Comments
delcodick t1_iyblyz0 wrote
Your public admission to being wrong is exceptionally refreshing to see on Reddit. Well done
NonIdentifiableUser t1_iybmc8i wrote
Honest question - does his office do this for non-police? That is, ask for reconsideration of what they think are light sentences?
TheOGinBC t1_iybr4m8 wrote
I haven’t seen it before
boytoy421 t1_iyc46l3 wrote
You think a lot of black guys are getting 11 months for manslaughter in the first place?
Not to mention the aggravating factor that the murderer in question was law enforcement and should thus be held to a higher standard
(Edit: misspoke)
FordMaverickFan t1_iyc85a5 wrote
Really curious to see data around this as well.
delcocait t1_iycd4b5 wrote
Honest question, are non police getting as little as 11.5 months for voluntary manslaughter?! Have you seen comparable sentences for non police? Cause that seems crazy. Like maybe we have bigger problems than Krasner if that’s the case.
[deleted] t1_iycf1j5 wrote
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collectallfive t1_iycfmm7 wrote
This article is so weird. It doesn't actually mention anything about the murder, just that someone was killed after a high speed chase. Why was Ruch chasing him? What did he do that warranted Ruch shooting him? Baffling reporting.
SBRH33 t1_iycg3fk wrote
A jury handed down the sentence.
The facts and the evidence bore out the conclusion.
Krasner needs to leave this alone.
He wants to cry about his impeachment "oh its disenfranchising the voters of philly" but he'll go and try and nullify a verdict he didn't like.
The irony is fucking epic with this guy.
oliver_babish t1_iyck0h5 wrote
A former Philadelphia police officer was sentenced Thursday to 11½ to 23 months in prison for the 2017 fatal shooting of Dennis Plowden Jr., a conviction prosecutors called the first for an on-duty killing in recent city history.
The penalty fell years below the minimum state sentencing guidelines for the voluntary-manslaughter conviction that a jury handed Eric Ruch in September, leading Plowden’s family members and criminal justice reform advocates to say he got a sweetheart deal. District Attorney Larry Krasner’s office said convictions on identical charges have yielded 5½-to-11-year sentences on average since he took office in 2018.
In sentencing Ruch, Common Pleas Court Judge Barbara McDermott said that he had demonstrated good behavior since he was charged two years ago and she believed a longer sentence would not offer him rehabilitation.
”Nothing he is going to do in prison is going to make him a better person,” McDermott said to a courtroom packed with family, friends, and colleagues of Ruch and Plowden.
SBRH33 t1_iyclhum wrote
the jury convicted on the evidence produced to them
That is fucking hilarious. Krasners entire platform is based on "prison reduction" and "sensible sentencing" and "criminal justice reformation"
But but but but but....
The Judge - a democrat at that, handed down the sentence.
Next will come the race baiting and cries of white privilege bullshit.
Perhaps if Larry's office was filled with qualified prosecutors who knew what the fuck they were doing, then maybe it might have turned out different for team progressive.
Barbara McDermott
uptown_gargoyle t1_iyco4ch wrote
>Ruch was convicted of 11.5 to 23 months behind bars for the deadly shooting.
Normally people are convicted of crimes and then sentenced to prison terms. I've never heard of somebody being convicted of a prison term.
What the fuck is going on with local news?
Paparddeli t1_iycovm1 wrote
Honest question, how many voluntary manslaughter sentences are the average reddit users even aware of? People have no idea about this stuff, including probably you.
Paparddeli t1_iycp5s5 wrote
He was convicted of voluntary manslaughter not felony (2nd degree) murder. Voluntary manslaughter has significantly lesser penalties - the max he could have gotten was 10 to 20 whereas it would be life for felony murder, but since he had no prior record and he was a cop doing his job (yes he screwed up but any judge would have sympathy for a cop in this position) it was guaranteed to be a lot less.
philadelphia-ModTeam t1_iycp88o wrote
Rule 7: Your submission was removed for violating the subreddit’s rules against hate speech, bigotry, sexism, and racism.
