Comments
BearFromPhilly t1_j6ayczj wrote
My interpretation was that the kind of narcissist who is going to hop the gate is more prone to anti-social behavior overall.
YMMV.
PhillyAccount t1_j6av8d1 wrote
Fare evasion is an issue on every major transit system right now. It does seem however like SEPTA has ceded the El and BSL to the dirtbags.
Vague_Disclosure t1_j6bciqw wrote
just because something is an issue everywhere doesn't mean septa can't take steps to mitigate it
PhillyAccount t1_j6dsulf wrote
Im suggesting that septa doesn't even have a response, compared to other agencies who have at least identified it as an issue.
Paparddeli t1_j6ay0ng wrote
MTA in NYC estimated that fare evasion has tripled in recent years and that they are losing $500 million a year. It certainly has to be tens of millions of dollars here. You are never going to eliminate it completely, but getting that number down significantly could have a big effect.
mikebailey t1_j6bt9lz wrote
SEPTA also has some more advanced forms of evasion e.g. selling key swipes and transfers because they cool off differently than MTA etc
DeltaNerd t1_j6dqeky wrote
The whole sit around and do nothing is not an answer. At this rate there is going to have to be some type of unpopular decision to keep them off the system and maybe get them into treatment
Your_next_employee t1_j6grr5a wrote
Not all public transit systems collect a fare.
apathy2 t1_j6dtpot wrote
> I think higher gate-style turnstiles are pretty common on European transit systems.
Different places have different systems but many places in Europe operate on the honor system. There will be ticket purchase machines at the entrance or on the platform and nothing preventing you from getting on the train. However, they have random ticket inspectors and if you don't have a ticket, you pay a very expensive fine.
So, it's quick and easy for everyone to get on and off and there is a large enough potential penalty that it's not worth it for the vast majority of people to try to skip out on.
Paparddeli t1_j6du93s wrote
I've been on light rail like that, but I don't think I've ever seen a metro system with ticket inspectors though. I would be fine with that kind of system on our regional rail. Our system is kind of already set up for it. Maybe even buses and trolleys if we have a redesign. But we'd need to actually have the inspectors and enforce the fines.
kelopons t1_j6ldbml wrote
Central Europe allows you to use public transportation without checking your tickets (Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia) but in places like Hungary you WILL find random people checking your tickets at any point. Usually once the train leaves and if you were not honest with your subway ride, be ready to pay a good fine.
[deleted] t1_j6ch0an wrote
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atheken t1_j6dbwnb wrote
It should cost $0 to ride SEPTA.
The city profits through increased economic activity, but this is not easy to measure, especially not by SEPTA.
Some of the funding that goes into maintaining roads should go to reducing volume/wear on those roads (i.e. get more traffic off of the roads).
I don't think that enforcing a nominal fare would help with the homeless/drug issue at all. Look at the corridor to the PATCO from Walnut-Locust - that's "public space" and doesn't require a fare to get in.
Perhaps just deciding that a place to sleep, shit, and shower is a human right would go further than trying to lock people out of train stations.
Paparddeli t1_j6dshyk wrote
> The city profits through increased economic activity, but this is not easy to measure, especially not by SEPTA.
People won't take public transit if it isn't safe and not too unpleasant. So by keeping the system and unsafe, you lose people who are going to take transit into the center city to shop or see an event. They may end up driving to a suburban mall or movie theater instead.
> Some of the funding that goes into maintaining roads should go to reducing volume/wear on those roads (i.e. get more traffic off of the roads).
Yes, I agree. But I'd like to see riders chip in some money too. More importantly, I think legislators are more prone to fully fund the system if it isn't free for everyone.
> I don't think that enforcing a nominal fare would help with the homeless/drug issue at all. Look at the corridor to the PATCO from Walnut-Locust - that's "public space" and doesn't require a fare to get in.
We certainly could kick homeless people out of transit stations/public corridors when they set up camp, but someone (surely not someone who commutes on public transit everyday) made a decision not to for whatever reason. Assuming we have the resources, it wouldn't be that hard to chase the vast majority of people who aren't using the system away. I'm not advocating for harsh methods at all, but I do think we should put up some more barriers to having homeless kept out.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6aw841 wrote
We should make it free, full stop.
The fact that un-housed people and people with mental health and drug addiction issues are “making SEPTA bad” isn’t SEPTA’s failure. It’s society’s failure. Even if you did all of this…these individuals are still going to ride the subway and buses and regional rail. People will find a way to use SEPTA. So the question is; what are we going to do to help these people? The issue isn’t enforcing fares. The issue runs deeper than SEPTA. SEPTA can’t fix this and enforcing fares isn’t going to either.
