glass_superman t1_itq65as wrote on October 25, 2022 at 2:29 PM

Reply to comment by EdgyZigzagoon in Peter Singer Is the Philosopher of the Status Quo by TuvixWasMurderedR1P

It's not surprising that people would guess wrong because their basis for what counts as extreme poverty is probably inflated.

Ask those same people if they would consider themselves impoverished on $1000/year and they'd probably almost all say yes. And they'd be wrong there, too, according to the "experts".

Edit: BTW, your link is funded by the libertarian Koch brothers, for whom the current system has been wildly beneficial. How convenient for them that so much progress has been made under the system that has also made them billionaires! The countenance of your sources is dubious, dude!

VitriolicViolet t1_itsk3b0 wrote on October 26, 2022 at 12:03 AM

also forgetting the vast majority of that poverty reduction was the Chinese government lifting over 1 billion out of poverty.

remove the Chinese and suddenly the world has made minimal progress, funny how the 1 nation the West couldnt bully into submission is also the one that managed to become rich off of globalization (India went the route of allowing Western corporations to control their political parties, as did most of the 3rd world)

glass_superman t1_itsqy4r wrote on October 26, 2022 at 12:54 AM

Ah, good point!

EdgyZigzagoon t1_itq6i2x wrote on October 25, 2022 at 2:31 PM

As long as the measurement is consistent, it’s still a good measurement. If you think the threshold is too low, that makes it even more of an issue that 10% of the worlds population still falls below it, and our efforts should be focused on helping those who need help most first.

By the way, making $1000/year would put you in the top 20% in the world in income, further highlighting the need for increasing investment in global economic development. Development of strong market economies is the single biggest predictor of reducing poverty in a nation.

If you’d like to learn more about how the line is chosen and what we need to do to continue the fight against world poverty, I would encourage you to read this article: https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief

glass_superman t1_itqb7tl wrote on October 25, 2022 at 3:03 PM

>, further highlighting the need for increasing investment in global economic development. Development of strong market economies is the single biggest predictor of reducing poverty in a nation.

That's true in the neoliberal order but why must we have the neoliberal order?

Isn't that the point of this article? To search for solutions to poverty beyond the neoliberal order and not within it? Because within it we are claim success at having only 80% of the world earning less than $1000/day or whatever. That doesn't sound very successful to me at all!

EdgyZigzagoon t1_itq842d wrote on October 25, 2022 at 2:42 PM

Did you mean provenance?

I have added sources from the United Nations and New York Times which expand upon the issue, you’re right that it’s good to examine the data from multiple sources. In this case, the data is reliable and you will be able to find it yourself from many more sources if you’re still in doubt.

glass_superman t1_itq95zk wrote on October 25, 2022 at 2:50 PM

(Oops, it's still very early in my time zone. My bad!)

I still wonder if the people who had the wrong impression of the number of people in poverty also had the wrong definition of poverty. We should use measures more universal, like, "How many people per years will experience hunger as pain?" Saying that someone earning $3/day isn't in poverty doesn't speak to me at all!

EdgyZigzagoon t1_itq9xc6 wrote on October 25, 2022 at 2:55 PM

I agree with you in principle, but it’s also a massive success that the number of people with even less than that has fallen so dramatically. And obviously, $3/day means different things in different places. Ultimately, the number of people starving, the number of people who are absolutely destitute, and rates of child mortality have all dropped sharply, and that should be celebrated and the work should be continued.

I think it makes the most sense to contextualize poverty in terms of the quality of life and security that comes with alleviating it, which is what organizations who study it attempt to do far better than either of us ever could, which is why they deserve huge amounts of funding and support.

We probably agree on 80% of things at the end of the day, I just like to encourage people to be a little more optimistic because we have done great things and if we continue to work hard we can continue to make the world a better place. I have to go actually do my job now lmao, peace out.