[deleted] t1_iycpqwm wrote
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collectallfive t1_iycr7yx wrote
Tbh I was being a little disingenuous because I know what's happening, and has been happening for decades: police/crime reporters employ passive voice to diminish police culpability for their actions so they have sympathetic contacts within the force in order to break news earlier than their competitors.
We saw this in Virginia last week when a sheriff's deputy catfished some teen and killed her whole family and the news outlet referred to him as an "ex-police worker" and then an "ex-trooper" despite having only acquired the "ex-" distinction after he was killed in a shootout with police.
ElenorWoods t1_iycrkzx wrote
Lol he won’t prosecute anyone else… but this guy, he wants to double prosecute.
I understand I am making up legal stuff.
uptown_gargoyle t1_iycrx0w wrote
Oooo I actually love this subject (passive voice being used to cover up the crimes of those in power).
The historical marker outside the Paul Robeson house is a really good example.
>[Robeson's] career suffered because of his political activism...
This makes it sound like he was bad at time management or something, and he neglected his work in order to do activist stuff. But the reality of course is that he was blacklisted by the government for being a socialist and a peace activist.
delcocait t1_iycs3ha wrote
This was a legitimate question. Of course I don’t know how long a typical sentence for voluntary manslaughter is, that’s the point. It seems absurdly low.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iycub7z wrote
Technically, a conviction requires being found guilty and being sentenced even though colloquially convicted often refers to only the verdict.
Maybe that's what the author intended to convey, but their phrasing is quite possibly the worst possible option they could have picked.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iycuhgh wrote
They do, but it's a tough sell on appeal.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iycuqq9 wrote
If the prosecutor asked for a relatively light sentence compared to other prosecutors and the judge imposed a sentence that's even lower, its entirely consistent to ask the judge to reconsider.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iycuuwt wrote
Where did you go to law school?
JWHISKY707 t1_iycuxqe wrote
Dont think it was felony murder.
JWHISKY707 t1_iycv76i wrote
Krasner is a clown. The court played out and now he wants to go back cause he has such a hard on for going after any cop he can.
Just look at his misconduct and scathing scolding's received from judges state and federal on just how unhinged he is trying to play out his fantasy ideology.
Franklinia_Alatamaha t1_iycvlr0 wrote
Correct, it was not. A.) Felony Murder is Murder in the 2nd Degree in PA and is punishable *only* by a determinant life sentence (in prison until you are dead, no exception), B.) He was not convicted of Murder in the 2nd Degree or any type of Murder charge, C.) He was convicted of Voluntary Manslaughter.
delcocait t1_iycvwyu wrote
Voluntary manslaughter is a first degree felony in Pennsylvania.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.025..HTM
Paparddeli t1_iycwcti wrote
Right, but it's not felony murder. That was my point.
[deleted] t1_iycwfzg wrote
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delcocait t1_iycx3df wrote
Your wording was unclear, it seemed to imply this was not a felony. I think colloquially we would all refer to voluntary manslaughter as a murder. And it was certainly a felony.
collectallfive t1_iyczop2 wrote
Do you think McDermott says the same thing about non-cop murderers? Or is this sentiment only reserved for cops?
SBRH33 t1_iyczsj1 wrote
True.
But this Judge was more then qualified to hand down the sentence that was appropriate given the totality of what occurred.
Larry just wants to look good for his people.
He's such a duplicitous son of a bitch and Philadelphians are gonna be stuck with him and his bullshit for a very long long time.
He will def eclipse Lynn Abrahams run as DA.
Ya get what ya pay for.
randym99 t1_iyczz5x wrote
Listen to John Oliver's recent piece on crime reporting by local news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCOnGjvYKI0
SBRH33 t1_iyd0i6c wrote
Ut'O, here comes the stroking of the Reddit "I'm A LaWyeR" cock.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iyd0r09 wrote
Why do you feel entitled to assess the qualifications of lawyers without a law degree?
