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Scumandvillany t1_jahfyn9 wrote

Is it verboten to talk about why the police can't solve more than 17% of shootings and 38% of murders? I know the (punisher/blue lives matter/suck a cops dick/krasner is the problem) crowd literally thinks that police solve shootings but krasner won't charge them, and while that may be true in some niche cases(probably because lack of evidence), the root cause here is the police themselves are incompetent. Why won't the most ostensibly progressive candidates even talk about that?

To me it's a HUGE part of the puzzle, and actually catching shooters will reduce violence, because once you've shot people, you're highly likely to do it again.

Hence the need for MANDATORY 4K


[deleted] t1_jahlmdk wrote



xphizio t1_jai9v9l wrote

Careful, I've presented this evidence before in this sub and was promptly ignored or downvoted. Every time I hear "poLicE dOnT dO tHeIR joBs" I never see this notion backed by any evidence whatsoever but rather the contrary.


palerthanrice t1_jajjagt wrote

This is pretty damning, especially considering how easy these illegal gun possession cases are.

Most of them are just felons with any type of gun, legal or not. There's no detective work or anything required.


Scumandvillany t1_jahnq2b wrote

I mean, this is another common refrain from the blue lives matter crowd. Sure OK, fine so convictions for illegal gun possession are down and arrests are up. are all those arrests legitimate ?was there enough evidence to support those arrests? We don't exactly know do we? And even given if every one of those arrests should have been a conviction-fine, Krasner's office is incompetent. This is not in question by me-what is in question is the police's incompetency with regard to solving violent crime, including murders and shootings most importantly. So maybe instead of deflecting with data on gun arrests, focus on why and how the police should be solving more violent crimes.


nnn62 t1_jahrfy2 wrote

Stating data on gun arrests isn’t a deflection. I’d imagine there is some correlation between convictions for illegal gun possession charges and homicide rate. Admittedly, this is speculation on my part but I feel it’s just a logical explanation. I’m open to data proving I’m wrong. Anyways, In the instance what I said is accurate, a higher conviction rate would lead police to concentrate more resources to investigate less violent crime and hopefully improve upon arrests percentages.


[deleted] t1_jai4clm wrote



Scumandvillany t1_jai613a wrote

The distinction is it is harder to prove, and the DA is requiring more evidence to go to trial on, a case that involves "constructive possession". A gun must be found on a person, or else possession is "constructive", and that has kinda been my issue with Krasner regarding these charges. It def seems he is less willing to try to prosecute a constructive possession case vs otherwise, and I think that's where the problem is.


Scumandvillany t1_jahirie wrote

My copypasta because people are DMing me "what is mandatory 4K"

It stems from the idea that objectivity in law enforcement is important these days. With the police being proven to be problematic in enforcement, from stop and frisk, to vehicle stops, the point is to move to an objective way to get where we want, which is safer streets, better traffic enforcement, and actually catching murderers and violent people.

The city should put up a network of a few thousand cameras. Minimum. The police already have 500 or so, and those should all be upgraded to MANDATORY 4K, while also adding to the network. This would enable real time tracking of suspects and much better intelligence for the cops to solve murders. Think about it, a few thousand shooters are simply walking about, free to roam. Murderers some, hyper violent all. Give the tools to prosecute more effectively, and redirect police to crime solving and simple patrol and responding to 911 calls by expanding the detective unit.

Civil liberties can be preserved by having a MANDATORY obligation to delete any footage not involved in a crime after a set period, like three weeks or so. Have a civil commission in charge of the release and use of the footage, with regular citizens on the board. Only be able to use the footage in specific crimes-violent ones.

At 10 thou a camera(and that's a lot), 20 million dollars rolls out two thousand cameras, all super high def for zooming etc. add in 5 million a year for enterprise cloud storage(leveraged by the bully pulpit and the city's franchise powers), and viola. we spent 150 million in the last budget for violence prevention, which indeterminate results.

Once you start actually locking murderers and shooters up em masse, the violent crimes will go down. It's not a huge swath of people who commit such crimes, it's a few thousands out of 1.6 million. Eventually you lock all the degenerates up and others will get the idea to not fuck around.

