/r/philosophy Open Discussion Thread | December 12, 2022

Submitted by BernardJOrtcutt t3_zjzw2o in philosophy

Welcome to this week's Open Discussion Thread. This thread is a place for posts/comments which are related to philosophy but wouldn't necessarily meet our posting rules (especially posting rule 2). For example, these threads are great places for:

  • Arguments that aren't substantive enough to meet PR2.

  • Open discussion about philosophy, e.g. who your favourite philosopher is, what you are currently reading

  • Philosophical questions. Please note that /r/askphilosophy is a great resource for questions and if you are looking for moderated answers we suggest you ask there.

This thread is not a completely open discussion! Any posts not relating to philosophy will be removed. Please keep comments related to philosophy, and expect low-effort comments to be removed. All of our normal commenting rules are still in place for these threads, although we will be more lenient with regards to commenting rule 2.

Previous Open Discussion Threads can be found here.

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Willing_Wear1129 t1_j0rzs3w wrote

This discussion overlaps with "the walking dead" Reddit but I haven't found a discussion that clearly addresses the topic.
So for those of you who watched the show, you will remember the character "King Ezekiel." I believe it is a poem he resights before he goes into battle with the saviors. But the recurring theme is, "..and yet I smile."
I thought of Camus when I heard this. It was as if an entire kingdom had been condemned to certain demise or at least a "tragic" fate. Ezekiel and his followers choose to keep fighting, to keep smiling.
Is this not equivalent to Camus's idea of rebelling against a cold and indifferent world?
"Imagine Sysyphus happy?"

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alkane_lol t1_izy55fe wrote

Does there exist a theory that states that evolution and natural selection are not only biological phenomenons but properties of any system that results in change? Like I’m having a hard time wording it but is there work discussing how in a dynamic system where outcomes compete until the best outcome becomes the most likely outcome? The best examples I can think of are the market and technological development, where companies and technologies compete until the best or most successful ones become dominant. I’m interested in the metaphysical aspects and dynamic systems and the processes that underlie them.

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Important-Event-4898 t1_izyjulj wrote

Not sure if this helps but I remember Simone de Beauvoir saying that biology was not essential in explaining “woman”. Whilst that first part of the novel is pretty hard to read it’s possible that she discusses it. That being said are you trying to argue that natural selection can increase the probability of survival?

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alkane_lol t1_izyx9l9 wrote

No what Im trying to argue is that the idea of natural selection is not unique to the biological definition and can be generalized to all systems that are dynamic and create their own outcomes.

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Important-Event-4898 t1_izzcidz wrote

So sorta like - natural selection in the work place only the strongest get to high positions or something like that?

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Important-Event-4898 t1_izzcrie wrote

I don’t know if there are too many biology philosophers but you’d be best off looking at analytical philosophy and maybe philosophers who evaluate Charles Darwin. Hope this has helped

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GrandStudio t1_j05043n wrote

Daniel Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" covers this ground pretty thoroughly, arguing that evolution, science, and many human systems (progress in general) progress as negative selection mechanisms, weeding out failure rather than marching toward any particular end.

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ultravioletremrkable t1_j01hzg3 wrote

What are some real life situations where Kant's categorical imperative becomes unapplicable? Thank you

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Minute-Dig2654 t1_j08hjkc wrote

Freewill caused the downfall of humanity

   With a purpose and strong will one can move mountains and surpass all obstacles in life. Without a solid reason or inner knowing man crumbles at the realization of his own existence and begins to understand the grime reality that no matter what he acquires in the material whether that be fame, love or money he’ll never be able to lift the weight of his own mortality. Life is a wonderful gift with a nasty price…..death. All good things must come to an end and unfortunately if you’re reading this it’s too late to decline you’ve already accepted and must now embrace the harsh truth of knowing it’s all an illusion. We are like king midas except our golden touch was replaced with the curse of mortality and everything outside ourselves will eventually turn to dust and Unfortunately that’s the reality of life. 