PhillyPanda t1_iyd15ve wrote
>Not to mention the aggravating factor that the murderer in question was law enforcement
Where are you getting that’s an aggravating factor in PA?
SBRH33 t1_iyd1qaj wrote
Keep stroking. You'll get there bud.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iyd1tku wrote
For everyone speculating about what a normal sentence is and how often judges depart from the sentencing guidelines, there's data for that
https://pcs.la.psu.edu/research-data/interactive-data-portal/sentencing-conformity-report/
Krasmaniandevil t1_iyd1z20 wrote
You don't know what you're talking about, and now you're just being a dick rather than justifying your uninformed opinions.
uptown_gargoyle t1_iyd307x wrote
i think "the scathing scolding" will be the title of my next thrash album
PhillyPanda t1_iyd3e8o wrote
She does not for cop murderers
oliver_babish t1_iyd3jk1 wrote
Here's the first other case I could find:
In 1989, when John Blount was just 17, he was convicted of a double homicide. Blount was sentenced to death, and later re-sentenced to life in prison without a chance for parole. While incarcerated, he started a mentoring program for kids, kept a nearly spotless disciplinary record, and got his GED. He was written up only once, for owning a contraband radio. In 2016, following a series of Supreme Court decisions deeming mandatory life-without-parole sentences unconstitutional for defendants under 18, Blount was made eligible for a resentencing. Before his resentencing hearing in 2018, his lawyer had worked with the Philadelphia district attorney’s office to negotiate a 29-year-to-life sentence. The judge, however, disagreed. “I cannot discount two lives,” said Judge Barbara McDermott after rejecting the negotiated sentence. “I believe in proportionality in a sentence.” Her sentence, 35 to life, will make him eligible for parole at the age of 52. (Blount’s attorney is now petitioning the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to consider the case.)
It used to be unheard of for Philadelphia judges to reject a negotiated sentence in these resentencings—until Larry Krasner, arguably the most progressive prosecutor in the country, took over the city’s district attorney’s office in January 2018 and started delivering on a promise to minimize incarceration. In response, several Philadelphia judges have shut down his attempts to keep people out of prison or release them earlier. Some, such as McDermott, have overruled resentencing agreements.
Judge Barbara McDermott — who has in a handful of other cases accepted deals for juvenile lifers negotiated by Krasner's administration — has begun to reject some of the agreements she's reviewed.
One was for John Blount, who shot and killed two men as a teenager in 1989. The district attorney offered 29 years to life. On March 26, McDermott rejected that deal and imposed a sentence of 35 years to life, the minimum set by current sentencing law for a first-degree murder by a juvenile. The other was for Omar Dennis, who according to Daily News reports from 1994 shot and killed a man who'd beaten him in a "fair fight." McDermott rejected a 24-years-to-life deal and imposed a 28-year minimum instead.
degreelesspotatohead t1_iyd3sd0 wrote
The issue is that "felony murder" is a specific thing, not just a homicide that is a felony. If someone dies during the commission of (certain) felonies, those responsible for the felony are guilty of murder regardless of whether they intended the death. For example, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of a heart attack, you may be charged with felony murder. In PA, felony murder carries a mandatory life sentence.
Paparddeli t1_iyd5nu5 wrote
Voluntary manslaughter is considered homicide but not murder under the legal definition. I realize the confusion in my earlier post now, my wording wasn't wrong but I didn't explain it clearly enough. Homicide includes manslaughter and murder (murder being the more serious crime). Murder is divided into three degrees. First is the most serious kind of intentional killing. Second degree is murder during the commission of a felony, and also requires a life sentence like first degree. Third degree is less serious and then below these you have voluntary and involuntary manslaughter that are lesser offenses.
