Submitted by kingintheyunk t3_10l9f7u in philadelphia

I was looking at a house to buy near 46th and Locust. I had some experienced real estate guys tour the house with me and they discovered some structural issues. Turns out when we checked the mill creek overlay, the house is built directly over the creek. I had no idea the creek was even buried below the city. They advised me to avoid buying any house over the creek, as structural issues are common. Makes me wonder how many people know about this when they buy in that area. Anyway, this is what I learned today.



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thefrozendivide t1_j5vgtlh wrote



kingintheyunk OP t1_j5vo7xb wrote

I'm wondering if an inspector would catch this. They would see the strucutal issues, but would they know it's built on a creek? Maybe not all inspectors. My guys knew because they have been in the west philly real estate game for 40 years.


ScoffingYayap t1_j5wbd7p wrote

I mean if an inspector missed something this obvious I feel like there are grounds for legal action against them if it went through


aputhehindu t1_j5wcynl wrote

There’s not. You have to PROVE that they intentionally found and withheld information. Being bad at your job is not illegal.


subgraphics t1_j5wj3ps wrote

Ugh, thank you. Everybody's first instinct is "sue, sue, sue". I'm not saying there's never a place for lawsuits, but maybe parallel & equally important questions more often should be, "Hello prospective homeowner, how many inspectors did you look at and consider? Did YOU do your due diligence? Ultimately, YOU chose this person to represent you and your interests...why?"


mikebailey t1_j5wt6qg wrote

Not to roast the specific commenter but usually if people say “I feel like” about laws it’s wrong


8Draw t1_j5xhqys wrote

This is exactly what regulations and licensing are supposed to be for because the average person isn't an electrician, doctor, lawyer, home inspector and truly has little idea how to vet one beyond the opinions of other people just as unqualified.


atheken t1_j5y9aeg wrote

The fallacy in your argument is that the average home buyer has the time or expertise to (critically) evaluate different home inspectors.

Do they need to hire an inspector? Yes.

Should the inspector have insurance and a certification? Yes.

Beyond getting recommendations from friends and your real estate agent, the typical home buyer mostly “doesn’t know what they don’t know.” - which is why they’re paying $500 to someone to do a basic walkthrough of a house.

This extends to all sorts of areas of our lives where it’s basically impossible for an individual to be fully informed, at some point we make a judgement call and make a decision.


jamin_g t1_j5wkoxj wrote

Yeah a property inspection is really worthless unless you know and trust the inspector


roobinsteen t1_j5xiam8 wrote

As obvious as structural issues, or as obvious as built upon a buried creek? Because if the latter, that is not obvious.


ArsenicLifeform t1_j5xajpg wrote

Inspector would never catch this unless the structural issues were imminent


HyruleJedi t1_j5w0kbw wrote

What if your best friend is a civil engineer, land surveyor, and specifically inspects things for a living?


kilometr t1_j5wbb9y wrote

I’m a civil engineer and unless your friend inspects houses for a living, which is rare for a civil engineer, I would still hire one.

Issues that a home inspector would catch don’t overlap much with what most civil engineers do. structural stuff maybe, but not smaller things involving utilities, etc.


JudgeDreddNaut t1_j5wq37y wrote

Yeah I'm a civil and I still have hired an inspector for all the homes I've ever purchased. I know enough to know I don't know enough.


dannygunz t1_j5wt0hi wrote

A lot of home inspectors just go through a checklist and aren't very thorough. I would recommend people not just feeling safe because they have an inspector. Do as much homework as possible before and scrutinize the hell out of the place with the inspector while walking through, or better yet bring your civil engineer/contractor/whatever friend or family to do it too.


loctastic t1_j5w4lns wrote

How do people even get insurance if they waive inspection?


atheken t1_j5y9yd5 wrote

As far as I know, you can’t get a mortgage if you can’t get insurance.

The insurance company has a lot of data about geographic issues that could generate a claim (such as a pocket of housing built over a creek).

The OP story sounds scary, but they caught the issue, and there are so many different gates you have to go through when buying a house with a mortgage that I think these types of horror stories are the exception, not the rule.


Frummage t1_j5wwoil wrote

We had a good inspector and he saved us from buying a house where the owner had basically nailed sheetrock up over a leak that ran from the roof to the basement.


bushwhack227 t1_j5xl1cz wrote

I hope all these yuppie idiots who made cash offers and waived inspections lose their fucking shirts.