The answer you’re looking for is simply life is irrational and the universe, god or whatever runs this place has no solid plan, has no reason, goal or task we just simply exist until we don’t and then it’s on to the next then the next then the next. Who knows how long we’ve been in this cycle. There is no justice your good deeds will go unrewarded and your bad deeds over looked. Shit just happens and that’s life. Proof? Look at jesus he was the model human being right and what was his fate oh yeah killed on the cross. thats proof being a team player only gets you killed. 



  Look at all the ppl who’ve ever been at the top and research how they got there. No where in history are the majority of leaders actually good ppl and most got to those ranks from lying, stealing or hell they just got lucky to be born in a family of that status. We all have that saint in our lives who’s done nothing but good in their life ofc they made mistakes but their good karma alone should’ve put them in a better predicament and we all know that old hag who’s been raising Cain since her first breath bringing nothing but more hell to an already hellish earth and yet she has her every want  handed to her on a silver plater by this god forsaken universe. 



 Bffr and get out of your moral compass. it means nothing and the world shows you that daily so if you’re gonna do something do it and have no regrets. Most new age spiritual groups love to say our ego aka our wants and desires blinds us from seeing reality and so once we stop wanting for anything thats when we'll receive everything It's contradicting bs but solitude allows you to see 3 ways to live life. One Believe there's something outside of you calling the shots and if you don't follow their rules you'll be punished and if you do you'll be blessed. Two you could live as a selfish fuck and go after everything you want and stop at nothing bc you're the creator of your own universe. It’s your movie and we’re all living in it so it doesn’t matter if the glass is half empty or half full all that matters is your perception and since you weren’t given a rule book to life you make your own rules and morals. This is a life I wish I could live but unfortunately I’m not talented and my hopes for thing’s getting better in life have died. the last way you could live is the mentally unstable route like moi and realize theres no point of starting anything of value bc its never gonna last so why put yourself through pain. To be or not be? I say most ppl would have to agree with my stance on not being bc like heart break once you feel the pain of betrayal no amount of love that person gave can ease the hurt they caused when they crossed you. Existence is a never ending video game where suffering will always be the main character which is why I choose to self destruct use anything to numb myself and currently My goal is to not be fazed by the bs life throws at me and to just keep swimming until my times up.  




 I'm tired of this emotional rollercoaster and if I don’t have a choice in the matter I want to at least be at peace. I can’t recommend my route either as im a hot mess as most of you can tell but what would remedy this would be will. unfortunately i wasn't blessed with the natural passion for life and the little hope I had is gone but if you have a talent or deep down you feel like you're meant to be doing something do it bc I wish I knew what I truly want. My dumbass still thinks there’s a little logic to the madness and when I have a little strength I spend my time trying to crack the code to this matrix so I can wake up from this terrible dream but I doubt that’s gonna happen for me anytime soon. But you yeah you. you’re here on earth I say if you have a dream do it make it worth dying for. pursue it with no regrets bc we’re all gonna die one day at least go out doing something you want. Yes jobs and life is a thing so ofc you can’t just drop everything and become a rockstar but that’s on you to figure out be happy you at least have some idea what you wanna do
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FriendofMolly t1_j0arek3 wrote

Didn’t even have to read what u wrote cuz I undertand and I’m too drunk to read but yes u are correct free will caused the downfall of humanity.

The illusion of free will that was created by mankind’s “ability” to see the pattern of “cause and effect” caused a more defined picture of the “self” to form and the idea that the source of your will comes from this thing called the “self”

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No-Meringue-7496 t1_j0o0rz3 wrote

On Consequentialist and Categorical Moral Thinking

These ways of thinking about morality are skewed. Morality is more than an objective truth. It's also about untruth. That is the trolley problem has no practical solution because you can not objectively reason your way to an answer as you do with a math problem. Thus what ends up happening is people unconsciously use bias to come to a solution. I think its a problem relating to risk communication more than anything.