I'm not saying this idea is Christ come again, but it's a very simple idea and largely irrefutable. The fact is we are entering a new era of policing and we must find new ways to solve violent crime and enforce the law.

At the same time we can do violence prevention, jobs programs and jail reforms to help ex cons gain a true foothold after they leave a long sentence, while also reducing the amount of people going in for petty drug crimes etc. of course we need to look at the economic reasons as well, and focus on bettering our educational systems and creating opportunities for people to succeed at the same time as MANDATORY 4K. We also need to address blight, clean and green spaces, clean all streets of trash and debris, be very quick about illegal dumping, and help low income people repair their houses and get their titles sorted out. But MANDATORY 4K is about now.

It's just something I've been floating around here for awhile now. I refine it from time to time. And I agree with you about the systemic issues, and think those things I mentioned above are part of the solution generationally, but I disagree that solving 90% of violent crimes won't drastically reduce the incidence of it. I think people are a bit smarter than we give them credit for, and when people who may be prone to this stuff, on the borderline, they might start thinking twice if the certainty of them getting caught and doing 20 years is might higher. They might choose a different path. And in any case I think there's not an endless well of shooters and hyper violent people on street beef shit. Eventually it will wane.


apathetic_panda t1_jahpn2k wrote

Or they could figure out how to open a Microsoft browser and do the following:

  1. Click on map
  2. Open traffic camera 📷 😑

We don't need to get into whether their forensic "experts" try to reconstruct partial fingerprints or use >60 y/o color tests when they try to secure convictions -the outcomes speak for themselves

I'm aware OP's statement is likely in reference to local roadways as opposed to state which have SD resolution? I dunno ask 🤷 one of the TV people, but not wpvi...

My point is that even given better tools 🔧 🙃 😅, the institution insists on more compensation for being both inept & abusive. FOH!


ragnaROCKER t1_jan3y0d wrote

It seems a good idea, but I am VERY hesitant to give that kind of power to a group that repeatedly shows they take advantage of the power they have NOW.


pasnow t1_jahmu9s wrote

>crowd literally thinks that police solve shootings but krasner won't charge them, and while that may be true in some niche cases(probably because lack of evidence)

Funny, I guess I'm a 'niche' case. Look how many police resources got involved to capture the two who had me at gunpoint. (It was all on video & submitted for evidence). Krasners office let them walk after preliminary trial.


Scumandvillany t1_jahok1d wrote

Is krasners office botched cases? Yes. Have the police even arrested or brought cases to the DA for more than 20% of carjackings? No.

Again, two things can be true. Krasner is not that good at his job, his ideas are half baked, and he's failed to retain lawyers and improve on consistency and victims rights, all of that. But that's one half of the problem, and I argue that the bigger problem is the police's sheer ineptitude and inability to solve the vast majority of violent crimes.


ragnaROCKER t1_jajpfru wrote

what was the reason they told you?


pasnow t1_jamebcg wrote

LOE. Lack of evidence. The surveillance video of it & basically showing their faces, I was told, likely wouldn't get submitted for a 'preliminary' hearing. No clothes were brought/shown they were wearing the night of, the gun was reported to have been recovered (i think in the news article), wasn't brought or fingerprints etc.

I got to face the one (other was 17 & juvey court), which helped bring closure. His Mom & family (sisters?) were there, so it brought closure to do it & speak. I wasn't angry or hateful, some old 1950s redneck down south saying hang em or anything. Honestly, I knew going in they'd either make an example out of em, and throw the book at them to prove they're 'tough on crime' (since they caught them), or it'd just get lost in the machine.

ADA was in touch with me alot (looking back its probably done more in a grief couselor role), but the night before I got a call at 8:30 from a Texas phone number, and the guy had a major Texas accent, whoa.. I thought, did they just fly in some big time lawyer for this?! He asked me a few basic questions about the night, and whats gonna happen in the courtroom (roll call, cattle call of cases etc). Then, once I got there, I just knew I was one of about 30 other cases in that courtroom alone, just a cog in the machine.


ragnaROCKER t1_jan0g44 wrote

That really sucks, my condolences. Serious question though, would the prints and clothes thing fall under the police or is that a da thing?


pasnow t1_jan2bhx wrote

That's a good question. Probably sorta a two way street. I would guess DAO could reach out to the PPD to get it in their posession. Probably (both) are overworked. ADA told me he has 100 carjacking cases going on at any given time, but he treated me well & returned my calls, kept me posted on things.