Bumblebeee_tuna_ t1_j5w70pb wrote

In a competitive market it can be a value add. We did this in Wildwood and no problems arised (we were smart about it).

But also, inspectors are a joke. They call out the nail pops, go through the motions, and aren't held accountable for any issues that arise.


joaofava t1_j5wdn8u wrote

Not needed in todays market so who cares.

But, if you obviously need to replace and renovate a lot, it’s arguable that the inspector is needed. I’ve waived inspection ever since a great inspector missed basically all the relevant major issues in my first house purchase. You can’t really catch structural issues especially.

Even when I waive inspection I bring in the inspector later for a punch list of little things.


jbphilly t1_j5vglzk wrote

I was just thinking about this earlier today as I went past 43rd and Baltimore. The path of Mill Creek runs south, approximately under 43rd St, from about Walnut down to Baltimore where it then goes under Clark Park (the Bowl was a former mill pond) and onward to the Schuylkill. Upstream of there, it goes more to the northwest. Maybe someone else can link to a good map, as I'm lazy/in the middle of work.

I would be pretty hesitant to buy a house anywhere along that creek. Now, obviously the vast majority of blocks on top of its course are fine....but there have been some dramatic cases where they were very much not fine in the past century.

Two big examples come to mind:

  • Around 50th and Brown, about half a city block worth of rowhomes were swallowed when the ground caved in along the creek/sewer's course. There's now a playground on the site.

  • The location of Supremo at 43rd and Walnut was formerly home to houses on the 4300 blocks of Sansom and Walnut, many of which were also destroyed by a similar cave-in.

As an honorable mention, the 2019 sinkhole in the middle of Baltimore Ave at 43rd was of course caused by subsidence along the same path. And before the redesign of Clark Park, you'd often get ridiculous flooding at the corner there - I have a photo from 2010 of at least a foot of water engulfing the northeast corner of the A Park.

Even if houses along the creek's course aren't necessarily at a super high risk of collapse, it has to be higher than...well, literally anywhere else, and also I have to assume they deal with way more basement flooding than the average.

Personally I like living, if not on the top of a former hill, at least on the upward half of a slope, in between former creek basins.


be_author t1_j5vhhwg wrote

Not sure if it also is related but the street between the 43rd Street CVS and Penn Alexander is constantly needing to be repaired and covered in standing water. Lots of bad signs around there.


linds930 t1_j5wpr2g wrote

I resent the puddle at the entrance to that CVS


ageofadzz t1_j5xco97 wrote

Left west philly four years ago. That puddle never leaves does it?


linds930 t1_j5y5uf0 wrote

I’ve been here for five. I believe it has gotten worse.


timory t1_j5wvob3 wrote

i have been staring down that stupid puddle since i moved to this city in 2006


Revolutionary_Bee700 t1_j5xjnio wrote

Many years ago, I rented the basement apartment of the building next to cvs and the giant puddle. The landlords had to lease me another unit before I moved in, because it filled with water.


pottsnpans t1_j5wtc7b wrote

Back in the late 80s, my first apartment was at 43rd and Baltimore on the second floor over of what is now Clarkville. Back then it was the Wurst House (anyone remember that gem?). All the floors were slightly slanted and over the time we were there a crack, running from the floor to the ceiling slowly grew in my bedroom. I've eaten there a couple of times and it's really nice now.

The living room, where I proposed to my wife, is now the second floor ladies room.


fritolazee t1_j5xl63r wrote

Thanks for sharing, I love that bit of hyper local history! Also now I get why the business there when I moved in to the area was called Best House.


catjuggler t1_j5xps1x wrote

Aka best house, right?!