Make SEPTA free because there are other benefits. We should be looking at what Boston did with their pilot program. We should be investing in alternative modes of transportation that aren’t cars. We should make driving more expensive. But in the meantime, we should make SEPTA 100% free because it benefits a heck of a lot of people.
Paparddeli t1_j6axi31 wrote
>we should make SEPTA 100% free because it benefits a heck of a lot of people.
My perspective is that we should make SEPTA cleaner, safer, and more frequent because THAT would benefit a heck of a lot of people. Yes, it's a tradeoff, but it's a tradeoff pretty much every good transit system overseas makes.
If we had low crime and tons of police officers to patrol the system, maybe free transit would be okay. But that just isn't realistic. And the choice isn't--or at least shouldn't have to be--let the people with mental health and drug addition issues ride around transit or don't help them at all. We could do more to take care of those people in other ways and I'm not sure how we're really helping them anyway by letting them sleep or use drugs on the train.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6ay5hl wrote
We do have transit police.
The choice could be, stop spending money on enforcing fairs (how much diD SEPTA KEY cost?) and hire social workers and actually try to help people? Do outreach to these individuals and get them help, if they choose to take it.
Honestly, here’s what I don’t get. I could pay to get on the BSL right now and ride it for hours right? What’s stopping me from doing that?
Scumandvillany t1_j6bnm1k wrote
It is not septa's responsibility to do mental health work.
Paparddeli t1_j6ayxhg wrote
Our numbers of police and transit police specifically is way down following retirements and mediocre recruiting. I pretty much never see them when I ride. And I think they've basically backed off completely in enforcing fare evasion, smoking on the platforms and in the cars and drug use. The SEPTA police chief quit recently, maybe over that issue.
I'm certainly in favor of hiring social workers, but I don't think transit stations/cars should be the place for really making an intervention in people's lives (maybe the homeless outreach place at Suburban Station, but otherwise, no).
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6b0h3u wrote
So people are riding for free now. And transit police don’t do anything.
Sounds like we need drastic change, not more of the same. Because the current system clearly isn’t working. So how do you propose making it cleaner and safer under the current system? Rely on the same Transit cops and unsuccessful solutions in place and…hope for the best?
UndercoverPhilly t1_j6bdvr5 wrote
The police are MIA so we can't rely on them.
Free rides for everyone will not work because those that are making the rides uncomfortable for a lot of people will still be on there. Even if it is free I'm not riding it while junkies reign free and the rest of the anti-social behavior and misdemeanors are happening on the BSL or MFL. I'd rather walk or take the bus and I don't need to see or experience all that negativity if I can help it.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6bgldb wrote
So what’s the solution? Just make it harder to pay? That doesn’t work either. It’s not working now. People in this thread admit it doesn’t work.
So what’s the solution? It’s not lock people up willy nilly either.
UndercoverPhilly t1_j6bi2la wrote
Eventually they are going to get locked up. The more violence and anti-social behaviors that occur, the less sympathy there will be for them. I don't think we are at a point in the USA in which society is going to turn around and embrace a new kind of way to deal with breaking the law or in which the American people are going to change from being individualist, you are on your own, to "it takes a village," in the next 5-10 years. We've seen a multitude of mass shootings, even of children and nobody has done ANYTHING to help, other than train children and teachers to hide. If we aren't willing to protect our own children from being gunned down, we aren't going to help a junkie who is harassing people, shooting up or engaging in other anti-social behavior on public transportation.
I could be wrong, and I'd be happy if I were and something is developed that changes things for the better. I think it is more likely that the pendulum will swing in the other direction and there will be a harder crack down on violent crime and the petty crimes as well.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6biqsw wrote
Well that’s a depressing and heartbreaking mentality. The solution to jumping the turnstile will be…hard time? Come on.
UndercoverPhilly t1_j6bk1sb wrote
Not necessarily for jumping the turnstile but for those people who are smoking, doing drugs, etc.on the subways and otherwise involved with criminal activity if the pendulum swings the other way (anti-crime) with leadership in the next generation. The system will probably close down (due to bankruptcy, low ridership) before there is anti-crime leadership. My point is that if we wanted a different way of life in the USA, we'd have it. Most people care about themselves (and maybe their immediate family) and that's it. I don't see that changing in at least a generation.
douglas_in_philly t1_j6fjskk wrote
Unfortunately the idealistic solution is the most difficult to implement, and will almost certainly take the longest to show results. The vast majority of people who want to ride on SEPTA are not deranged with mental illness, nor are they high-as-a-kite junkies. But because there are enough of those people who are on SEPTA, many people are choosing not to use the system, and that will cause it to fail, and then everyone loses—including the turnstile jumpers.
