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vagabonking t1_ivzkppu wrote

Everyone that reads this thread just got their confirmation bias fix for the day.

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johnstocktonshorts t1_ivyqlwt wrote

is this really the kinds stuff we need to post in this sub. just patting ourselves on the back for shit we already believe.

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Noaan t1_ivzojeb wrote

This is probably the type of philosophy that gets produced when philosophy has to justify itself in face of new public management. Clearly, philosophy isn't a means to another means. But philosophy faculties have to justify themselves as a means to something – such as "understanding life" or "analytic skills" – producing all this bullshit literature. It sucks.

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jakedangler t1_ivyzip1 wrote

Is being into it a prerequisite of knowing what the value of it is? Why generalize in a negative direction when everyones different. Maybe there’s a perspective subreddit that you could actually benefit from

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testearsmint t1_ivzqc4o wrote

Plus, I dunno, it's just cool to have reassurances every now and again pop up in your feed, telling you you're on the right track.

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jakedangler t1_ivzqo8q wrote

You are right I responded to this persons comments because I actually had the opposite response. I was interested to know what this post was about

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LetsOverthinkItALot t1_iw6hwpp wrote

Thinking about whether u are right on engaging with philosophy or not is a form of philosophical thinking.So i cant find a reason for not having this post there

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johnstocktonshorts t1_ivz02f4 wrote

I'm going to go to the perspective subreddit to share an article titled "why you're smart for subbing to the perspective subreddit."

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jakedangler t1_ivz0w2e wrote

A meaningful life and being smart aren’t the same motives or outcomes. You saw it one way, I’m saying it’s the wrong one

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CygnusX-1-2112b t1_ivzcx6p wrote

Honestly what I thought too.

"This just in! Thinking about life's meaning makes you want to have a meaningful life! More to come after the break!"

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threebicks t1_iw1fyqt wrote

I would not assume that. The majority of the responses in this thread are at least attempting to engage critically with this hypothesis and significant number disagree. It might not be the most interesting topic, but I don’t see too much self-congratulatory posts either. The OP might as well have used the change my mind guy meme. People took the bait.

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mycologyqueen t1_iw2oamd wrote

Well considering if wasn't just the text but a link to an event Im actually rather glad it was

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kelolpx t1_ivzu4z1 wrote

Philosophy can really mess you up.

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PM_ME_ICE_PICS t1_iw14mvm wrote

Philosophy is a gateway drug, man! Before you know it, you're whiling away your days watching kitten videos on YouTube.

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PeenieWibbler t1_iw1i255 wrote

So can the world and just existing at all :) philosophy, similar to religion in some aspects, can at least help lay a foundation for perpetual growth

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maddog367 t1_iw23vhm wrote

it’s not necessarily the philosophy that messes me up it’s the lack of ability to do anything about it.

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SloanWarrior t1_ivzbiu3 wrote

I know someone who studied philosophy who has behavioural issues. Far from living a better and more meaningful life, they've reasoned themselves into killing themselves slowly, disobeying doctor's orders, and blaming everything on the doctors.

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AnAngryBirdMan t1_ivzkj3j wrote

I think that philosophy just helps you reinforce and define your belief system in general, to live more true to your core beliefs, for better or worse. It has to be (unfortunately) pretty rare that someone reads about a philosophical concept and completely turns around on a core belief.

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CasualSky t1_iw0aybh wrote

Philosophy to some becomes more of a faith. They believe their way is correct, despite anything. They cement their ideas because people in the past have thought that way too. Once someone finds a philosophy that makes sense to them, they often dive very deep into it.

The point of philosophy, imo, is to become more open-minded and to question the nature of things out of curiosity. And this post says ‘toolkit’ because there’s more than one tool.

Taking stoicism as one branch of philosophy, it teaches you that you are the only one you can control. Accepting that can help someone cope with stress. However, someone who is always stoic and makes it the center of their opinions and identity are doing themselves a disservice. Because it closes their mind to the many tools and ideas other philosophies can give you to cope with life. One major downside to stoic philosophy is it promotes an individual mindset and discourages being vulnerable with others.

One needs to draw inspiration and thought from different sources, in order to create well-rounded critical thinking. Your friend probably found that corner of philosophy that made them feel understood and justified in the way they live. Sadly, that’s all they used it for. But the tools of philosophy remain there for anyone to find and use in many different ways.

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Icy-Performance-3739 t1_iw0eils wrote

Socrates or someone said: Freedom is the ability to change one's mind when one hears a better argument. Maybe you need to lay your case out a little better to your buddy. See if he is free.

