I think it'd be helpful to gather some data. If we can quantify how bad it is here (and I agree it's bad) by measuring things like accidents per capita per day, traffic fatalities, etc., then we can set goals and evaluate our progress. Politicians (or whomever) could also travel to similar cities that have fewer accidents (or whatever the metrics are) and learn about what makes those cities' driving culture different from ours, and then try to apply those strategies here.

I'm aware of the existence of Vision Zero but I don't know anything really about them.

I also think a significant part of this is the cops' apparent refusal to enforce traffic laws. I don't really know what the answer to that is.

I remember reading some pundit (maybe Matt Yglesias?) saying that no politician will engage with the traffic safety issue because it has "low ideological salience." In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

In reality, if you're relying on enforcement to make traffic safer, you're too late. Every enforcement mechanism (including our boy's "mandatory 4k") is vulnerable to abuse. Some more than others, but all can be abused.

Our real problem is that our roads are designed for maximum throughput of cars instead of maximum safety of all users (not just drivers). So the best thing you can do is to support rational, safety-oriented redesign of roads in a way that promotes pro-social driving.

MAKE TRANSIT FREE AND BUILD MORE OF IT.

I agree. It was bad before the pandemic and now ppl honestly just don't give a fuck. It's like the pandemic brought out the worst in ppl. Petty and grand larceny (such as the guys just walking into an apple store in broad daylight and ripping the phones off the cord) and just absolutely reckless driving. It's ridiculous.

The shitty driving behavior comes from the overall culture problem we have in America. The problem is a lot of people are inpatient, selfish, self-entitled, and used to instant gratification.

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>So the best thing you can do is to support rational, safety-oriented redesign of roads in a way that promotes pro-social driving.

Any source to why this would override people's shitty behavior? (also, hands off our 4K boy, lol)

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The way I see it, a total lack of enforcement had led to a free-for-all mentality, and not just on the road. We need new people at the very top - mayor, police commish, totally revamp the police and disband the poisonous police union. That's a good start.

Last paragraph nails it! Take the decision out of the driver's hands. If roads are built with pedestrians and cyclists in mind, they will naturally restrict and regulate driver movements. That's also going to make it a lot more frustrating to drive around town which in turn leads to more people walking, cycling, opting for public transit.

Back in the 90s, the bus system was fantastic. I forget when, but they cut routes & service in years since.

> MAKE TRANSIT SAFE AND CLEAN

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Sorry, this is a repost and has been removed to eliminate clutter in the sub.

If you feel this was done in error, feel free to contact the moderators.

> In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

Wasn't the same thing true of cigarette smokers when it was more popular? Despite that, the anti-cigarette campaign was popular. Honestly it seems like a benefit when all political tribes have the same issue, cause polarized issues take 10x longer to solve.

> no politician will engage with the traffic safety issue because it has "low ideological salience." In other words, terrible drivers come from all political tribes and so you can't make a wedge issue/culture war out of it.

we're in a single party city. It's hard to demonize a political outgroup as the source of our issues with any intellectual honesty.

This line of political thinking makes perfect sense in larger elections, but we don't have an opposing tribe to hate here

If there's concrete blocking people from bypassing traffic in a bike lane or only one lane in each direction, you're forced to move with traffic. What we consider congestion--restriction of the speed of traffic flow--can actually make roads safer because cars have no option but to slow down.

Changing the physical design of roads is really the only way to (mostly) force people to drive carefully.

The issue is, by these metrics we aren't that bad: https://www.usinsuranceagents.com/deadliest-cities-for-drivers/. "You might think that the deadliest U.S. cities are our country’s biggest cities — places such as New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, and Philadelphia. But in reality, the deadliest cities for U.S. drivers range across a slew of mid-sized metros."

This data is a couple years old, but I doubt we went from #68 in deadliest cities to drive (factoring in thefts, chance of crash, and traffic deaths) to like #1. I see what everyone else is seeing on the roads today - but it's a known fact that driving habits changed nationwide during COVID. None of this makes it any better, but I could easily see our politicians latching on to this as a reason to do nothing. They certainly aren't going to go out of their way to see what other cities are doing.

I fully agree with your last point, a big part of this is police refusing to enforce traffic laws. Despite having the driver's equity bill as an "excuse", there is NOTHING preventing them from enforcing moving violations. We should just do what DC did and put speed/redlight cameras absolutely everywhere.

Nah, that's not really accurate. Driving in the US is more organized, courteous, and regulated than almost anywhere in the world.

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Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for less physical safety, separation of vehicular and other traffic etc. BUT, you cannot fortify and armor every block in the city, no city can. Enforcement has to be integral to traffic function, especially when flaunting laws seems to be rampant. Unless you're calling to make every single street in the city one way lined by concrete - good luck. And even on these roads people make turns, don't they?

That's why I said "mostly". Yes, you can't use concrete and pavement to stop people from running stop signs or red lights or double parking. But slowing people with physical barriers can do a lot, and you definitely can do it on most streets. You can also block car traffic from streets entirely, which solves quite a lot of problems as well.

And by "can" I mean it's physically possible. Politically, maybe not, but I'd say that expecting PPD to consistently enforce traffic laws is also not politically easy either.

where's the original post? I get that people bitch about drivers all the time on here but I don't know of any recent posts wherein people are actually proposing solutions

Yeah, the US has a better infrastructure for cars than other places but that doesn't mean people aren't shitty drivers and selfish pricks.

>but I'd say that expecting PPD to consistently enforce traffic laws is also not politically easy either.

Agree. This is why top priority (in a perfect world) should be to redo the entire police department. Most of all - keep safe out there!

I guess--what I'm getting at is relying on human enforcement of other humans (especially considering the deeply flawed nature of policing and public distrust ) is not always the best choice for getting better outcomes.

Especially with police, who have been given tons of responsibilities that they probably aren't capable of carrying out. Leave crime investigation and smaller-scale conflicts to them, and find other ways of deterring other bad behaviors.

north broad needs a massive road diet. the traffic lights every block aren't enough.