DasAllerletzte t1_j8rea3z wrote on February 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM

Reply to comment by HippyHitman in Free Will Is Only an Illusion if You Are, Too by greghickey5

I’d say, you can adapt.
And also consider non-measurable phenomena like other peoples feelings or reactions.
You can prioritize.

Recently I wanted to get §thing.
Then I started to weigh wether I truly need §thing and if I can afford it too.

Such decisions would require a ton of code engineering to implement.

HippyHitman t1_j8rf9hn wrote on February 16, 2023 at 12:35 PM

>I’d say, you can adapt.

Sure, but what about a machine that can alter its own programming? If it’s not acting with free will when it adapts, then those adaptations aren’t free will.

>And also consider non-measurable phenomena like other peoples feelings or reactions.

They may not be measurable, but they can be observed and estimated. That’s how you do it, after all.

>You can prioritize.

This one machines are already great at. Probably better than us. The amount of prioritization that happens every microsecond in order to make modern computers run would fry our brains.

>Such decisions would require a ton of code engineering to implement.

Sure, and that’s my argument. We’re just extremely complex machines, so the reasoning is obfuscated to the point that it gives the illusion of free will. But if we could actually analyze our minds and thought mechanisms I don’t see why it would be any different from a computer program, and I don’t see where there’s room for free will.

frnzprf t1_j8w3ow1 wrote on February 17, 2023 at 10:58 AM

> We’re just extremely complex machines, so the reasoning is obfuscated to the point that it gives the illusion of free will.

That's interesting. You say you have an illusion of free will, but you have seen through it. I don't even have the illusion of free will. I just have a will, which is inherently subjective, so it can't be an illusion.

Maybe historically free will meant something different then how I'd define it today. Maybe "someone is free to act according to their will". (Maybe not that though. I'm not sure.) A judge said "I'm punishing you, because you acted on free will, i.e. you weren't directly coerced by other peoples wills."

Then over time the meaning of free will evolved to something like "will, at least partially independent of everything", but people still claim to believe in it, because they are thinking of the older, pragmatic definition.

dbx999 t1_j8rw2b1 wrote on February 16, 2023 at 2:52 PM

The more complex and nuanced the situation and decision making becomes the more convincing that the choice is the product of our inner self. We retcon our decisions as being products of free will. We ride a roller coaster of a life and think the whole time we’re steering the thing while it’s on a track.