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Interesting-Notice58 t1_izyy77m wrote

What is your life philosophy? What is your everyday motivation to keep going? (sorry if this question is too broad i am new to this subreddit)

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Important-Event-4898 t1_izzd780 wrote

I’d read some Eckart Tolle. His book “A new earth: awakening to your life’s purpose” is a thought provoking text that talks about how we should have a different purpose to “hedonism” or “power” and argues the importance of spirituality (I haven’t finished it and I am slightly skeptical but it’s pretty interesting)

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Interesting-Notice58 t1_j016itb wrote

Thanks i will get right into it. I am currently reading Meditations by Markus Aurelius what are your thoughts on it? And/or stoicism as a whole?

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Important-Event-4898 t1_j0wv526 wrote

I think stoicism a lot of value but is often misinterpreted by modern “sigmas” im not hugely educated on the topic tho. I personally try to be a virtuous person but I’m far from it with a long way to go. That aside I haven’t read Markus Aurelius this is just my surface level knowledge of the topic (which was discussed in a couple of classes that I didn’t really take notes in)

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FriendofMolly t1_j0asiem wrote

Within this binding of ever changing but formless infinity if this is heaven then half of everything else is hell and vice versa so who am I to try to put this reality and myself within it “in its place”.

What is the state your at when your asleep but not dreaming. I just call that peace and nothing more. A space in time free from intent, memory, a place without context.

Yet not just that a state where you are at the bare minimum of existing.

And somehow that bare minimum is the embodiment of tranquility and bliss.

So much so that a person is at their most bitter the moments after being awoken from a really deep sleep.

Hence with me knowing that bliss is my underlying state why would I let the bleak “logistics” of the world of the “awake” take me away from what I attain every night and better yet why would I let those “logistics” blind me from that feelings while I’m awake also.

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OmgStfuDude t1_izzdrlq wrote

Interested in researching more about the Argument from Evil. Specifically, more responses to it (other than soul building and free will theodicies). Edited to add: Looking for recommendations on where to look for such responses.

And if there were to be a big “breakthrough”—for lack of a better term—in philosophy conversations, how would we go about learning about it? How do you determine who the great philosophers of our time are (like who is our Descartes/Plato/any other old philosopher) ?

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DirtyOldPanties t1_j02mqdx wrote

Great by what standard? I would think the greatest philosophers are the ones who offer something profoundly true. However there are many philosophers who are incredibly successful (despite being wrong), so by that standard they could be considered great for their influence.

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OmgStfuDude t1_j02owoz wrote

When I say “great” I mean the ones who have offered something that is still being argued.

Elliot Sober, he’s the author of the textbook I had to use for my intro class. Really like his writing style, but I just don’t see him as a great philosopher. I’ve seen him cited a few times across different papers I’ve found, but I wouldn’t group him into a category with Descartes/Hume/Plato— these are people we still talk about, because they had something “big” enough to say.

Does that help clear it up?

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FriendofMolly t1_j0arr9l wrote

For me the ones that are great are the ones who have stood the test in time and who’s argument can still be held up as logically sound even after all the knowledge we have gained over the passage of time.

Or in shorter terms the philosophers I see as “great” are the ones who’s wisdom still sits higher than any “knowledge” you hold up next to it.

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DirtyOldPanties t1_j02mvl1 wrote

If democracy is so great why don't subreddits practice it and allow their moderation team to be voted in? 🤔

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[deleted] t1_j054k7a wrote

[removed]

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ephemerios t1_j06dpsa wrote

> Lol, the mods here aren't decent people.

You managed to make that judgment in 15 hours?

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FriendofMolly t1_j0atebp wrote

What makes the light that enters your eye and the air that enters your ears that of which paints your experience,

Any less of you than the eyes and ears that see and hear…

Second one is a problem not a question but it poses a question.

Try to define a moment before that moment has transferred to the next and if that has happened try to define that moment to yourself or how many moments have passed since the last.

And if you can’t do that and depending on how you answered the first question if all “you” are is one of those or many of those “moments l in time yet your eyes, ears and other faculties do not define you.

Then what and who are you and does a you even exist or is it just as intangible as that moment you tried ti define…

Sorry if I invoked any existential crisis’ but this is a philosophy sub y’all should be able to handle it.

