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PiersPlays t1_jas9i1a wrote

Reply to comment by GsTSaien in Our emotional experiences reveal facts about the world in the same way our sensory experiences do. Trusting in either requires a leap of faith to some degree. by IAI_Admin

From a scientific perspective, the world as you experience it is unambiguously made up by your brain. There's no directly experiencing the world. Only taking the electrical and chemical inputs from your sensory organs and interpreting them to create a model of what the world most likely is. It is a flawed and imperfect guess at reality based on the best available data. That is why illusions exist.

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Thelonious_Cube t1_jatyzpf wrote

> There's no directly experiencing the world.

You say that as if there is some possible world where we experience it "directly" and our current world falls short somehow.

That's a pretty odd view - how much more "directly" could we experience the world?

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platoprime t1_jat33ct wrote

>It is a flawed and imperfect guess at reality based on the best available data. That is why illusions exist.

And persistent objective reality is why you can test and find illusions even though they deceive your senses.

> is unambiguously made up by your brain.

Unless you wanna fit the universe inside your brain you're limited to your model but that's very different from external world skepticism.

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twoiko t1_jatagwk wrote

>And persistent objective reality is why you can test and find illusions even though they deceive your senses.

Interesting, I wasn't aware there was proof of what objective reality is like to compare to, other than comparing to other flawed models.

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platoprime t1_jatfwby wrote

Interesting I wasn't aware I said there was proof of what objective reality is like to compare to something other than models.

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twoiko t1_jatgp6z wrote

Then what did you mean by that quote? Are you simply assuming there is an objective reality?

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platoprime t1_jatgzqx wrote

What would proof of objective reality look like to you?

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twoiko t1_jath72t wrote

I don't know that there is such a thing, that's why I ask

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platoprime t1_jathn4p wrote

There is no such thing because you could always be in the Matrix or whatever. It's a stupid thing to take seriously and I doubt many people do.

Let me know when "you" stop paying your bills because objective reality isn't provable. You should check out the incompleteness theorem if you're interested in unprovable truths.

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twoiko t1_jatitdx wrote

I pay my bills because evidence supports the idea that it's what keeps me warm and dry, but that's still a leap of faith I'm making, I don't actually know it to be true.

I know all about the incompleteness theorem, I'm not sure what you mean by unprovable truths, maybe my definition of truth is too rigorous for this conversation.

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platoprime t1_jatj4u3 wrote

It is not a "leap" to accept that paying bills keeps you warm and dry. There might be a infinitesimal sliver of faith required but that is the level of faith required with all truths.

If you know all about incompleteness then you know incompleteness is the fact that we cannot construct a formal logical system that can prove all true statements.

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GsTSaien t1_jas9wdi wrote

It is a slightly flawed interpretation of reality, not a guess. And we use the scientifc method to measure things, even obvious ones, to better understand the world. Our perspective is not limited at all, illusions are fun and they show our brains can be tricked, but we are still pretty damn good at experiencing the world.

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twoiko t1_jasy0oa wrote

What metric are you using to determine how close our experience is to objective reality?

Edit: I'm asking in good faith.

I've never heard that we can find the difference between our experience and objective reality beyond comparing our personal perspectives with each other.

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