You can propose your solution, others will propose theirs. The one that wins wins. Unfortunately, while most people are very sympathetic, they’re also realistic and pragmatic, and they’re not going to put other people’s problems in front of their own desire for a pleasant life. Is that good? Is it right? Unfortunately, that doesn’t matter, because it’s the way it is. I’m not saying don’t speak up and fight for it to be some other way, but if you don’t realize that this is the reality, it’s going to make your fight for idealism a lot more difficult.
At least that’s my opinion as someone who also believes in fighting for idealistic changes in our world.
DeltaNerd t1_j6c2ib0 wrote
Frankly I don't see the current benefit now. The homeless should not be using Septa as a place to live. Unfortunately making Septa free will lead to decrease service. Also people are already hoping the fare gates now. No enforcement right now.
Let's be real here when is the last time you rode on the MFL at night and felt safe? I have ridden at night a few times and its getting worse every time I ride at night
uptown_gargoyle t1_j6asrew wrote
I agree that SEPTA's current honor system doesn't seem to be producing ideal results.
FishtownYo t1_j6b4tc5 wrote
In the ‘90s there used to be a laundromat at 11th and Spruce (I think or right around there) where the machines only accepted tokens. Each token cost a quarter and were a perfect match for Septa tokens, so we used to ride the EL for a quarter all the time. Miss those days.
Analog-Digital t1_j6apdi8 wrote
I think they’re actually working on this?
jpstanton93 t1_j6du0ef wrote
Yeah, I think this falls under the SEPTA Key 2.0 program. There was a prototype of a new turnstile in the lobby of 1234 Market last summer, idk if it's still there.
Edit: Here's a picture of it
[deleted] t1_j6lbh6r wrote
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xphizio t1_j6j1gxh wrote
Looks easy to break through and vandalise.
mishmash43 t1_j6bgco5 wrote
broad and cecil b - it feels like maybe 40% of people choose to pay.
[deleted] t1_j6buc9y wrote
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familyofgeniuses t1_j6czgbz wrote
I'm becoming more and more of a hard liner about this stuff. I strongly believe we need to improve and redesign our housing systems so more people choose them but... our shelters and transitional housing programs are not at capacity. I volunteer at a housing program and it's a constant struggle to get beds even 80% filled. Homeless people on the el are there because they choose to do that rather than participate in programming. This is going to remain the case forever as long as they have that choice.
I'm sympathetic to them, but not so sympathetic that I'm willing to cede our transit system to them.
ten-million t1_j6d6ux4 wrote
Why do homeless people prefer to sleep on SEPTA than at a shelter?
familyofgeniuses t1_j6d7twn wrote
rules, being assigned a different place than your friends, being assigned housing far from where you beg for money or buy drugs, safety/theft issues in emergency shelters, being checked for drugs and weapons. Also some people are homeless for so long being in an apartment distresses them.
[deleted] t1_j6d7zoh wrote
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PossibilityOrganic12 t1_j6dyyvr wrote
I think expanding train routes, more frequent run times, and having more affordable housing and accessible rehabilitation treatment centers would solve SEPTA's problems.
beachape t1_j6bic7s wrote
For trolleys and busses there unfortunately isn’t a turnstile at most locations. I’ve seen homeless people just board without paying and the driver waves them on. The driver doesn’t want a fight.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6cmpy6 wrote
Everyone is going to dislike this, but this is why you make it free. With free transit, now EVERYONE boards without paying and the bus driver does his job and drives! You can also board from both doors!
Boston did this and found that buses that with free fares ran increased ridership and actually decreases travel times, because boarding and de-boarding was smooth.
