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InterminableAnalysis t1_j7ryr4n wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Judith Butler: their philosophy of gender explained by Necessary_Tadpole692

>never getting over the lost of a loved one

The point Butler is making is not about a person never healing. The argument is that if the person who is lost (say person A) is a part of the identity of the person who has lost (say person B) then person B undergoes a change in identity. You're right to say that healing is to be considered on an individual basis, but if a person loses any part of their identity then they are by definition no longer exactly the same person.

>Butler saying that gender is performative is kind of a scream; it’d be like me telling my doctor — “you’re not really a doctor, medicine is performative”. Of a prisoner. — you’re not really a prisoner — Incarceration is performative

Butler doesn't contrast reality and performativity. Their theory of performativity only contrasts a certain kind of reality (that of original and stable reality) to performativity. A closer analogy would be saying "you are not essentially a doctor, but have become one through your training".

>Finally if her theory of intersectionality means that Beyoncé lacks something I have because despite being fabulously wealthy Beyoncé also intersects with being black. — that’s a bunch of non-sense

Intersectionality generally analyzes the way that various social statuses come to affect the way people are seen and treated. You're right that Beyonce is wealthy, but intersectionality would precisely address her wealth. What kind of social privileges do people get for being wealthy? How are black people perceived? How are black, wealthy people perceived and treated? One major misunderstanding that people have about intersectional analyses is that they tend to think "privilege" means "a property which makes a person's life always easy and good", and really all it means is "the lack of some kind of social barrier or source of detrimental treatment", which may be rather trivial or may be very important, but is always to be analyzed contextually.

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[deleted] t1_j7s1b74 wrote

Thank you for responding to my post. I appreciate the nuance you provided with my first two arguments but we’re probably not going to see eye to eye on Beyoncé

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InterminableAnalysis t1_j7s319v wrote

I hear you, but I should make it clear that I'm not making any claims about Beyonce in particular, only reporting how intersectional analyses would approach the situation. The details are much more fine-grained in those analyses, and the authors performing them often have some other justificatory arguments, and that just won't all fit into a reddit comment.

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harlottesometimes t1_j7sf4dt wrote

If you had exactly as much money and exactly as much fame as Beyonce but you weren't the same skin color as Beyonce, would people treat you exactly the same as Beyonce?

I propose they wouldn't.

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imdfantom t1_j7tj1f1 wrote

True, but I propose that:

If you had exactly as much money and exactly as much fame as Beyonce and you had the exact same skin color as Beyonce, and looked exactly like beyonce.

In fact even if you were a carbon copy of beyonce in all measurable aspects except that you aren't beyonce, you still wouldn't be treated exactly the same.

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harlottesometimes t1_j7tjfgb wrote

>I propose that even two people with the same skin color would be treated differently even if they were exact twins

How much different would that exact twin be treated if she had a different skin color?

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imdfantom t1_j7tjhfx wrote

Who knows? Could be more could be less

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harlottesometimes t1_j7tjker wrote

>nuh uh. It's racism to talk about race.

Butler's point about intersectionality is that everybody with that skin color knows.

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[deleted] t1_j7tjrpf wrote

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