Buddy_Fluffy t1_j5y29on wrote

Best House replaced Wurst House and then Clarkville replaced Best House.


jbphilly t1_j5ykqq7 wrote

The most infuriating renaming in history. Did they not understand the concept of a pun?!


catjuggler t1_j5z4uow wrote

I see it as a continuation of the pun. Clarkville was worse- yuck. Pizza was good though- haven't been there in years so no idea of the current state


jbphilly t1_j5z9pfr wrote

Clarkville is just a terrible name. I haven't eaten there since pre-covid though so not sure how good the place is nowadays.


blue-and-bluer t1_j5ziqmm wrote

I grew up eating Wurst House hoagies. I was horrified when they changed the name to Best House, ruining the delightful pun.


jbphilly t1_j5ykj9h wrote

Now I need to go to Clarkville for first time since covid, just to see this historic site.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5vrcz5 wrote

Unless I’m mistaken, the colIapse was between Pine and Osage and only affected porches/cars not homes. The CVS block has never had homes on the east side as it was formerly the Clark estate and then Penn’s Divinity school. The west side was the Burnham estate as of 1899. My 1905 map stops at spruce, so I can’t tell what happened afterwards.

I live nearby and have never heard of anyone’s basement flooding between Spruce and Baltimore on 43rd. Keep in mind the collapse meant they had to rebuild the terra-cotta pipe in large areas. That said, if the city doesn’t regularly clean out the catch basins at Spruce and 43rd, the flooding is terrible. Over a foot-deep pond. I could imagine that getting into Cafe Pho Saigon and the underground apartments on the north-west corner.

My house is fairly close to 43rd and Spruce and I have zero structural issues; however I’ve noticed that my concrete basement floor has lifted in several areas over the last 13 years. Definitely moisture underneath.


jbphilly t1_j5vxfia wrote

I don't know which Pine/Osage collapse you're talking about. Not one by 43rd Street for sure - all the houses around there are original AFAIK. But yeah, the low-lying corners of 43/Spruce and 43/Baltimore are for sure big flooding zones.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5vykcr wrote

Hmmmm…I’ll have to see if I can find info on it. I went to lecture at University of the Sciences about the Mill Creek about 15 years ago. I may be confusing the collapse on Sansom between 43rd and 44th with the smaller one on 43rd. Will try to look into it later.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j601nru wrote

The more I look into it, the less I can find about what I wrote about, so now I’m questioning if that actually happened. Maybe my memory is jumbled, but I swear there was a collapse south of Spruce on 43rd that took out a bunch of porches and some cars. One little girl fell in but was rescued.

Oh well. I am glad to see it doesn’t run under my house though.


am_pomegranate t1_j5wa3nf wrote

I'm assuming that was also the cause of the worshipped sinkholes?


jbphilly t1_j5wdcls wrote

Sure was. And 3.5 years later (holy shit I can't believe it's been that long) the pavement is also crumbling away like crazy in that spot, once again.


am_pomegranate t1_j5wez4c wrote

Yeah, wasn't the Big Sinkhole like the third in a span of two years


mrhariseldon890 t1_j5vhw98 wrote

The sewer that carries Mill Creek collapsed in the 50s and took like two blocks of 50th and Parrish with it.

It is also the reason the El does not continue underground all the way to 69th St. They couldn't figure out how to safely tunnel under it.


Amadeum t1_j5vixtx wrote

Well, you learn something new every day


mrhariseldon890 t1_j5vmqwq wrote

You can see the tunnel they started back in the 30s or 40s if you sit on the left side of westbound MFL trains right before the 44th street portal. Its blink and you'll miss it.


catjuggler t1_j5xpyy8 wrote

Thanks I always wondered about that and just assumed it was to save money in less dense (but still dense) areas


CommunicationTime265 t1_j5vl0dq wrote

God bless ya if ya can afford to buy a house in that area


jedilips t1_j5vudzs wrote

you can thank the Ivy League neighbors for that... all of those well paid professors, academics, and medical folks gotta live somewhere.


mikewarnock t1_j5vvlei wrote

I believe Penn did, and might still, have some sort of program for staff and faculty to buy houses in the area. I think it was special loans with favorable terms.


jbphilly t1_j5vwm03 wrote

They've had to expand it westward, as now the original area Penn was trying to gentrify has become entirely unaffordable to buy in if you aren't upper-upper-middle-class at least.


Astrogrover t1_j5wn3am wrote

Penn and Drexel both have housing assistance programs for faculty and staff. They have different regions. Penn's is a five year forgivable loan for up to $7500 that prevents the property from ever being used as a rental in the future. Can be used for purchase or renovations. Drexel is a five year forgivable loan for up to 15000, or 5000 for renovations.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5ycu0q wrote

It’s literally going back to it’s origin. My house had maid’s quarters on the 4th floor. Average Joes didn’t live in 9-bedroom homes.

