Submitted by IAI_Admin t3_y6czml in philosophy
Reply to comment by drdildamesh in The benefits of doing nothing | An overactive 'life drive' endlessly seeks expansion, inevitably leads to burnout, and drains us of the energy needed to truly progress. Finding the time to do nothing is essential to reassessing who we are and who we want to be. by IAI_Admin
Find a job that requires minimum effort that pays enough to have an easy life. I already have that, but find doing nothing boring yet doing anything feels pointless as well. It's quite the daily struggle for me.
I'm at the same point in my life. Each successive job has gotten progressively easier and more lucrative, to the point I don't do much more than show up and occasionally find answers to questions as they come in. And I don't really want for anything more challenging anymore. I burned out several positions ago, after I was given far too much responsibility compared to my level of experience, and I haven't been able to recover. I'm constantly daydreaming about a cabin in the woods w/limited remote work. Maybe in a few more years.
I've always worked jobs that had managers up my ass, high workloads and high stress levels until I got into the tech industry. My job is so much easier and less stressful now, it almost feels like I'm cheating. I keep getting kudos, while also working much less than ever before. It's amazing.
Can you elaborate more on your job? I see posts like this making tech seem like a dream but never any specific examples or proof. I have no idea how to get started in it and I'm starting to think it's a joke
It depends on the role you have. Being an engineer is stressful! But other roles are less stressful. A role like a solutions engineer requires the technical knowledge but also the ability to easily present & talk to other people. In that role your day isn't necessarily 8 hours. Maybe you have 2 hour-long demos, an hour or two of prep and notes, maybe another hour meeting (all done by Zoom in your house) and you're done for the day. Add in the fact that nobody's up your ass with constant needs and demands like they are in admin or customer service.
You explain your software, show your customer how to enable the features they need for their use case, and then answer any follow up questions. You are a RESOURCE that everyone is thrilled to see.
>Can you elaborate more on your job? I see posts like this making tech seem like a dream but never any specific examples or proof. I have no idea how to get started in it and I'm starting to think it's a joke
I was forced years ago (about ~13 years ago) to switch fields entirely to a backup career -- IT support. I blame the Great Recession, but also capitalism in general and the near overnight collapse of print-based marketing in the mid/late 00s. While I was saddened by my inability to earn a decent, reliable income in my previous field that I was extremely good at, IT (and subsequently basic programming work using PHP+MySQL [database]) has allowed me to have reliable jobs that have provided where so many other fields have not.
I'm in my 40s now, and made this pivot in my early 30s, so it can be done. I am by no means a great programmer. On a scale of 1-10 I am a 4, but I can do enough with databases and PHP+HTML coding to make interactive website-based programs (that can run locally, on a user's computer, w/o need for the internet) to essentially automate many data-heavy, manual-entry tasks.
Not all IT jobs are good though - I've had several where I am looked down upon and treated like a cog in the machine, and valued very little. However, I have had multiple jobs over the past 13 years where I have been able to outright work remotely, because ultimately my jobs (at these remote points) were more about delivering X on Y basis/schedule rather than being busy+available every second of the day.
In the IT jobs where I was mistreated/micromanaged, there was no room for anything - I was either a generic tech support person behind the emails or a voice behind the tech support line phoneline.
I'm unsure if I could cut it as a genuine programmer. I never received the proper training in a 4 yr or higher Computer Science program. I have picked up a good amount and understand the concepts behind many things programming-wise, but age 35 onward I sorta lost most ambition and desire to continue learning -- afterall, I had already done this once before and had to abandon my career.
So I'm not a software engineer per se -- I'm more of a generic IT support guy (understand how computers/operating systems work -- I dislike server support though) and basic programmer (I don't mess with stuff beyond PHP+MySQL, though I could if necessary I guess) and decent data analyst (I can do reporting, work with tables of sales/order/inventory data, etc.).
>I have no idea how to get started in it
You at a minimum have to understand how a computer works - not every physical aspect of it, but the concept of the operating system, programs, installing programs+drivers, what users expect out of software interactions, how dumb users can be when interacting with programs and data, etc. If you dislike this or just don't get it, anything IT support related or programming related is utterly pointless.
For example, I view cars as an appliance that get me from point A to B. I have no desire to understand horsepower or electrical systems or how the engine or brake lines work or anything beyond oil changes, filling gas, tire replacement, checking fluid/air. Can I use a car? yes. Could I use a car to do another job? yes. Should I ever consider being a mechanic or even oil change serviceman? NO.
