NonIdentifiableUser t1_iybmc8i wrote
Honest question - does his office do this for non-police? That is, ask for reconsideration of what they think are light sentences?
delcocait t1_iycd4b5 wrote
Honest question, are non police getting as little as 11.5 months for voluntary manslaughter?! Have you seen comparable sentences for non police? Cause that seems crazy. Like maybe we have bigger problems than Krasner if that’s the case.
oliver_babish t1_iyd85gm wrote
Let's take a look. (2019)
A Philadelphia judge on Friday sentenced a former Center City real estate agent to 3½ to seven years in state prison in the fatal shooting of her boyfriend in her Fishtown apartment building two years ago.
Common Pleas Court Judge J. Scott O’Keefe had convicted Jeanette Wakefield, 39, of voluntary manslaughter and possession of an instrument of crime after a nonjury trial in July. He added two years of probation and ordered her to get counseling.
Another (2018), but with guilty pleas:
Saying that three Philadelphia women had "unleashed a savage act" on a homeless man when they brutally beat him outside an Olney gas station three years ago, leading to his death seven months later, a judge on Friday sentenced the women to prison terms of more than a decade.
During a nearly three-hour hearing, Common Pleas Court Judge Sandy Byrd said the beating death of Robert Barnes, 51, which was captured on surveillance video, "is one in which we all witnessed the very worst attributes of humanity."
The three women — Aleathea Gillard, 37; Kaisha Duggins, 27; and Duggins' sister, Shareena Joachim, 26 — pleaded guilty Jan. 29 to charges of voluntary manslaughter, conspiracy, and possession of an instrument of crime in Barnes' death.
Byrd sentenced Gillard and Duggins to the maximum term of 22½ to 45 years in state prison. He sentenced Joachim to 12½ to 25 years.
Next link (2009), again after guilty pleas:
Three men who pleaded guilty to beating a Phillies fan to death outside Citizens Bank Park in 2009 have been sentenced. The altercation followed spilled drinks in a crowded bar, and there were running alcohol-fueled brawls that ended in the parking lot.
After a mistrial was declared in September, the following month, all of the defendants pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter. ..
Each of the defendants received different sentences, based on culpability. Judge Shelley Robins New sentenced Francis Kirchner to 9-18 years, for meting out what could have been the fatal kick to the victim's head. Charles Bowers received 5-10 and James Groves got 2-4 years.
Paparddeli t1_iycovm1 wrote
Honest question, how many voluntary manslaughter sentences are the average reddit users even aware of? People have no idea about this stuff, including probably you.
delcocait t1_iycs3ha wrote
This was a legitimate question. Of course I don’t know how long a typical sentence for voluntary manslaughter is, that’s the point. It seems absurdly low.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iyd1j8j wrote
Paparddeli t1_iydl9h2 wrote
Thank you - that exactly answers the question. So 1 out of 13 in 2019 were below the mitigated range, like this sentence. I would imagine most cases nationally where a cop is involved they would be far below the standard recommended sentence, assuming the state has guidelines.
Edit: also, Kim Potter the Minnesota cop who accidentally pulled a gun instead of a taser and was convicted of manslaughter got a very similar sentence to this one.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iydtryk wrote
One limitation of the data is that it doesn't tell you the degree of the departure (i.e., 10% below the mitigated range vs. 80% below).
This deviation is pretty substantial, but it's important to realize that if the officer received a longer sentence that he would have had to go to a state facility instead of the Philadelphia jail. It's pretty common for judges to round down to 11.5-23 months to avoid sending someone upstate, which would be even more dangerous for a police officer.
Paparddeli t1_iye0o29 wrote
Yes, that's definitely a key part of this sentence. Most people wouldn't realize that he got under 2 years so he could serve it in the county.
libananahammock t1_iydb9t0 wrote
Everyone is posting links and sources claiming otherwise and yet here you are with nothing but playground taunts lol
Paparddeli t1_iydn3zx wrote
Well look, I know that sentences below the guidelines aren't that rare. And I can surmise that that's especially true when there's a good reason for it (like the defendant having a really tough job where they are expected to maybe have to pull their gun and maybe shoot someone). The links posted elsewhere in this thread back that up.