For the record, houses on my block sold for under $200k in 2001. I’ve lived here for 25 years, and I could have purchase my whole block for what the city is claiming my house is currently worth. Luckily, we bought in 2010, when the market bottomed out.


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5vodtz wrote

What the hell could a house in West Philly built over a creek possible cost?


jbphilly t1_j5vwgg8 wrote

Upwards of $750k easy


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5vwnkg wrote

WHAT?!?! And cant walk your dog around the block? No thanks.


jbphilly t1_j5vwquk wrote

What are you even talking about?


timory t1_j5ww6e9 wrote

lol this guy hasn't come west of the schuylkill in 20 years is what


jbphilly t1_j5wxjbq wrote

Or inside the city limits more likely


NonIdentifiableUser t1_j5w67h5 wrote

Haven’t you heard? The entirety of the 4th largest city in the country is a war zone. Duh.


[deleted] t1_j5vr3o7 wrote



squee_bastard t1_j5wdjjh wrote

Used to live in that neighborhood 20+ years ago and hearing this blows my mind. When I lived at 48th and Pine in 2000 there were a ton of abandoned properties around me. I can remember an entire block that had apartment buildings on both sides that were burned out and boarded up.


8_Foot_Vertical_Leap t1_j5ybmo3 wrote

There are still pockets of that around, it's pretty block-by-block. But by and large, it's getting gentrified af. Especially around Clark Park / bordering the penn campus, it's getting tough to find anything that isn't approaching $1mil.


squee_bastard t1_j5yvj8t wrote

I left in 2004 and it’s amazing to see how much has changed since then. If i knew then what i know now I would have bought property back then and not moved to NYC but c’est la vie.


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5zseya wrote

It all looks very nice but you'd have to be a shut-in.
Of the almost 60 neighborhoods/areas of Philly its top 10 in crime.
Not at all worth what is being said.


CommunicationTime265 t1_j5voui7 wrote

It wouldn't surprise me if it costs a fortune


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5vqf27 wrote

If it's a penny over 18k it's too much.


CommunicationTime265 t1_j5vtngd wrote

I very much doubt it would be even close to that. Most homes in that area are going for 500k.


CathedralEngine t1_j5wdf9l wrote

Easily. I was living in a house on 44th right by Baltimore 17 years ago and decided to check the property records. The landlord bought it in the low 100s in the mid-90s, and the house was valued at close to 400k less than a decade later.


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5vwqwf wrote

Who in the hell is paying that to be a hermit?


8_Foot_Vertical_Leap t1_j5yb4kp wrote

Buddy I'm not thr biggest fan of west philly, or cities in general, but if you think west philly is some sort of dangerous bombed out hellhole, you obviously haven't been here in decades, or possibly ever.

Specifically the area being discussed here is one of the nicest parts of town there is. People jogging and pushing strollers. Old ladies on porches. Kids playing in the street. And yes, people walking their dog. I can't think of a time I've ever felt legitimately unsafe here.

The real estate prices are far too high, I'll give you that, but that's almost exclusively compared to the shoebox-level of square footage you get in most of these rowhomes, especially if you have or want to start a family.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j5yd7rb wrote

LOL, my kid literally goes out on their own or with friends all the time. As an elementary school student. Our block is safer than Rittenhouse according to crime stats. Penn police are here in less than 5 minutes if I need them.

You’re fucking delusional.


StevenFromPhilly t1_j5zv67g wrote

Oof. Must have a lot of kids.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j6014yr wrote

I don’t. Not sure what your point is. Is it that I have sex with a woman? Is that what freaks you out?


StevenFromPhilly t1_j601a36 wrote

I meant you must have kids to spare. You knew that though.


GoldenMonkeyRedux t1_j601wdf wrote

No, I didn’t because you really suck at this. There hasn’t been a physical assault nearby my home in over 10 years.

Just admit you so t know a damn thing about Spruce Hill.


CroatianSensation79 t1_j5vs2sq wrote

It’s changed a lot in this part of West Philly. It’s gotten nicer and more expensive. No lie.


all4whatnot t1_j5vz02i wrote

After the sinking homes of Logan fiasco in the 80-90s the USGS put out a topo map with an overlay of “probable” and “possible” fill on two quad maps comprising parts of Philly. These fills coincide with buried streams. It’s public info. Also parts of our suburbs are underlain by limestone which can cause sinkholes - geology maps are also public info. Check both of these before you buy a home.