Regarding education, I got a cheapo community college AAS in Computer Science ~12 years ago and an equally cheapo online Bachelors ~10 years ago in Information Technology. I didn't even need the BS in IT really as online teaching for me was "meh" but it helped in getting past HR departments a few times.
>"requires the technical knowledge but also the ability to easily present & talk to other people."
The best IT/coding jobs I've had are ones where I only have to talk with maybe a half dozen people at most and then beyond them saying the bare minimum needed each week or month, they largely leave you alone to get from here to there. The worst IT jobs I've had are ones where I have to interact with people frequently each and every day -- the worst ones are via phone-based calling. Strangely enough, if you get a tech job where face to face interactions are the main method of talking, even if you do have to interact with them, it isn't so bad. For me, I've noticed the worst tech jobs are where most communication is strictly done via email/messaging apps and is frequent each day. It dehumanizes you.
>"You are a RESOURCE that everyone is thrilled to see."
Over the past 13 years I've only kept certain jobs because of my basic PHP+MySQL abilities - I've created little programs or utilities that outright make other people's jobs easier. I would advise you to pick up something similar and if you like a certain job and wish to keep it, find a way to slip in some sort of custom script for the HR department or an important manager that cuts down a task they do in real, measurable ways. It's not guaranteed job security, but they'll see if you make their job easier, you may make others' jobs easier, and reduce stress/complexity overall. And you don't even have to be an expert or find a solution for everything - I frequently say "I don't know or I can't probably do that, but I'll look into it." But most people are excited by even the smallest programming things, and they can be ridiculously simple. But they may give you a bit of security and flexibility overall.
Bro that was deep ! Thanks !
Core engineering jobs are no joke. I've met my fair share of burnt out software engineers, that it almost seems like a rite of passage.
There are some roles that are less demanding, some more, though nothing can be generalised.
Wow, thank you for the detailed reply. I'm 26, had a career in construction and realized it wasn't for me. I've always been a little nerdy with tech just with video games and stuff but never hopped into it as a profession.
I don't care about the big money people always talk about with tech all I want is decent benefits and pay but most importantly work life balance. I wouldn't mind coming in a few days. I'm learning I just can't do full time, at work jobs. Data analyst seems like what would fit me best and I've been planning on looking into SQL
Solutions engineer in my experience IS customer support, at a high level. My jobs in that area have always come with a pile of 500 tickets underneath the day to day.
IMO being a software engineer is less stressful, provided you work fast when you do work
Fair enough. That's not my experience, but, every company has their own requirements for the role. Some SEs are required to do a lot more than others. Like any role, vet the company and the role before accepting.
True that, and for reference my industry is healthcare software, so software moves slow and missed issues can mean patients get harmed at industrial scale... Could easily see solution engineer roles being more laid back in industries that don't have lives on the line.
Just goes to show how title is borderline meaningless in some cases. I've seen "developer" roles where people don't need to know how to read code and "engineer" titles where the only thing being engineered is how to tactfully tell a user they pressed the wrong button.
+1 to your advice, vet all potential jobs/companies because they have a lot of leeway to paint a picture!
I was in the Healthcare industry before I pivoted to tech and you're right. It is slow and painful to get things done and there's no room for error because it's people's lives. Makes sense to me that the pressure is much higher in that role! Are you working with Eric?
Honestly I believe it’s more about the company than the job itself. From my chemistry class most have ended up in similar jobs yet most say it’s unbearable. I earn a little less than most but am absolutely loving work. After weekends I can barely wait to get started again.
I’m learning so much every day, got tons of freedom and everyone is basically on the same level (no powerplay or anything). Also there’s always someone having your back no matter what.
The older I get the more I realize that this is really what plays into a good career. I've had horrible jobs that take a lot away from my life but the coworkers were amazing, managers were relaxed, and it almost made me excited to go in and deal with the horribleness lol
I was going to ask this exact same thing.
That's good to hear! I'm slowly working toward a similar track as well. Currently just doing shift work, mainly so I have time at work to finish my Masters in Cybersecurity, finish Sec+ etc. I want a job like you described, where I'm simply afforded agency to produce results w/minimal oversight. It's encouraging to see how many cyber jobs are WFH, as I'm planning to start a family soon and I don't want those kids to have to deal with an absent or distracted father like I sometimes dealt with.