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SloanWarrior t1_iwdwg8b wrote

Thanks, I'll probably hit him with that next time he gets particularly fixated on his definition of himself.

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Buderus69 t1_iw043k1 wrote

Counter hypothesis:

Engaging with philosophy gives you a toolkit that can help you lead a worse and less meaningful life.

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PeenieWibbler t1_iw1ie33 wrote

Why worse?

It can be good and bad. No one has to grasp at things that do not resonate with them or that don't help improve their perspective

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Buderus69 t1_ix5ag2v wrote

I will try to make a short example for a bigger thought pattern: imagine nihilism combined with the donkey paradox.

If you figure that existence is meaningless, in a sense that nothing has inherently any value, and the only way to give something subjective meaning is by choosing for it to have meaning, yet since every possibility to choose is equally meaningless you suddenly can't set yourself to choose any direction.

Like the donkey that can't choose if it wants to squelch it's thirst first or eat the hay and then starves to death, you are stuck in an endless void of not making any sensible choice for either "decision tree" to give anything meaning, and in such deteriorate into a mere observer, someone that does not participate in life and can do nothing else than be.

Trying to escape this would be meaningless, as we stated before one would find no value in trying to escape it, the baseline would not change.

Having come to such a conclusion would make it difficult if not impropable for one to get out of again, choice of improving perspective would be futile. One would have "thought" themselve into a figurative pigeon-hole.

This is just one example, there are (philosophical) thoughts that can possibly be harmful and permanently altering for a mind, like an abstract parasite that latches on and can't be removed, created by mere logic. And only a very specific set of information might help them out of this, which might be questionable if they ever find this 'key' in their lifetime, possibly being stuck with this thought-pattern till the end of their life (which in our example is even questionable if this person would even seek out such information).

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PeenieWibbler t1_ixaqsl6 wrote

I see what you're saying. It is a dilemma. To me neither the cause nor solution to that lie specifically in philosophy or stoicism, but rather in Buddhism. Existence is an illusion, none of it really matters or means anything but simultaneously it does all matter. Because what you do and how you handle it determines whether or not you will ever escape it and how much you will suffer in the meantime.

Stoics, as far as I've read, kind of touch on the existential crisis a bit, but the reality is we exist and therefore we suffer but we only suffer and only suffer so greatly because we think we exist. It can seem very convoluted and took me a long time to come around to but Buddha even said that a "dispassion for life" is one of the many steps to enlightenment and ultimately ending rebirth. Eventually you realize it is futile. You cannot escape the suffering, it is part of the world and part of nature, but you can learn and train yourself to escape your perception of suffering. There is meaning in living like this, but once again that meaning is just part of the overall illusion.

The bottom line, really, is just practice love and compassion. The rest sorts itself out but eventually most of us have to make a conscious choice to wake up, and only then do we see the illusion.

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Zephrok t1_ivzce3r wrote

No shit. Funadamentally, that is what Philosophy is for

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str8_rippin123 t1_iw0vxw7 wrote

Meh, I am very sceptical that philosophy can provide an answer to the meaning to life

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Zephrok t1_iw0xl8l wrote

Depends on what you mean by answer and meaning. It can definately help people find meaning and peace in situations they didn't have otherwise.

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IAI_Admin OP t1_ivy46c2 wrote

Rebecca Roache, Senior Lecturer in Philosophy at Royal Holloway, argues that philosophy provides us with a set of valuable strategies, tools and techniques that can be applied to real
life situations to help us lead better lives. Firstly, philosophical logic
allows us to have substantial and meaningful arguments with people, because
rather than blindly talking past people and simply pronouncing our own
position, we learn to identify the hidden assumptions and flaws in the others
argument. Secondly, in philosophy we learn to ask why ad infinitum, allowing us
to get deeper into the foundational claims that justify what someone is saying.
Thirdly, it allows you to argue via analogy, to explain why certain like
situations should be treated alike. Through exploring her personal experiences,
Rebecca Roache unpacks how these tools can be used to help us tackle the
challenges we face every day. For example, philosophy allows us to see how we
don’t see the world as it really is, we see it through a kind of subjective
lens. But this idea is also applicable to how we see ourselves. We have
deep-seated ingrained beliefs about ourselves that aren’t immediately visible
to us, but they show up in the choices we make. Using the philosophical toolkit
to examine these choice enables honest reflection on the underlying factors
that have shaped past decisions and allows us to make more free and informed
decisions going forward.

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Silveri50 t1_iw06ce8 wrote

Studying philosophy is literary version of playing with fire. You'll either conclude your life has value, or that it has absolutely none, and all kinds of anarchy in between.