Alpacalypse84 t1_j5wapad wrote

The lot that became the community garden at 44th and Locust was appropriated by residents of a local hippie house because it couldn’t be developed due to the creek.

Source: I was one of the residents of that house.


CathedralEngine t1_j5wdmff wrote


We’ve probably met.


Alpacalypse84 t1_j5wdweg wrote

Yep. My roommates at the time appropriated the lot and established it. One of the more commune-y houses in Omar territory.

I keep running into people I’ve met here. The name Sun Temple mean anything to you?


Fevaprold t1_j5ycuhe wrote

There was a house there back in the 1990s. It was noticeably crooked. It looked like it was going to fall down.

Sometime between 1993 and 2009, it had to be torn down.


cheeky_poetry t1_j5wfxzg wrote

I lived just up the street!

Nothing to do with Mill Creek, but the bathtub on the third story of our house definitely fell through the ceiling one summer.


User_Name13 t1_j5vz3ea wrote

A lot of the city is built over various brooks, streams, and creeks.

It's also where Overbrook gets its name from, cuz the train station is literally over a brook.

The city put a lot of streams and creeks into pipes when they were building the sewage system.


doublestoddington t1_j5wpax4 wrote

The station is also the beginning of the encapsulation so if you walk just north of it you can see where the stream goes under and, in theory, walk underground along Mill Creek, beneath this damaged home, to the Schuylkill at the intersection of 42nd and 43rd.


libananahammock t1_j5wew0z wrote

Greater Philadelphia Geo History Network

This is a great site that has the modern day google map of Philadelphia but on the side you can click a number of different years to have a historical map on top of the modern map. I use it all the time as a genealogist that specializes in this area but it’s also a good tool for stuff like OP is mentioning like former bodies of water and also stuff like former cemeteries, former factories (to see if crazy chemicals might be in the ground) and other maybe cool maybe not so cool stuff lol


ad-astra-per-aspirin t1_j5woer0 wrote

my architect/urban planner friend from Portugal was visiting not long ago and told me all about Mill Creek and the activism around it since the 80s. He went and spent hours there. I had absolutely no idea about the history.


quoimeme t1_j5w7s6x wrote

Just had to check if my house at 53 and Woodland was safe. Big phew.


DuvalHeart t1_j5wl6ne wrote

It's crazy how common this is in American cities. We just don't think about how many streams feed our rivers.

And how they are often still there, just covered up.


P_Duggan_Creative t1_j5vi305 wrote

I'd have thought 46th was up the hill enough to not have creek issues.


kingintheyunk OP t1_j5vnxjv wrote

Apparently not. Check out this map of the overlay. The house I saw was in the circle.


jbphilly t1_j5vwpav wrote

Looks more like it might be a tributary of the main Mill Creek? Either way, same issue applies I guess.


KFCConspiracy t1_j5yww80 wrote

All I'm saying is Frank Lloyd Wright builds a house with a creek in it and everyone celebrates it, and it's a tourist attraction. You get a house with a creek in West Philly, and all of the sudden, it's a problem. People are so unappreciative of our homegrown modern urban architecture.


jimsinspace t1_j5wsuoz wrote

When shopping for homes in philadelphia always check old maps just in case of old water ways and scary old cemeteries. Lived at 43rd and Baltimore years ago and Mill creek 100% returned whenever tropical storms or hurricanes rolled through. You just can’t change the shape of the land that easy and water will always flow where it had always flowed.


Hoyarugby t1_j5x6t4z wrote

That's what happened to the "Logan Triangle" in north philly (if you were ever browsing google maps and wondered why there were randomly a bunch of completely empty blocks with a full street grid. Except there the creek that had been there (40 feet deep in places) was not only filled in, but filled in with coal ash which is basically the worst possible landfill material - it's not at all dense, erodes easily, and is both flammable and creates flammable gas


martinkelley t1_j5w8vgz wrote

I grew up in Wingohocking Street as a toddler, over the creek of the same name, the source of the Logan sinking houses. And I lived on 45th across from Clark Park ages ago: there wasn’t a flat surface in the place and there were missing gaps in the row from houses that had disappeared. It looks like most of the row has now been torn down and replaced with new houses that will presumably now start settling. I know there were gaps further north along Mill Creek that were the victims of gas explosions arising from leaks caused by the settling.


