Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

LowPermission9 t1_j6kytno wrote

Reply to comment by WhiskyIsMyYoga in Third Bicyclist Killed in Philadelphia in January 2023 - Bicycle Coalition of Greater Philadelphia by hdhcnsnd

It’s not wonderful but at least there are bike lanes in many parts of Philly. The minute you cross city borders into the suburbs the bike lanes become nonexistent.

58

hdhcnsnd OP t1_j6l0ao6 wrote

The majority of bike lanes here are low quality (non-protected, usually in the door zone, occasionally inches from high speed traffic).

If you look at the 1/22 and 1/27 cyclist murders, both took place along streets with bike lanes. Without further details, I would presume both cyclists were riding in the bike lanes when they were killed.

This is the horrifying part. Our infrastructure is a painted line— maybe it makes you feel safe but there’s nothing stopping a car from crossing it. Bike lanes need to be protected or separated from cars or this will continue to happen.

This is pretty standard practice in NYC/SF/DC/Boston and miles ahead in Europe.

92

mortgagepants t1_j6mwa5a wrote

harrisburg made a law that in all of pennsylvania, you can't have parking separating bike lines on any state roads. they have to make the lanes in the door zone. (spring garden, broad, etc.)

14

courageous_liquid t1_j6nrnul wrote

Spring garden is going to be parking protected.

It's also not that harrisburg made a law, it's just that the way our streets are codified requires cars to be parked next to the curb. Parking protected bike lanes are "pilots" that PennDOT grants because they realize it would require a pretty heavy political lift from our insane state legislature to change the code.

2

mortgagepants t1_j6nsluc wrote

"Parking-separated bike lanes have historically been barred on state-owned roadways because Pennsylvania law requires parked vehicles to be within 12 inches of the curb, or the edge of the pavement." Although this is(was) technically the law for all roads in PA.

https://bicyclecoalition.org/pa-senate-committee-amends-parking-protected-bike-lane-bill-with-anti-municipal-amendment/

not disagreeing with you, just adding some nuance in case anyone else is following along.

6

courageous_liquid t1_j6nys6u wrote

Correct, thank you. I figured that bill was going to either get killed or poison pilled but never followed up, appreciate the article.

Pennsyltucky never fails to amaze me with their absolute braindead politics.

4

Booplympics t1_j6lh4qr wrote

> If you look at the 1/22 and 1/27 cyclist murders

Murders?

Hmmm downvotes but nobody explaining how it’s murder. Interesting.

−26

Norman_Door t1_j6lowjn wrote

This tragedy could probably be best classified as a homicide, not a murder.

My guess is that the people downvoting you because they are under the impression that you're trying to imply this is not a "murder" but an "accident."

11

Booplympics t1_j6lxix5 wrote

It is not murder. It is an accident. It’s also homicide. But homicide does not equal murder. These are indisputable facts.

Unless, of course, OP has proof that these were premeditated acts. In which case no amount of bike infrastructure would have stopped it and it would be weird to use such an unrelated act to push your agenda.

−8

Norman_Door t1_j6mq39o wrote

I agree with you on the murder part. It's the wrong word to use. Too often, however, these deaths are referred to as "accidents" by the media, which downplays the culpability of the driver in the cyclist's death.

11

ConfiaEnElProceso t1_j6l1o99 wrote

Yeah, the suburbs need better bike infrastructure as well.

But if you think Philly is safer, lanes or not, you are way off.

I live in the city and bike commute to the burbs every day. Yeah, i have to plan my way around crazy 4 lane roads with 35-45 mph speed limits, but the side streets are way, way, way safer than any side street in philly.

33

LowPermission9 t1_j6lh8bg wrote

This is true about the side streets. Still, the main roads are rough. I live right on Montgomery Ave in a 25mph zone where the minimum most people drive is 35-40. Also it’s 2 lanes each way with no shoulder. Same for Lancaster Ave. tbh, I’d rather bike on Columbus or Washington than here.

13

AbsentEmpire t1_j6n40ej wrote

Most of the bike lanes in this city are so bad they might as well not exist in practice.

I find biking in the suburbs to actually be safer most of the time because the streets are so wide cars pass you with enough space.

Drivers are also held to a higher degree of accountability in burbs since the cops there actually enforce traffic laws.

Worst case you can bike on the sidewalks and use them as a properly designed separated bike lane, because no fat ass in the suburbs walks, so they're always empty.

8

LowPermission9 t1_j6no5j9 wrote

I was about to admonish you for riding on the sidewalk until I got to your rationalization, and then I just laughed.

2

AbsentEmpire t1_j6noeh9 wrote

Ya, I don't bike on sidewalks in the city, people are actually walking on them.

I actually just don't bike all that much at all anymore, since the lock downs the drivers have gotten even worse and I just don't feel safe biking in the city anymore.

5

mortgagepants t1_j6mw3ii wrote

that's literally by design. the whole point of the suburbs is they don't want city people coming to them.

3

LowPermission9 t1_j6nofg3 wrote

Yup! There’s a new mixed use and dense development happening in Newtown Square designed for walkability. You should see the comments of shock and disgust on Nextdoor.

7