Years ago I was on a regional rail that had to stop at the station and wait for police to remove a guy that didn’t pay. We waited for at least 10 minutes. Everyone had a worse experience and service up and down the line was impacted because SEPTA had to enforce the fare. If we made it free, there would have been no reason to stop! We would have continued service on time.
bredonhill t1_j6d7pzy wrote
And then with continued decrease in state and federal funding the transit system eventually bankrupts and then no one gets to ride for free or otherwise. “Free” public transit assumes the state or federal government is fitting the bill for the whole affair. But they don’t and will continue to do less and less. Free ridership is a panacea not built on reality. If you eventually bankrupt the system and it offers far less or no service then the ones that get hurt are the poor suckers who paid their fair share all along even when it hurt. Free ridership because you can’t or won fix the problem is the wrong motivation for free ridership. It’s giving up and ceding the system to criminals and jerks. Then you have The Warriors.
donttouchthirdrail t1_j6e2ax9 wrote
Are you or any members of your family dependent on septa for transportation. As in don’t own or have access to a car.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6e4knp wrote
No. For years me or my now wife took the train every day for work. But the pandemic changed that and we both work from home.
Right now we have two cars but would absolutely get rid of one if 1) SEPTA was more accessible (meaning more trains, my lines, more service, etc.) and 2) this area was more bike friendly and invested more in bike infrastructure. We are pro-transit and pro-bike.
donttouchthirdrail t1_j6e5luj wrote
Both of my grandparents live in New York City and are completely dependent on the subway and buses for travel. The MTA is already reducing service on the lines they live on due to budget issues, impart due to a massive increase in fare evasion. Fare dodging has real material effects on people’s lives. Making Septa free would completely annihilate their budget and mostly act as a massive subsidy for wealthy 9-5 commuters in the suburbs. Harrisburg has little interest in supporting septa and it has historically been one of the most underfunded transit agencies in the country, with a massive backlog of repairs and worthwhile expansions that have been on the back burner since the 60s. Any dollar you can get from Harrisburg should be dumped into increasing service before making fares free.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6e7r3p wrote
I’m sorry for your grandparents, truly.
I don’t know the answer but free transit pilot programs in other cities seem to be working. We should try them here. We should try to make the system work better for people and that shouldn’t always be enforcement. If free transit means the buses and trains run on time because boarding and deboarding is more efficient, and it’s safer for drivers and passengers because there’s no issues with people not paying, I think we should explore that. If free transit means more people use the system because it’s now convenient and less expensive than driving, I think we should explore that.
donttouchthirdrail t1_j6ei6az wrote
Free transit service works in cities where the RR is in the single digits, as is the modal share. KCATA is not useful service, it’s welfare for the destitute, who are the only people would take a bus that comes every two hours, because they have no choice otherwise. SEPTA is currently making ~280 million a year from fare revenue, and need to be going after riders who choose to use it because it’s convenient.
There’s a mental exercise I like to do that helps me illustrate this point. It’s called years of free transit instead of “X”, where x is the thing you want to build.
Would you rather have 4 years of free transit, or a fully ADA accessible regional rail with high level platforms.
Would you rather have 4 years of free transit, or a fully ADA accessible trolley system with new low platform cars, fully replacing the Kawasaki LRVa from the 80s.
Would you rather have 7 years of free transit, or an extension of the Broad street line up Roosevelt boulevard, serving roughly an extra 100k people per day
4 years of free transit, or new rail cars on el or the subway
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6eowya wrote
All fair points. These are all fair and legit questions and we should all think about them. I’ll present you with this thought experiment.
Your out-of-town friend says he’s coming to Philly for a week - part business and part pleasure. So his employer is paying for some of his meals and some of his stay, but not all. So his share…how is he paying for it? That’s easy and you don’t bat an eye - cash or card. Basically anywhere you go (Dirty Franks aside) will take a card, and everywhere will take cash.
But now, try to explain to him how he can use a bus, a train or a subway. It’s complicated! Sure the SEPTA key is fairly easy, but it’s still a barrier to using the system. How much should he load onto the card? Why can’t he just use cash in a train? Or can you but only the exact fare? It’s a bit confusing if you’re an out of towner to use - heck, it might be confusing if you’re in Philly and only use SEPTA once or twice a year.
Now reverse the situation. You go visit your friend in another city. Do you have any idea how you’re supposed to pay for transit in this city? Do they take cards? Do they take Apple Pay? Do you need a SEPTA Key equivalent? Can you pay on the train/subway/bus?
Why is public transit one of the few services that’s not always intuitive how to pay for it? Again, any hotel and (most) restaurants will take a credit card. You can go to a restaurant in another city and 99 out of 100 times you can pay with a credit card. And any Uber you take is tied a card. But transit? Well, it’s a more complicated and no two cities are exactly alike.
