QuidProJoe2020 t1_je748hv wrote on March 29, 2023 at 9:56 PM

Yea, I quite frankly think we should have property and wage tax flipped. Meaning our property tax should be higher comparatively and our wage tax shouldn't be the highest in the country. This is for the same reason you point out: we need to bring money into the city.

It's way more important to get 6 fig earning ppl into Philly vs helping a family afford a 700k house instead of 550k due to low property taxes. The low property taxes + the abatement program certainly exert upward pressure on house prices, which ultimately will impact rents as well.

Solid point my dude.

rovinchick t1_je7zciy wrote on March 30, 2023 at 1:48 AM

A large percentage of the wage tax is paid by non-residents, so it doesn't make any sense for the city to flip them for reason alone. Even pro athletes and performers who come to Philly for a game or a show have to cough up their share of wage tax for the salary they collect while here, even if just for a day.

QuidProJoe2020 t1_jeabg58 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 3:50 PM

Yes, but I bet a huge majority if not a super majority of those commuters make 6 figs+, which would put them In the highest wage tax bracket anyway. This is especially true for sports athletes.

A progressive wage tax ensures someone who makes 30k has enough to feed their family in West Philly, while not making the city lose money on the 500k law partner who commutes in from the burbs or mainline.

Every dollar a 30k earner pays in taxes is a lot more painful than a dollar paid by someone who makes 500k, this is the entire point behind a progressive system.

In terms of property taxes, idk if you have seen house prices recently but they have ballooned in 20 years. I have seen houses that were worth 25k when I was a kid now go for 150k with no upgrades. Property used to be dirt fucking cheap in this city, so high property taxes wouldn't have generated much. Now, you have 500k homes in neighborhoods you didnt use to be able to visit 15 years ago, I'm looking at you point breeze.

A switch now after huge inflation and increases in property value, whereas wages have not changed nearly as much (a big law lawyer used to start at 160k 15 years ago, now it's 185k; service workers have went from 7.25 to just hitting 15 after about 15 years) seems like it would be better to grow tax recipes via property taxes now.

rovinchick t1_jeagunj wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:25 PM

It's a good way to get that law partner to only commute in on court days and the 76ers to build their arena in Camden, too.

QuidProJoe2020 t1_jeai0ie wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:33 PM

The Law partners income gets taxed at philadelphia wage tax based on where his employer is located in the city of philadelphia. He could work from home for the rest of eternity, but as long as his employer is located at 1700 market street, he's paying his wage tax.

Also, why the hell would the 76ers move their stadium out of the city they play for due to wage taxes? 76ers org doesn't give a fuck what it's workers pay in wage tax, it cares about putting butts in the seats and getting good players. Players care about wage tax, but income tax in PA is capped at 3.07%, those same ballers will be paying the highest income bracket in NJ which is 10%. Moving stadium to NJ makes no sense based on what you are bringing up as a player will spend substantially more in taxes paying 10.75% in NJ income tax over PA state income tax of 3 and phily wage at 3.79%. Not to mention, Camden has another 1% wage income, so in total 76 players would be paying almost double in tax to play there.

Now, if the city of Camden is going to give crazy tax credits to 76ers org, that's a different thing altogether, but has nothing to do with wage tax.

rovinchick t1_jeaj675 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:40 PM

I mean the law partners will move their firm outside the city. Even if they stay, if they have a permanent telework agreement in place where the employer specifies the days the employee is directed to work from home, they do not have to pay wage tax on earnings for those days.

QuidProJoe2020 t1_jeaki1e wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:48 PM

Bro Morgan Lewis, strategy Ronan, Ballard Sparh, etc are not moving due to wage tax. Big law firms need an office in a big city, it's literally a sign that they are a big law firm and taxes be damned.

Also, if the employer gives you the option to come in, which all big law firms do as they actually want people to come in, you are subject to wage tax.

Also, I'm not sure why this is relevant. Where did I say let's make the wage tax higher? Why are we discussing workers in Philly taking different actions than they can now if the wage tax is not increasing? All I'm literally saying is that for people who make smaller incomes, they should have a lower tax rate, not that the high earners should pay more than they already do.

Heck, I have been saying that we should invert the property and wage taxes in place. I want higher property taxes and lower wage taxes in general. Housing has appreciated way quicker than wages have. Again, homes have gone up 6x in value in just 15 years. Wages haven't even doubled let alone triple. Thus, the portion that can be tax via property tax is much bigger than it was 15 years ago. As such, it seems wise to tap that for revenue, where as lowering wage tax to invite MORE BUSINESSES into the city.

I am in agreement, our wage tax is too high. I just have no clue why in response to me saying 30k earners should pay less, you think big law partners will force telework contracts from big law firms that are super old fashion and conservative when it comes to what they expect from a work force.

rovinchick t1_jeakvf5 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:51 PM

Not a Bro, but ok. Many business are already providing very detailed telework agreements that allow their employees to avoid paying wage tax on all of their income. Just saying it's a thing and if the rate did increase, I'm certain you would see more of these arrangements.

QuidProJoe2020 t1_jeal7cj wrote on March 30, 2023 at 4:53 PM

Ok, I am a lawyer and know a lot of lawyers in big law. They all have option to work from home, and are still subject to Philly income tax.

Again, this is a moot point, no one is saying increase Philly wage tax. I'm just saying 30k earners could use some help on their tax burden, and this study shows they carry the biggest burden comparative to income out of any quintile, which makes no fucking sense.

Edit: also, everyone is a bro, it's a term that can be a greeting of endearment and is stupid to gender anything like that.

embarrassmyself t1_je7qp43 wrote on March 30, 2023 at 12:42 AM

Doesn’t it already do that though? It’s so high across the board, of course high earners will try to go around it somehow

The Local Tax Burden on Philadelphia Households: Homeowners generally pay less

Marko_Ramius1 t1_je6xt28 wrote on March 29, 2023 at 9:12 PM