The degrees of felonies is a separate thing from the degrees of murder. The relevance of voluntary manslaughter being a first degree felony is that the max sentence is 20 years max and 10 year minimum. The three kinds of murder offenses aren't included in the felony grading, they have their own maximum sentences.
AbsentEmpire t1_iyd7t20 wrote
This light sentence he has an issue with, however the light sentences and wrist slaps that he gets for the repeat violent criminals he fails to lock up are fine.
What a fucking clown, can't wait for him to be out of office.
AbsentEmpire t1_iyd84hy wrote
His suburban raised, poverty larping fan boys, will never admit that he's been a disaster for the city, even as they quietly move back out to the burbs because of his policies.
oliver_babish t1_iyd85gm wrote
Let's take a look. (2019)
A Philadelphia judge on Friday sentenced a former Center City real estate agent to 3½ to seven years in state prison in the fatal shooting of her boyfriend in her Fishtown apartment building two years ago.
Common Pleas Court Judge J. Scott O’Keefe had convicted Jeanette Wakefield, 39, of voluntary manslaughter and possession of an instrument of crime after a nonjury trial in July. He added two years of probation and ordered her to get counseling.
Another (2018), but with guilty pleas:
Saying that three Philadelphia women had "unleashed a savage act" on a homeless man when they brutally beat him outside an Olney gas station three years ago, leading to his death seven months later, a judge on Friday sentenced the women to prison terms of more than a decade.
During a nearly three-hour hearing, Common Pleas Court Judge Sandy Byrd said the beating death of Robert Barnes, 51, which was captured on surveillance video, "is one in which we all witnessed the very worst attributes of humanity."
The three women — Aleathea Gillard, 37; Kaisha Duggins, 27; and Duggins' sister, Shareena Joachim, 26 — pleaded guilty Jan. 29 to charges of voluntary manslaughter, conspiracy, and possession of an instrument of crime in Barnes' death.
Byrd sentenced Gillard and Duggins to the maximum term of 22½ to 45 years in state prison. He sentenced Joachim to 12½ to 25 years.
Next link (2009), again after guilty pleas:
Three men who pleaded guilty to beating a Phillies fan to death outside Citizens Bank Park in 2009 have been sentenced. The altercation followed spilled drinks in a crowded bar, and there were running alcohol-fueled brawls that ended in the parking lot.
After a mistrial was declared in September, the following month, all of the defendants pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter. ..
Each of the defendants received different sentences, based on culpability. Judge Shelley Robins New sentenced Francis Kirchner to 9-18 years, for meting out what could have been the fatal kick to the victim's head. Charles Bowers received 5-10 and James Groves got 2-4 years.
libananahammock t1_iydb9t0 wrote
Everyone is posting links and sources claiming otherwise and yet here you are with nothing but playground taunts lol
[deleted] t1_iydbv6v wrote
Police officers should be held to a higher standard. Easy.
IPA_lot_ t1_iydbyoc wrote
Crime is crime. Everyone should be treated fairly.
LoudGroans t1_iydduqu wrote
Yes. I personally know someone who was jammed up on a felony charge. The case went on for so long that when the judge finally threw it out against the recommendation of the DA, the DA's office fought tooth and nail to go over the judge's head and re-file the charges. The guy left the court room all excited that it was over and his lawyer literally stopped him and said he's safe for now, but that it's pretty common for the DA's office to re-file charges like these. Couldn't believe it when I heard it.
[deleted] t1_iyde402 wrote
Yes, fairly. He got preferential treatment (lighter sentence) for being a cop. This should correct that.
LoudGroans t1_iydevib wrote
"suburban raised poverty larping fanboys" is the best description I've ever fucking heard used to describe these kids. Like, bro, you set a car on fire at a BLM protest a couple years ago but you literally don't even make eye contact with the dude asking for change at the light on Aramingo on the way back to your 1600 dollar studio apartment in Fishtown. Fuckin' crusaders, man. None of us poor folks asked for their help, but they insist on giving it because they lack any semblance of control over their office job.