Uwogymnst t1_j5wgl8r wrote

Does that mean houses right there could collapse or just not a good/safe long term buy?


kingintheyunk OP t1_j5yufoi wrote

It means there is added risk that buyers should be aware of. Up for the buyer to evaluate if the risk is worth it


Stunning_Move7375 t1_j5wjvd4 wrote

Always go with a local realtor who knows the neighborhood. If you're looking at multiple neighborhoods, don't be afraid to have multiple realtors. Never waive the inspection, and don't be afraid to ask the neighbors what they think of the location.


zachus t1_j5wv72j wrote

I used to live at 43rd and Baltimore and half the house was a foot lower than the other half because it settled into the underground creek. Imagine navigating those stairs while drunk!


USSBigBooty t1_j5x4i4j wrote

Yeah, guys, do yourselves a favor, and go into the basement and inspect the joists. Was in a house weekend before last and I think five had serious rot, and three were completely eaten away by termites. Doing your own due diligence with a flashlight and your hands or a screwdriver can save you from even making it to the offer/inspection stage.


Delfiasa t1_j5wfwbt wrote

It’s not hard to look at a historic map of the city and see where houses were built over creeks. There are houses that flood on the west side of northern liberties/old Kensington for this reason.


HyenaPowerful8263 t1_j5wgofi wrote

I’m an agent whose done many sales in west Philly. If you are buying in the catchment; refer to a map of the creeks. After what just happened in parts of SF built over a similar creek system; people need to know the risks.


nolandeluca t1_j5x1iou wrote

Wut... There are tons of creeks buried below our city, once an area expansion they close up the creek and incorporate it into the sewer system. It's quite a good read if you have the time. Also with Philly look into the trash pile homes, many collapse.


eva-geo t1_j5y3nmg wrote

When I’m doubt call geophysics in they can run a few different scans depending on the results can tell you if your at risk of a sink hole.


BlondeOnBicycle t1_j5y52py wrote

Also check out it will tell you a lot about your risk of flood because of subtle topography, old water sources, and more.


uptheirons726 t1_j5ysoea wrote

Why would anyone deliberately want to buy a house in west philly?


blue-and-bluer t1_j5zjdnm wrote

Dude what the fuck are you even talking about; that’s one of the most desirable sections of the city now.


uptheirons726 t1_j5zrwu2 wrote

Jesus relax dude. I just always associate west philly with the hood.


blue-and-bluer t1_j5zsdoa wrote

Yeah, which is not only super offensive (“the hood?” Really?) but shows your lack of knowledge of the city…

Ps am not a dude.


uptheirons726 t1_j6005fd wrote

Jeez if you get offended by someone calling somewhere the hood, which is was for the longest time, I can't imagine how bunched your panties get over something actually offensive. Sorry I'm not well versed in Philadelphia's up and coming neighborhoods. I moved to NJ a few years ago.

Ps, everyone is a dude.


blue-and-bluer t1_j6046us wrote

West Philly has been desirable for the last 20 years. So moving to NJ a few years ago is not much of an excuse.

Next time maybe don’t comment if you don’t know shit.

Have a great day.


havpac2 t1_j5yxkze wrote

I mean the city was built on top of a swamp. I saw a map some where that showed all the old streams vs what’s left. And what was capped

Some one probably posted it (I didn’t read all the comment)

One day Philly will return to its original swamp lands . And we will be gone


zac987 t1_j5wh872 wrote

Uhhhh yeah that house is going to be a sinkhole in 50 years or less.


kingintheyunk OP t1_j5wixmv wrote

Crazy thing is the houses on both sides of this one have sold for high amounts within the last few years. I wonder if the owners are even aware of the potential issues.


mealsharedotorg t1_j5wkzs4 wrote

As someone who is less than a block from where you were looking, and planning to move this year, you're giving me anxiety.


AbsentEmpire t1_j5wi07n wrote

It's pretty crazy if you Google a map of buried streams in the city.

I heard there was a movement among cites to daylight these streams again, probably not a bad idea to start considering here.