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wowie6543 t1_iyuwu5s wrote

its not easy to find the relevant elements here. science is finding the dependencys of the things - their social interactons & self-constructions. So to understand the dependencys of the mind and body, u have to use all sciences youve got! So science and specially sociology includes all fields of existence. many things need more then one science to find the truth. for all biological things, u need a lot to understand it correctly & find out all movements. thats the way of science, to create the dependencys of the things to represent/reproduce and transform it correctly/efficient. So, to understand the psychology, u need philosophy, sociology, biology, neuroscience, history... u must understand how all the goals & dependencys get created and work out in the end. A consciousness isnt really the same as a puppet. so there is a lack of dependencys here. Then there are numerous problems u adress & u need to order it more, specially in a more psychoanalytic & functional way. anyway, lets learn...

  1. Yes it is possible, as it is possible to evaluate many other dispositions. But it only works, if u realize, that their is a possibility to be so. So the first problem of the doctor in the tale is, that he doesnt see the possibility that the giant is a puppet, controlled by a (maybe) self-destrcutive men. So the help can turn out to be bad because his diagnostic is bad.
  2. so here u get a bit metaphysical or should i say, chaotic. First of all, its not sure in which sense exactly Hannibal is self-destructive. So i think there is a good self-destructiveness & a bad one & u must find out how strong this drive is. u must differentiate here a bit more i think. And the problem that a puppet isnt a consciousness is very present here. If hannibal is self-destrucive, moloch is part of this structure, and its not the consciousness itself, its onyl a part of the actual consciousness, which is operating in a priority/fixiation to the unconscious wish to self-destruct. so why should there by another giant? because hannibal got another disposition (to life) and/or because the self-destrcution is bad? Why should a better constructed giant should help hannibal? the giant isnt his problem i guess. the conscoiusness is not the problem at first, its the material dependency that isnt working & leads to a disfunctional mind (un- & consciousnes isnt working properly or the whole social system isnt working properly (anymore) or he wants to find out what happens after death or maybe he isnt really self-destructive, only asocial and stupid). So, here u make a lot of premises that arent really included in the experiment at first. Moloch (as seen as consciousnes) is as conscious about hannibal as the consciousness is consciouss about our unconsciousness. u must be clear here in which way Moloch is really a consciousness or u get unprecise in the experiment. Our consciousness can be aware of our unconsciouss drives, but that doesnt mean, it can influence it to act differently. Of course you have to understand the precise interactions & contraactions of un - & consciousness. This is basic psychoanalytics. so its not very helpful to draw unclear lines here. The question if Awen should act differently with another giant & after finding out the truth about the first giant, is quite obvious & a part of the first question
  3. this is also a question of the dependencys. as moloch cant life without hannibal, it should be quite obvoius that both are depending on each other very closely & to the basics of their whole strucutre and so can be seen as one person. so their is only one dead, as hannibals core functions get damaged, all other parts of hannibal, including moloch die too. but only as a very close depending reaction. so the problem of moloch is not the real problem (of hannibal), if he really got one beside stupidity. Privacy is a matter, u must analyse alone. as privacy is nothing that really is important in the end. specially not if u want to help somebody to transform himself (heal him). as every transformation is a death of personality & a rebirth of a new personality and privacy (parts of it). Privacy is only important, if someone want to hide something from others. this is of course not helpful if u want to understand the whole beings. so privacy/secrets (from society) are part of the problem here! as we have structures, that prevent us to transform ourselfs & help us in the end to adapt to all social things. you must analyze, how privacy is part of the problem! But well sometimes, its just natural & part of getting old. As u getting old, u want to have secrets and u want to die, because nothing else makes u happy. its nothing wrong with that. only, when it depends on some failure, u can and want to transform differently. but u must be clear here. the action here dont have to be disfucntional or as symbolic as u think.
  4. Awen did everythig he was able to to help him. Its not a new problem, that help can turn out into non-help because of mistreatment. Moloch is hannibal, so hannibal/molochs death was indeed caused by a misleading helpful action & maybe set up as suicide (with a little help from his friends). thats all. for the cause, it doesnt matter why hannibal was doing it. it only matters what Awen knew. Awen knew not very much. Thats his and our all guilt, all the time with everything. But if everything is determined, its not a question of guilt, its a question of how to making it better the next time!
  5. What makes u think this is non-ethically? Because of the sucicide or the help to suicide or because the stupid idea of a curious idiot & the unwanted death & killing by his friends? Suicide is ethical if everbody thinks its good. And the unwanted death by the friends is also not unethical, because they dont know what they are doing so they dont act amoral. The only one that acts amoral, is (a part of) hannibal if he really wants to be killed by his friends. As he maybe knows, that they dont want to kill him. Maybe he also thinks, that some would help him to kill him, even if they dont want it. So the moral breach isnt big here i htink. Not really the big problem here. An 100% ethical version could be, to inform all of the experiment but make em act as they would not know. but in the end, its an ambivalent situation, where u must confront yourself with the a) wanted death, b) the wrong outcome of the experiment or/and c) the unfullfilled expectations of the townfolk. u cant make it really 100% ethical i guess, when you dont share/normalize the goals between all actors.