TheOGinBC t1_iybr4m8 wrote
I haven’t seen it before
boytoy421 t1_iyc46l3 wrote
You think a lot of black guys are getting 11 months for manslaughter in the first place?
Not to mention the aggravating factor that the murderer in question was law enforcement and should thus be held to a higher standard
(Edit: misspoke)
Paparddeli t1_iycp5s5 wrote
He was convicted of voluntary manslaughter not felony (2nd degree) murder. Voluntary manslaughter has significantly lesser penalties - the max he could have gotten was 10 to 20 whereas it would be life for felony murder, but since he had no prior record and he was a cop doing his job (yes he screwed up but any judge would have sympathy for a cop in this position) it was guaranteed to be a lot less.
delcocait t1_iycvwyu wrote
Voluntary manslaughter is a first degree felony in Pennsylvania.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.025..HTM
Paparddeli t1_iycwcti wrote
Right, but it's not felony murder. That was my point.
delcocait t1_iycx3df wrote
Your wording was unclear, it seemed to imply this was not a felony. I think colloquially we would all refer to voluntary manslaughter as a murder. And it was certainly a felony.
Paparddeli t1_iyd5nu5 wrote
Voluntary manslaughter is considered homicide but not murder under the legal definition. I realize the confusion in my earlier post now, my wording wasn't wrong but I didn't explain it clearly enough. Homicide includes manslaughter and murder (murder being the more serious crime). Murder is divided into three degrees. First is the most serious kind of intentional killing. Second degree is murder during the commission of a felony, and also requires a life sentence like first degree. Third degree is less serious and then below these you have voluntary and involuntary manslaughter that are lesser offenses.
The degrees of felonies is a separate thing from the degrees of murder. The relevance of voluntary manslaughter being a first degree felony is that the max sentence is 20 years max and 10 year minimum. The three kinds of murder offenses aren't included in the felony grading, they have their own maximum sentences.
degreelesspotatohead t1_iyd3sd0 wrote
The issue is that "felony murder" is a specific thing, not just a homicide that is a felony. If someone dies during the commission of (certain) felonies, those responsible for the felony are guilty of murder regardless of whether they intended the death. For example, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of a heart attack, you may be charged with felony murder. In PA, felony murder carries a mandatory life sentence.
JWHISKY707 t1_iycuxqe wrote
Dont think it was felony murder.
Franklinia_Alatamaha t1_iycvlr0 wrote
Correct, it was not. A.) Felony Murder is Murder in the 2nd Degree in PA and is punishable *only* by a determinant life sentence (in prison until you are dead, no exception), B.) He was not convicted of Murder in the 2nd Degree or any type of Murder charge, C.) He was convicted of Voluntary Manslaughter.
[deleted] t1_iycwfzg wrote
[deleted]
PhillyPanda t1_iyd15ve wrote
>Not to mention the aggravating factor that the murderer in question was law enforcement
Where are you getting that’s an aggravating factor in PA?
LoudGroans t1_iydduqu wrote
Yes. I personally know someone who was jammed up on a felony charge. The case went on for so long that when the judge finally threw it out against the recommendation of the DA, the DA's office fought tooth and nail to go over the judge's head and re-file the charges. The guy left the court room all excited that it was over and his lawyer literally stopped him and said he's safe for now, but that it's pretty common for the DA's office to re-file charges like these. Couldn't believe it when I heard it.
carp_boy t1_iyefeye wrote
Some time ago I appeared in front of a DJ on a criminal matter. My lawyer advised me that even if we prevailed in this preliminary hearing, the police could refile in some other district court.
Everything worked out.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iycuhgh wrote
They do, but it's a tough sell on appeal.
boundfortrees t1_iye83ko wrote
He did start a Conviction Integrity Unit that has freed several innocent people.
FordMaverickFan t1_iyc85a5 wrote
Really curious to see data around this as well.
[deleted] t1_iydnxon wrote
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