Fares are a barrier in more ways than just financial. The complexity of fares is a barrier to ridership.
donttouchthirdrail t1_j6erzzx wrote
SEPTA has e tickets on phones now: https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/fare-collection/mobile-applications/press-release/21290298/southeastern-pennsylvania-transportation-authority-septa-septa-launching-septa-key-tix-mobile-ticketing-pilot-program
Any they'll eventually give you the ability to pay with credit/debit cards, like new york city does already.
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internet_cousin t1_j6id30z wrote
Many people can ride septa for free already: senior citizens, namely, and students have discounted rates. These are great, as is the commuter pass pilot where employees of Penn, Drexel, etc got to ride for free.
Why should people who can pay not pay? It is revenue for a system that really needs it. As polls have shown, people choose not to ride septa because of issues around cleanliness and perceived safety, not because it is prohibitively expensive.
Also, as someone mentioned, there is no guarantee that the state or federal legislature will pick up the(large/increased) tab.
I am sympathetic to the idea, but will never understand the logic behind just "making it free". That seems like it would deal a death blow to an already critically ill system.
Cost is not a deterrent for most; it is convenience and comfort/perceived safety. And the "safety" part is a multifaceted issue that will only get better when the whole country responds to the opioid crisis, not just septa...
(Not trying to start a fight, just here to make hopefully salient points for a better public transit system. I never want to see a Philly without a robust septa, as annoying as they have been my whole life.)
Dismal-Radish-7520 t1_j6i7m0k wrote
everyone responding as if the government doesnt consistently lie about money and budgets to put the burden on the people and not on their paychecks and pockets. look at how they split up the budget and how much money this city pisses into the cops mouths. there is plenty of money for everyone to ride free but instead of us all having a good time, everyone wants to foam at the mouth because god forbid that would be socialism!!
[deleted] t1_j6db63z wrote
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NonIdentifiableUser t1_j6bs46w wrote
There should be a mechanism for them to radio it in and have removal of fare evaders by police. There’s a way for all of these problems, just not the will. It’s infuriating.
Proper-Code7794 t1_j6c19p9 wrote
And what exactly you areresting a bus rider for if they're just riding the bus for being poor or for being smelly?
DeltaNerd t1_j6c22re wrote
You know we can't have homeless on the subway systems. It's not housing. You know it's a difficult conversion to be had. Everyone can say subway dirty hur hur hur. But no one wants to do the hard work of keeping the system clean.
Proper-Code7794 t1_j6erg4u wrote
the carless housing isn't that far from mass transit living. Share all green space. Right? No lawns? How much green for you?
DeltaNerd t1_j6irs7p wrote
You are not making sense. We both don't like seeing homeless people on the streets and we both agree a solution is needed to take care of the homeless
FormalManifold t1_j6asol9 wrote
Run the numbers. Subway fare evasion is just not the major loss of revenue you think it is.
NonIdentifiableUser t1_j6atmz1 wrote
I don’t think that’s the point. The same people that dodge fares are the ones that cause the most problems on the trains.
WhyNotKenGaburo t1_j6b7sh4 wrote
While that may be true, I have jumped the turnstile several times because the damn card reader wasn't working, or my card randomly deactivated, which has happened four times (!) since I've lived here (just over a year). I am decidedly not a hooligan, nor have I ever been, but if I need to be someplace and SEPTA's stuff isn't working properly, I will jump the turnstile. I generally try to ask the sometimes nice person in the booth to let me in before I do that, though.
What WOULD help dramatically and be a long term solution, but seems politically and economically impossible at the moment, is a greater police presence throughout the system augmented by homeless outreach personnel. This sort of thing has made a huge difference in NYC after the pandemic, and periodically before.
prettylittlearrow t1_j6jjvte wrote
I jump the turnstile when the card reader isn't working (again) and I'm about to miss the train
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6awkez wrote
But that’s not fully SEPTA’s failure - it’s society’s failure! SEPTA can’t solve homelessness or mental health issues.
Good idea, force the unhoused and people with mental health challenges back on the street, so now the Reddit can complain that there are more people sleeping on the sidewalk. I’m sure enforcing fares will magically make these problems go away.
NonIdentifiableUser t1_j6awwun wrote
It’s not SEPTA’s burden to solve or even mitigate these problems. It shouldn’t be a controversial take to suggest that we should be able to take a train without worrying about being attacked, or stepping in excrement, or any other number of unpleasantries.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6ax7nf wrote
100% agree with you. But paying customers can attack you! Are we going to stop intoxicated people from riding too? I’m sure they could cause some unpleasantries too!
cruelhumor t1_j6baros wrote
So... the answer is that we can't solve ALL the problems, so we shouldn't even try? Is there a chance that a paying customer could attack you? Sure. Is that probability higher if you encourage people to gather on the trains and platforms for reasons other than their intended purpose? Absolutely.