TBH, looking back I found him more of a grief counselor role, bracing me for a soft landing in stupidity, that's they'd let these two walk. By the end I realized how jaded I was to it all, I just made my own peace with it, hope those 2 fix themselves & get jobs. THat's what pisses me off tbh, there's jobs out there. And they pay $12-$15 bucks an hour easy. When I was 19-20 I worked for $4 bucks an hour, its crazy. Granted I went to college and mostly summer stuff, but again, work at Shop Rite stocking shelves of a year or two, they'll get paid.

Anyway, I'll just say, someone else posted somewhere there's a reason alot of these criminals have lengthy rap sheets. In the years of Lyn Abraham myb these 2 would've done 3 years time, I dunno. I consider myself pretty liberal but jeez give them 3-6 months at least. (The 20yo did about 30 days in holding custody I'd guess, probably close enough to real prison where he may have been scared straight so to speak. Getting a glimpse of 'real prison' (CFCF) up in the northeast.


ragnaROCKER t1_jan2yus wrote

If it makes you feel any better, holding jail is often much worse than real prison.

Sorry you had to go through that, something similar happened when my house was robbed.


ragnaROCKER t1_jan33vf wrote

Thank you for sharing your story.


pasnow t1_jan4hv5 wrote

Thanks, I appreciate it. I cannot tell you how much you think 'it ends now' when someones got a gun pointed to your chest. It also is infuriating ppl thinking Krasners DAO is this well run, only prosecute surefire criminals, yet let the innocent ones or difficult to prove ones go.

Just sitting there, hearing the cases before me. One cop clearly witness a pretty large ($300?) heroin deal in a vacant land next to a bodega type place. Defense asked 'Did you use surveillance video' cop said no we don't use that on a daily basis. Defense asked 'Did you use your cell phone' Cop said he doesn't use his personal phone for work. Things like that, you could tell the cops knew the deal. One was a car theft, undercover cop caught him, guy had numerous priors over just the last 3 or 4 years.


ragnaROCKER t1_janqc8h wrote

true, but we don't know the cops history. could be on the "no trust" list.

i feel yoiu about the "it ends now" thing. it is terrifying.


pasnow t1_jaoammb wrote

>could be on the "no trust" list.

It doesn't go that deep. The questioning lasts about 3-5 minutes and the defense attorney seems like they hadn't even looked at the case prior to the day. They'd speak with the accused for a minute or two before the judge starts.

Honestly, seems like the defense just churns thru them, then clocks out at the end of the shift. Almost like an assembly line working cases. There's no Law & Order and such to it, just a bunch of paperwork on their desk (ie. shuffling papers, 'Ok, which case is next? Hmmm, let's see what its about') Then just shouts out far fetched theories and possibilities. It was deflating.


BigShawn424 t1_jahqfrc wrote

It’s almost impossible to solve a case when witnesses wont talk to police.


Scumandvillany t1_jahqtls wrote


Don't need an eyeball witness when you've got 8 million pixels


pasnow t1_jai8708 wrote

Actually, my case had both. And didn't even go to trial, let alone prosecuted.... so there's that.


CT_Real t1_jal37ze wrote

I think we're gonna need some more details as you are making it seem like he said "I'm Larry, I like crime, I don't care about the evidence".


SonnyBlackandRed t1_jalaxz3 wrote

How do you figure people out wearing masks and only seeing their eyes? Legitimate question, not trying to be a dick.


Scumandvillany t1_jam0tmz wrote

You track their movements using the cameras


SonnyBlackandRed t1_jam2pny wrote

I guess so, eventually, maybe, they take the mask off where you can see their face.