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Saugeen-Uwo t1_iw0cmak wrote

Every philosophy grad I know has become a lunatic on social media pushing their beliefs. Bordering on insane

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Remon_Kewl t1_ivzzgma wrote

... philosopher says.

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YouAreSoul t1_ivznm0e wrote

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Fellatio, than are dreamt of in your horosophy.

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notworkingghost t1_ivztkpk wrote

This is basically what I used to tell my intro classes. All things being equal, those who study philosophy will be better prepared for whatever they choose to pursue.

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kuttymongoose t1_iw1d6op wrote

Sounds like something an alcoholic would say

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BernardJOrtcutt t1_ivyr6rd wrote

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MissionarysDownfall t1_ivzwuo1 wrote

Heidegger has given me a lifelong appreciation of ontological analysis of ontologies and the dialectic there in.

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SovArya t1_ivzyaf2 wrote

Having structure in thinking or a process truly helped me keep sane in these troubled times.

The if then format, basic as it is, is my go to in case of any emergency or difficult decisions.

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kevin_goeshiking t1_iw08twf wrote

It also can do the exact opposite, so who cares?

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OpportunityOk5719 t1_iw0agf5 wrote

To be Stoic on demand has saved my ass more than once.

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rtkaratekid t1_iw0cmmm wrote

Ah the classic "The most virtuous life is the life of the philosopher" cliche

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JKDSamurai t1_iw0x792 wrote

Totally agree. Every high school should have a mandatory philosophy series as part of a standard education.

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droneb t1_iw0zo3z wrote

Funny how most people concluded the inverse

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Jonp187 t1_iw1hjt1 wrote

“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬ ‭

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puddyspud t1_iw1wprr wrote

I always suggested to all my nieces and nephews that they AT LEAST take Logic 101. That class was fundamental for keeping me rational and same for these past few years.

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murillokb t1_iw23zc5 wrote

I’m confused by the comments, what is the general consensus? Philosophy good or bad?

I just want to get a feel for how people are responding, I love philosophy

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Doctor-Eleven t1_iw2aqjx wrote

I can vouch for this. Been down some rough roads in life, still walking some of those roads, and there is always a philosopher to walk with me. When I am at my lowest, Camus can beckon me to reinvent the world, and once it's reinvented, Seneca can get me refining it to it's purest stoic elements, which is especially useful when the hedonism creeps in. Wittgenstein plays the ultimate trump card, it's all games, it's all an unreliable projection of the brain, which takes me right in to the present, because that's the only game I feel I can win, to just be alive right now and move. They have all helped me in some way, they turn the noise in my head to music, well, most of them. Cioran can be a bit grim, but at least he isn't blowing smoke up your ass, he may even be the best guy for bringing you down from an edge, I need that sometimes.

I love them all, am eager for more, and without them, I would be miserable.

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waywardSara t1_iw2azz7 wrote

Just don’t make it your major in college. Study it on your own time.

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Siverra_ t1_iw2j12n wrote

Most if not all philosophers who dedicated their lives to philosophy, regret it severely near the end of their lives and become horribly depressed

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Sannitaa t1_iwaso5b wrote

Or It might be the pill for those who addicted to the pain :)

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Undinianking t1_ivzjp97 wrote

Be good do good, only by knowing what's bad.

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ClittoryHinton t1_ivymj5g wrote

Philosophy has given me the toolkit to understand why one dead white guy was more logically consistent than the dead white guy who came before him. Not sure what I’m supposed to do with this though.

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ALQatelx t1_ivynx9v wrote

I couldn't think up a more low tier bait comment if i quit my job and committed to trying full time

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ApprehensiveSoil8657 t1_ivzrymo wrote

Idk why you’re being downvoted bc this is honestly true hahahahhaa

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DracoOccisor t1_iw1ixuu wrote

Not even close. Unless you’re an undergrad or not even in academic philosophy.

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ApprehensiveSoil8657 t1_iwa37cs wrote

I am an undergrad. I didn’t mean it in a rude way it was just funny and relatable rn…

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bildramer t1_iwapelj wrote

Why do you find blatant racism "funny and relatable"?

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ApprehensiveSoil8657 t1_iwbzsms wrote

When I read the original comment it said something along the lines of, “philosophy gave me a tool box of why one white guy was more logically consistent than another” it was funny because I’m in a modern philosophy class and it resonated bc I’m literally just reading dead white guys arguments about why they think they are right. Idk how that makes me racist… it wasn’t that deep hunny. I understand the philosophy is much greater than dead white guys, and the practice in itself serves a much larger purpose, but I found the comment funny. It literally got a chuckle out of me. Chill bro.

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