... continue reading down under in the reply section, due to wrong character count by reddit. The whole text is under 10000 characters but i could not post it.

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wowie6543 t1_iyuwupx wrote

  1. Moloch did not have an ethical responsibility, as he is hannibal. u could say, hannibal has an ethical responsibility to keep himself alive, but thats also questionable. as i said earlier, there is nothing unethical about suicide, if u have the right moral. Which leads us agin to the question, how strong & how exactly was the drive of hannibal structured? what are the expectations of the townfolk exactly? as long as we dont know, we cant be sure here.

  2. well it mostly teaches, that we must know a lot more of the categorys & movements we are talking about, before we make conclusions or ask new unprecise questions. this is no joke, this is as profound as it gets! un- & consciousness are interacting through a permanent rationalisation of all our goals. its a permanent conflict we are in. a permanent ethical managment to make things work. We must understand which goals and how the goals interact to understand and transform it - if needed. To know is the way to act better! this is a basic element of life! its our fate!

we act this way, because we dont know it better. we want certain things, because its the thing we think that makes us happy & we dont want other things, becasue we think they dont make us happy. so it is also our fate, to KNOW(experience/value which things makes us "happy". Or shoud i say, makes us as we want us to be.

What makes hannibal happy/unhapy?

what makes awen/the townfolk happy/unhappy?

why cant we combine it?

  1. it depends on what hannibal & awen (and all of their parts!) want! and thats exactly what a psychologist/doctor/healer must find out! this is hopefully also what god wants us to do. fullfill our dreams without hurting each other to much. Awen was not only a healer, he was also hannibals friend. So if hanibal wanted to make suicide, awen must find a solution for his or better said Hannibals ethical problem, of helping Hannibal/himself to fullfill his dream to be dead or fullfill his dream to be alive in a different way. as this is not a very easy task, it would be best to "analyze" hannibals wish to die. as this is the only way to find out, what is best for all an gods inention in the end.

  2. well, see at point 8. & all others. the problem depends on your moral standards u set for the people and if u give them their own morals. If u think, life is something that no sngle person can decide alone, then you have a resposnsibility to that law to keep the patient alive. even if he suffers and so on. but as u can see, this leads to pain and much more conflicts. specially if you cant/wont treat the pain.

If u think, one should decide for their own what is best for them, then u should help them to find the best solution for their wishes. if they want do die because of x, y or z, then its is just like it is.

if hannibal only wants a part of him to die, totally eliminated or transformed into somthing new, then we must figure out if this is possible!

yet again, it teaches us that we have to learn & solve all the different social expectations & conflicts & we life in an ambivalent world, where life and death - knowing & not knowing - are very close & that we are depending of different parts that all work for their own but also together. its not easy to make everybody happy or life healthy & a long life - but its possible in many many cases!

be aware of that dude!

ps very long work here, hope it helps

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