Sorry if some of the grammar is there makes no sense in half asleep and bored Lmao

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choochootrainyippee t1_j0eisfr wrote

There is a "peak fitness philosophy" that someone explained to me. The idea is that you are fit enough to be able to either kill anyone in a fight, or run away from them. If you can do that, you are essentially at "peak fitness." I was wondering if anyone here knew who the original author of this philosophy is, or where I can find more information about it?

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AtomikRadio t1_j0i4ncu wrote

Does anyone happen to have any sources (academic or popular media) that they would recommend on the philosophy surrounding the abstract concept of "health" or "being healthy"? I have read The Republic (justice) and Symposium (love) and love these efforts (esp as a Socratic dialogue form) to investigate these abstract concepts, and the more I reflect I feel "health" is a similar thing: Something we all are familiar with/"know what it is" but is actually hard to truly pin down.

I would love to read things interrogating this if anyone has recommendations.

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Important-Event-4898 t1_j1122ja wrote

I’ve heard that Nietzsche (who is often misquoted so I might be wrong here) said “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” so the pain you feel at the gym is only the pain that will make you stronger in the future. I don’t know if I’m doing Nietzsche justice but have a look into his stuff if you’re interested in the philosophy of leading a healthy life

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breadandbuttercreek t1_j0il2b7 wrote

I was just reading about the probabilistic nature of the ChatGPT computer program. It uses enormous quantities of data to synthesise language, basically just taking apart millions of documents and reassembling them make new logical language. This shows how consciousness and the brain's prediction and decision making systems work - the brain isn't computing new activity to make decisions, just analysing troves of data stored in neural networks, chemical systems and DNA and applying the analysis to new situations. The difference is that our consciousness allows us to use our internal voice to "step back" and make considered judgements about possible actions, up to a point, rather than just following chains of logic the way a computer does.

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No_Hunter_idkidc365 t1_j0sdwzh wrote

Charles Darwin was too scared to release his theory of evolution as it would be strongly opposed by the religious as it contradicts the book of Genesis; added his wife was a strong Catholic. This was a time where many theories such as these came to light and opposed the scriptures. The same way the scriptures were ridiculed by those who ruled a nation the times before and proclaimed themselves as the ultimate being, and early humans fighting amongst themselves to take a lead position and rule others, the first early nuclear family fighting over what role they should play to protect themselves from dying because of hunger or being prey to other animals or climate.

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Complex-Awareness-85 t1_j0sy2hb wrote

Does this mean something to anyone?

I have no absolute control in what you see, I have no absolute control in what surrounds you, I have no absolute control over your thoughts, I have no absolute control over your feelings, absolute control over your experience is a guise.

I have no absolute control in what I see, I have no absolute control in what surrounds me, I have no absolute control over my thoughts, I have no absolute control over my feelings, absolute control over my experience is a guise.

My actions can influence what you see, my actions can influence what surrounds you, my actions can influence what you think, my actions can influence what you feel, my actions can influence your experience.

My actions Influence what I see, my actions influence what surrounds me, my actions influence what I think, my actions influence what I feel, my actions influence my experience.

You have no absolute control in what I see, you have no absolute control in what surrounds me, you have no absolute control over what I think, you have no absolute control over what I feel, absolute control over my experience is a guise.

You have no absolute control in what you see, you have no absolute control in what surrounds you, you have no absolute control over what you think, you have no absolute control over what you feel, absolute control over your experience is a guise.

Your actions influence what you see, your actions influence what surrounds you, your actions influence what you think, your actions influence what you feel, your actions influence your experience.

Your actions can influence what I see, your actions can influence what surrounds me, your actions can influence what I think, your actions can influence what I feel, your actions can influence my experience.

No Absolute control of perspective, no Absolute control of surrounding's, no Absolute control of thoughts, no Absolute control of feelings, no Absolute control.

Actions influence perspective, actions influence surrounding's, actions influence thoughts, actions influence feelings, experiencing Actions influence.

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