nothing shittier than finishing a big job and realizing hundreds of dollars are being deducted from it for the cc processing fee.

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HoweHaTrick t1_j2ea9tg wrote

Yup. When I have a job done I'll just write a check if it costs more to charge.

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TacoNomad t1_j2e5tkt wrote

When they do this, they should offer free ways to pay. Like check or cash

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2eaxpj wrote

In many states if the goods or service is essential they are required to offer a free way to pay. Ironically the free way often costs the recipient more to process than the card processing fees would.

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dickie99 t1_j2e86y0 wrote

If a business doesn’t list it separately, it’s already being factored in to the price

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fargothsrevenge t1_j2e9op6 wrote

They always have done this. A smart business would just build it into the price so you don't notice.

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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2e4gys wrote

I think it’s fine to share costs of payment acceptance and I actually prefer it. But by sharing those costs you may make me realize that you’re not honest in your information OR you’re poorly researching your payment providers to have competitive vendors, which is indirectly costing me more money.

For example, vehicle registration can be done by cash or check with no additional fee (that level of detail can be difficult to compute for government agencies) but credit cards have the merchant service fee passed to the person making the payment.

Those who aren’t making the “cost of business” more expensive since they’re paying by cash/check get to also pay a smaller amount.

I’d like to get a % off when I use Apple Pay since last I read there’s a 2% processing fee vs the more common 3%+ for visa/Mastercard.

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2ea4at wrote

>Those who aren’t making the “cost of business” more expensive since they’re paying by cash/check get to also pay a smaller amount.

Except that the entity receiving payment has higher costs in processing and accounting for cash/check payments that they do on funds received electronically.

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mmomjian t1_j2ea4ob wrote

Interchange rates are set by the banks and card issuers. Apple takes a 0.15% cut of Apple Pay transactions, they are not any cheaper to run.

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OathOfFeanor t1_j2e5tba wrote

All costs of doing business are passed on to the customer, that's where the business gets their money from

You are actually arguing for less visibility because you just want them to increase the cost of the item so you don't know how much of it goes to the ripoff payment processor.

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