If I can't regularly use a system for it's intended purpose (getting from point A to point B without being attacked, stepping in excrement, or arriving at my location reeking of weed) then that is a problem.
We need to fund other city services, that is the reality, and it is unfair to expect those of us that have to rely on SETA to pay for the fact that no one wants to fix those other programs. SEPTA is not a free public toilet, ashtray or homeless shelter, it's my only way to get to work, make money, and pay taxes. Respect the Ride.
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6bg98e wrote
We should try to solve problems! I’m not saying we shouldn’t try.
One way we try trying something new. Like free transit.
DippyMagee555 t1_j6dotng wrote
Oh, grow tf up. You sound so naive
FormalManifold t1_j6atqh6 wrote
That assertion is even less supported by evidence.
NonIdentifiableUser t1_j6atvf5 wrote
Do tell. I find it hard to believe that the people shooting up, smoking on the train, etc etc are paying riders. It’s comically easy to bypass the turnstile.
[deleted] t1_j6atzgy wrote
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NonIdentifiableUser t1_j6auwij wrote
I have no idea how you think you my comment is racist, at all. The fuck? I don’t have hard evidence that fare evaders are the main problem children on the trains but don’t pretend it’s an absurd assertion. A train fare is $2-2.50, and there are subsidized programs as well. Let’s not pretend the people jumping a turnstile are just down on their luck or some nonsense.
FormalManifold t1_j6cowui wrote
lol someone reported my calling out racism as racist.
uptown_gargoyle t1_j6cx2yj wrote
Another commenter referred to the problems of people smoking and shooting heroin on the train and your response was to the effect of "oh you mean black people".
FormalManifold t1_j6cx751 wrote
I was saying that's what they meant. Not what I think.
PM_ME_LADY_ANKLES t1_j6ap5zx wrote
Why didn't anyone else think of that?!
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FormerHoagie t1_j6gctj7 wrote
I’ve noticed recently that anyone still riding the MFL is forced off the train at the Frankford Terminal. They are doing their best to combat day riders who basically live on the cars. Today I got on at the end and it was a pure shitshow as the staff was reduced. First 3 cars were disgusting. I skipped to the next each station. First had a guy smoking a smelly blunt. Second had a huge pile of shit on the floor. In the third I encountered 3 dudes discussing the cost of meth. I pretended they were discussing eggs. The price of eggs is ridiculous. I settled in till I got off at Berks.
Note: skip the first 3 cars.
mobileagnes t1_j6gusox wrote
ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6auvu8 wrote
Just make transit free!
[deleted] t1_j6bd3ah wrote
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ThreePointsPhilly t1_j6bh6au wrote
OP is pitching a solution, yes, but it’s a bandaid solution for something that isn’t inherent SEPTA’s fault.
So we implement these changes, and now more unhoused people are sleeping in stations or on the street. That’s somehow better? It’s not. Stop pretending it’s better.
I mean I guess it “solves” SEPTA’s problems but now it’s shifted to someone else. It doesn’t solve the problem at all - just shifts who is responsible for it.
flamehead2k1 t1_j6bhnms wrote
SEPTA shouldn't be responsible for homelessness so that responsibility should shift
[deleted] t1_j6bkbda wrote
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douglas_in_philly t1_j6frc4t wrote
Do you lock your doors at night? If so, why? Isn’t locking them just a bandaid to societal problems?
Paparddeli t1_j6ar4xs wrote
I think that your point is that fare evasion is a big deal and it's screwing the system out of much-needed revenue that could provide more frequent service, which in turn would draw in more riders to fund better service, and then you'd create a virtuous cycle of increasingly better transit.
I don't know if I just wasn't paying attention before, but fare evasion seems much more common on the BSL and MFL now than before the pandemic. I'm all for discount monthly passes for people who have EBT cards or who qualify for the earned income tax credit (or some low income threshold), but I don't think that we should completely turn a blind eye towards fare evasion like we are doing now. The free transit movement also doesn't make much sense for a cash-strapped system like our own. Making sure people pay to get onto the system would also keep out some of the homeless/panhandlers/drug users who are making the system, quite frankly, revolting for the current paying customers. I think higher gate-style turnstiles are pretty common on European transit systems.