Oh, and also so I can get rid of my stupid car I'm currently forced to own because oil and car companies successfully lobbied for the destruction of almost all public transit in this country.
Dang. I was JUST thinking that.
That is crazy to see that someone who also saw this post at this point in their life makes a comment that sounds like something I would be commenting in here. We’re about the same age, I think.
How do you fill your days dealing with the ying and yang of that kind of lifestyle? New hobbies? Reading? TV? Side hustles?
I deal with that constantly, accepting that nothing is okay, and then what? I don’t want to stare at a wall for extended periods, what’s beneficial, how well should I be using my time? Crazy.
Great minds think alike, hah. It's honestly a bit of a struggle to force myself to engage when I know deep down that the 'normalcy' of, say, the mid-10s is probably gone forever. That we're headed toward an existential abyss and I'm powerless to alter that trajectory.
At the same time, I also know passively doomscrolling social media is doing me no favors. Sometimes I just shut it all down, grab the dogs and go hiking on my work breaks, or just wander around DC aimlessly.
I want to get in to minor woodworking, like shadowboxes, small resin pours etc. And I want to finally learn to use one of my Arduinos to set up an automated irrigation system for gardening next spring.
Beyond that, it's a lot of what you mentioned - I've made a conscious effort to go watch classic films I always used to pretend I'd seen. I play a lot of simulators on PC, like Cities: Skylines, where I can make towns in which I'd want to live. I go through spells of obsessively playing Rocket League still, even though I've probably maxed out my abilities in Diamond I. Euro Truck Sim 2 and American Truck Sim are great for zenning out and just enjoying the ride.
Lastly, something I've been thinking a lot about, is getting back into music production. It was the only thing that really brought me joy when I was a teenager dealing w/depression, and I probably pumped out around 100 crude tracks between 16 and 19. But now I'm mid-30s, haven't produced anything in about 5 years and I can't explain why. It always gave me a sense of pride and wonderment to see a project through, send it off to my musician buddies and hear their positive feedback. Plus, if I do have kids, I want to be able to show them who I am, and not just leave it a mystery. Something tangible and personal, even if the music itself ages horribly. Hah. I think that's what I'll focus on next.
Cheers for the inspiration!
Haha holy smokes man, sounds like we were brothers born on opposite sides of the country😂.
The escape during the day to nature, I go for rides personally. I got into woodwork and other similar projects in the last little bit as well as arduinos and other mechatronic based hobbies too!
Films and artsy anime that friends have recommended was what I was filling time with. Spirited away and Cowboy Bepop and stuff like that that I still haven’t finished. Roller coaster tycoon has been good, I had the old remake on my phone for a while.
That’s hilarious that diamond is your ceiling too, my buddy and I have been trying to break into diamond 3 for months now.
I haven’t messed with FL Studio since high school though personally. Sorry, don’t mean to go on, just your first comment resonated so much with me, and now hearing that it sounds like we’re very similar people is even more funny.
If you ever want to chat or mess around in Rocket League DM me! I’d love to chat and see what else we have in common and haven’t tried. Maybe we can bounce new hobbies or ideas off of each other. 👍
What do you do!? Sounds ideal.
Find a job that requires minimum effort that pays enough to have an easy life. I already have that
Go on....
For me it's software development. I'm sure it depends both on the person and the workplace. I've been lucky to find a place where I can work flexible hours without supervision and only completing tasks in adequate numbers matters.
I'm in the same boat; I work about 15 hours a week and have all this extra free time. I am bored and every idea I have can feel somewhat pointless. I try to create as much structure for myself but its a moving target finding the bliss point between responsibility/structure and freedom/leisure autonomy.
I have two jobs where I just sit there all day and do nothing. I work sixty hours a week and I get paid about 20 percent higher then the entry level minimum around here. Most people who start at McDonald’s are making thirteen dollars. I am making seventeen dollars at both. I also get cool fifty percent discounts on our products and the right to sample anything for free. I am exhausted at the end of every day but I am not overwhelmed at the end of the week, even though I work so much. I am saving so I can invest in the stock market. I want about thirty k. And then another thirty k to keep in Bitcoin and then another thirty for my own personal emergency fund and then I want to save for a house. Hopefully in fifteen years my house is paid off and I can retire into a part time position at one job lol 😅
What job? What country?
I work as a software developer in Finland.
Ah. Thanks.
What job is that?
For me it's software development since it fits my personality. For you it might be something else.
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