Scumandvillany t1_jam9k2w wrote

You have movement tracked, you find where they went. To further the investigation, you subpoena cell tower records using the evidence from the cameras to back the request. You could also use geofence warrants and narrow down the suspect list. There are ways.


pasnow t1_jahmbmc wrote

Just last night, chased armed bandits from S Phila to Germantown & caught them. No credit given tho I'm sure. :/


Scumandvillany t1_jahnxe6 wrote

Sure, a broken clock is right twice a day. But the system remains largely incompetent and unable to produce arrests and cases for the vast majority of shootings and murders. Am I supposed to look at this and go thank a cop? Lol


pasnow t1_jahq9qp wrote

Well you could question why they were not charged and case dismissed?


Seems pretty clear cut. Caught. Video evidence. Gun recovered. Sitting in courtroom awaiting sentencing.


Scumandvillany t1_jahql9k wrote



pasnow t1_jahsjon wrote

Just last week wasn't one of those teens who killed an old man with a orange cone released on bail??


C'mon, I've now given 3 instances of you being wrong off the top of my head. Last nights heroic chase down, me having a fuckin gun to my face, and the teen out on bond.


DAO is inept.


CT_Real t1_jal5mx8 wrote

I don't understand what you are saying?

You are upset they were able to post bond?


LFKhael t1_jahtpbt wrote

§ 5701.  Right to bail.

All prisoners shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, unless:

(1)  for capital offenses or for offenses for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment; or

(2)  no condition or combination of conditions other than imprisonment will reasonably assure the safety of any person and the community when the proof is evident or presumption great.

(Aug. 27, 2009, P.L.376, No.39, eff. imd.)


Ragoz t1_jai6ofd wrote

> Well you could question why they were not charged and case dismissed?

Nobody questions it because it happened 3 am this morning. What the actual fuck are you typing.


pasnow t1_jai7zdn wrote

I was referring to my further above post, which got categorized as a very 'niche' case according to the ppl on this board:

Funny, I guess I'm a 'niche' case. Look how many police resources got involved to capture the two who had me at gunpoint. (It was all on video & submitted for evidence). Krasners office let them walk after preliminary trial.


Ragoz t1_jaiajqk wrote

I'd be interested in the court case number so I can search the publicly available Philadelphia Municipal Court dockets given you know they walked. You know, to verify your claim of what happened.


pasnow t1_jaibwht wrote

lol, when you accuse someone of "lying", you already lost the argument. I have it at home. I think I went back a few weeks later & its all offline, since, it was dismissed. I may be wrong about that, I did dl a pdf of all the charges to them. (about a dozen each)


Ragoz t1_jaidp5d wrote

> lol, when you accuse someone of "lying", you already lost the argument.

Tries to hold back his snickering.

It's all right here if it exists:


pasnow t1_jamkjvp wrote

I'm well aware, as I said, once it was 'dismissed', it seemed to disappear off those sites a few weeks later.

Here's a link to both the video of it happening (I drive a stick, which they couldn't drive, they later jacked the uber blocks away in the nbc10 article), the docket # sheet with all the charges (page 3) and showing dismissed in Page 4. I took the suspect name off the documents out of courtesy. You can see the docket # if you wanna do your own research.


pasnow t1_jaicdlh wrote

btw, ADA told me he's got about 100 of these ongoing at any given time. On a rotating basis.


ragnaROCKER t1_jajqhjc wrote

so it could be a resource issue instead of a DA problem?


MonsterNog t1_jahle61 wrote

Why ain’t you runnin


theAmericanStranger t1_jahqf5z wrote

He has my vote! I mean, lower/eliminate the wage tax while you're at it


MonsterNog t1_jahu505 wrote

Wage tax should only apply to top 10% of earners


theAmericanStranger t1_jai31pj wrote

If you have a wage tax, why not tax the really rich who come here to retire and live off their retirement/capital ? As usual, salary earners bear the brunt of taxes.


flamehead2k1 t1_jaimh4r wrote

>If you have a wage tax, why not tax the really rich who come here to retire and live off their retirement/capital ?

There is already a tax on investment earnings.

Philly isn't a huge retirement destination and likely wouldn't be if taxes on this type of income went up significantly.