Paparddeli t1_iydl9h2 wrote
Thank you - that exactly answers the question. So 1 out of 13 in 2019 were below the mitigated range, like this sentence. I would imagine most cases nationally where a cop is involved they would be far below the standard recommended sentence, assuming the state has guidelines.
Edit: also, Kim Potter the Minnesota cop who accidentally pulled a gun instead of a taser and was convicted of manslaughter got a very similar sentence to this one.
Paparddeli t1_iydn3zx wrote
Well look, I know that sentences below the guidelines aren't that rare. And I can surmise that that's especially true when there's a good reason for it (like the defendant having a really tough job where they are expected to maybe have to pull their gun and maybe shoot someone). The links posted elsewhere in this thread back that up.
[deleted] t1_iydnxon wrote
Bartleby_TheScrivene t1_iydpalb wrote
I thought the whole structure of our justice system was that the state, with its unlimited resources and time, should be limited in how it handles cases.
That's why you can't be tried for the same crime twice, because the state can outwear and outlast any lawyer or defendents coffers.
It's also why prosecutors offices aren't supposed to go back on cases they already closed, because their resources are unlimited and they could push for higher sentences over and over again until it finally cracks, or they find a judge they like.
You can argue all you want about how Krasner sucks or how the cops sucks, but no government entity should be able to continously try any American citizen until they get the verdict they want.
Krasmaniandevil t1_iydtryk wrote
One limitation of the data is that it doesn't tell you the degree of the departure (i.e., 10% below the mitigated range vs. 80% below).
This deviation is pretty substantial, but it's important to realize that if the officer received a longer sentence that he would have had to go to a state facility instead of the Philadelphia jail. It's pretty common for judges to round down to 11.5-23 months to avoid sending someone upstate, which would be even more dangerous for a police officer.
Paparddeli t1_iye0o29 wrote
Yes, that's definitely a key part of this sentence. Most people wouldn't realize that he got under 2 years so he could serve it in the county.
Arejaaay t1_iye41b9 wrote
The best example of Krasner being Krasner!
SlamBrandis t1_iye7wnh wrote
Am I reading this right that our of all the involuntary manslaughter convictions this is the only one with sentencing less than the recommended prison term?
boundfortrees t1_iye83ko wrote
He did start a Conviction Integrity Unit that has freed several innocent people.
carp_boy t1_iyefeye wrote
Some time ago I appeared in front of a DJ on a criminal matter. My lawyer advised me that even if we prevailed in this preliminary hearing, the police could refile in some other district court.
Everything worked out.
_Sebaceous_cyst t1_iyegi8x wrote
Wait people are ok with this pig taking a life and only getting a year or 2 in prison?
Krasmaniandevil t1_iyehpk8 wrote
The data here isn't current, and you can only see one year at a time, so it's not a perfect point of comparison but it's the best we have.
I'm sure someone who knows how to code could make a better tool, but that ain't me.
no483828 t1_iyei1i5 wrote
For those who don't know how the PA prison system works, any sentence over 23 months has to be served in state prison. A sentence of 11 and 1/2 to 23 months is the most you can get while staying in county jail. Anything higher and he would be shipped out to the state correctional facility.
[deleted] t1_iyeyvmd wrote
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gnartato t1_iyf57oj wrote
So you're blaming him for doing something correct, because of unrelated faults. At least give credit when credit is due.
redeyeblink OP t1_iybjwos wrote
>Ruch was convicted of 11.5 to 23 months behind bars for the deadly shooting.
>
>District Attorney Larry Krasner called the sentence "concerning" and "troubling" because the standard range is a minimum of 54 months in prison.
>
>"We respectfully request that the Court reconsider its sentence, and sentence the defendant within the state standard guidelines. His conduct warranted such a sentence, and it would be the just result," he said.
>
>The felony manslaughter charge carries a term of up to 20 years in prison.
>