Easy enough for people to live in the suburbs and come in for dining and entertainment. Especially towns along PATCO or RR


theAmericanStranger t1_jaipttq wrote

>Philly isn't a huge retirement destination

I'm older than most people here, so I know quite a few New Yorkers who come for the retirement, taking advantage of much cheaper real estate and living in general . From my small sample size this is recent trend.


But I think you're wrong - there is no Philly capital gain tax afaik, although be happy to be corrected.


flamehead2k1 t1_jaj4s9o wrote

There is tax on interest, dividends and some short term gains. Long term gains aren't taxed but that can easily be included.


ragnaROCKER t1_jajpx8m wrote

instead of a tax on the top earners, there should be a discount/bonus program for people that make under a certain threshold. plus you could make it exclusive for people that live within the city so people in the burbs would still "contribute".


[deleted] t1_jahhcdf wrote



Scumandvillany t1_jahimdy wrote

When you follow that up with a blue underwear guy, and ask what % of shootings do police ask for charges/arrests in, you're met with but "muh respect and krasner sucks". It's delusional. Two things can be true: the police are incompetent and lazy, while krasner and his office make big mistakes and their policies are misguided.


ell0bo t1_jahjvw5 wrote

Lol. Yes. The truth is, everything can suck. Doesn't need to be one side or the other.


brk1 t1_jajzm6g wrote

> the root cause here is the police

I thought it was the people doing the murdering


piddling_around t1_jahmlm8 wrote

What are the best groups that a local resident like me, who isn't a career expert on gun violence, might look to endorse a particular candidate or specific policy approach with evidence backed policies. Essentially, who are the experts who will seriously consider these candidate's and their answers that we can look to?


internet_friends t1_jahuk00 wrote

This doesn't directly answer your question, but I've found the most information about the candidates and their stances on issues like gun control (and nuanced takes on those stances) on the Philadelphia Citizen.


felis_scipio t1_jaif2hf wrote

Good question but when it comes to gun violence info / stars you’re often stuck between groups who are rabidly anti-gun and groups who are rabidly pro-gun putting out numbers that are all over the place in how they define things and I say that as someone who is very pro 2A and owns an ample collection.

One of the best local sources I’ve found was the Radio Times show on NPR. It’s ended but I’d strongly recommend looking back in their catalog and listening to their episodes on gun violence. I was always impressed with the range of guests they’d bring on from former police to kids on the street who were living in the middle of it. They always struck me as trying to foster a legitimate discussion and not ramrod down some pre-convinced opinion.

Another thing to keep in mind because when election time comes local politicians love to point at Harrisburg and say we can’t do anything because they don’t let us when in reality there’s been no change to PA gun laws since the 90s and in fact PA is stricter than many states because the private sale of handguns from one person to another legally requires a federal background check.

So if you look back to the low murder stats during the Nutter administration and ask what was the difference, the answer is not that the laws have been loosened up making it easier to legally buy a gun. Also the upward trend during Kenny’s term started before Covid hit, since that guys loves blaming Covid for damn near everything.


jbphilly t1_jaj94jt wrote

>Also the upward trend during Kenny’s term started before Covid hit,

Also the upward trend began before Kenney's term (and, notably, before Krasner's). FWIW


Minqua t1_jains7h wrote

The difference is the people that are living in Philly have gotten worse. The guns arent bad, the petusing them are. There seems to be a real lack of any value or respect on life. Every shooting you hear the same we need to stop the violence talk but nothing changes.

Violent criminals should never get out of jail but that ship has sailed in Philly. Its every’s fault but the criminals or some nonsense like that


Gruntguy55 t1_jaivcva wrote

They let the criminals out then are shocked when they commit crimes. These people arnt using legal guns most of the time anyway. Let the criminals out then disarm the law abiding citizens seems to be the MO of Philly politicians. Absolutely baffling how backwards they have things.


PomegranateOk8534 t1_jahwyu5 wrote

If you fight a gun or drug case for longer than 8 months they’ll eventually drop the charges


YoCuzBo t1_jaj3np6 wrote

I think we should set low standards to be shot and then have a lottery to see who gets shot.