IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0ictqm wrote
Reply to comment by IAI_Admin in The good/ binary in morality is misguided and can be dangerous | Tommy Curry, Massimo Pigliucci, Joanna Kavenna by IAI_Admin
> They are also pernicious because they encourage us to think of ourselves as good and write off our opposition as evil, prompting us to act in a way that is uncharitable and uncaring.
I mean, if someone is a murderous nazi and you're a POC I think it's perfectly OK to write off the nazi as "evil" because he wants to commit horrific actions, like murder against you. That's how we protect ourselves from an evolutionary perspective. We avoid the things and people who hate us and want to hurt us. A cheetah is probably considered evil to a gazelle after all, even if the cheetah doesn't see a problem ending the gazelles life (because he's a cheetah and that's what they do). Similarly, a nazi doesn't see a problem murdering a black person, because that's what nazis do. I think labeling that nazi as "evil" is literally protecting the POCs life and the nazi isn't harmed by the POC thinking they're "evil".
Do you disagree?
iiioiia t1_j0l6j8z wrote
I disagree in that people on the internet have well proven how bad humans are at accurately identifying Nazis - I've seen many claims that ~50% of the population are Nazis.
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0lub5v wrote
"People on the internet" is an irrelevant red herring and completely unrelated to my point.
iiioiia t1_j0lw370 wrote
I believe it is relevant, because of this:
>> I mean, if someone is a murderous nazi and you're a POC I think it's perfectly OK to write off the nazi as "evil" because he wants to commit horrific actions, like murder against you.
Humans have well demonstrated that they use the word "is" in ways that are contrary to its technical meaning.
For example:
> "People on the internet" is an irrelevant red herring and [is] completely unrelated to my point.
Here you are describing how this appears to you, seemingly unaware that it may appear otherwise to other people, and that how it appears may be different than how it actually is.
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0lyu6c wrote
Well, I was talking about a neo nazi that literally wants to murder someone.
That's a way different idea than "u killed me in fortnite u nazi".
It literally isn't what I'm talking about. I am not talking about random kids on fortnite labeling people as nazis. I'm talking about ACTUAL, SELF-DECLARED neo nazis who want to murder people, like these ones: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/06/590292705/5-killings-3-states-and-1-common-neo-nazi-link
Im talking about these kinds of people and as a POC I am perfectly right to fear these people. Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't fear a neo nazi like the ones here in this article and call these people "evil"?
iiioiia t1_j0lzhj9 wrote
> Well, I was talking about a neo nazi that literally wants to murder someone.
Right, but the difference between thought experiments and reality is that in a thought experiment, one's declarations of truth are assumed to be true (which is ok, because the space is purely virtual*), whereas in reality people's declarations of truth are not necessarily true, though they are often perceived as such.
> It literally isn't what I'm talking about. I am not talking about random kids on fortnite labeling people as nazis. I'm talking about ACTUAL, SELF-DECLARED neo nazis who want to murder people, like these ones: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/06/590292705/5-killings-3-states-and-1-common-neo-nazi-link
In that minority case, fine, but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it, or not even exhibited any characteristics of it. Basically, I am referring to human delusion and silliness, which often has very serious consequences.
> Im talking about these kinds of people and as a POC I am perfectly right to fear these people. Are you trying to tell me I shouldn't fear a neo nazi like the ones here in this article and call these people "evil"?
Let's see how you react to what I have written here.
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0lzpf0 wrote
> but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it
Red herring.
But I'm glad you agree with me:
> In that minority case, fine
So since you have nothing to add to this discussion, I think we're done here.
iiioiia t1_j0m0bcq wrote
>> but I am talking about the much more plentiful situation where people are accused of being Nazis despite not having admitted it > > > > Red herring.
Red herring: a clue or piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or distracting.
I disagree. The phenomenon I've mentioned does in fact exist, and is related.
> But I'm glad you agree with me
Only on a subset of the whole though.
> So since you have nothing to add to this discussion, I think we're done here.
I am going to report your comment to the mods on this basis:
> > > > Argue your Position > >> Opinions are not valuable here, arguments are! Comments that solely express musings, opinions, beliefs, or assertions without argument may be removed. >
> Be Respectful > >> Comments which blatantly do not contribute to the discussion may be removed, particularly if they consist of personal attacks. Users with a history of such comments may be banned. Slurs, racism, and bigotry are absolutely not permitted. >
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0m320o wrote
> The phenomenon I've mentioned
Is irrelevant to the point I am making about ACTUAL neo nazis dude. You're trying to talk about "people on the internet".
Stop trying to change the subject. We're not talking about "people on the internet don't label nazis right". This is about whether certain actions can be declared as "evil" and what that means.
iiioiia t1_j0m3za3 wrote
> Is irrelevant to the point I am making about ACTUAL neo nazis dude.
I have explicitly acknowledged that I agree with you in that regard.
However, it is true that there are many claims that certain people or groups of people "are" Nazis, where the accused has made no confession or exhibited behavior.
You are not obligated to discuss this, but I think it is interesting that you are saying it is not in any way relevant.
> You're trying to talk about "people on the internet".
I am talking (not just trying) to talk about a very specific subset of people.
> Stop trying to change the subject.
The subject of this subthread is a function of the ideas that have been raised. If you do not desire to discuss the aspect I have noted, you are more than welcome to disengage from the conversation.
> We're not talking about "people on the internet don't label nazis right". This is about whether certain actions can be declared as "evil" and what that means.
I have injected it into the conversation, and I have asked for your thoughts on the matter.
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0m42v2 wrote
> I have explicitly acknowledged that I agree with you in that regard.
Then we're done here I have zero interest in your red herring. Have a good day.
> I have injected it into the conversation,
Yeah I don't care.
iiioiia t1_j0m456k wrote
This demonstration satisfies me, thank you.
IOnlyUseTheCommWheel t1_j0m5o2n wrote
> I have injected it into the conversation
A little tip: this is what a red herring is. A discussion is about one thing and you "inject" the red herring into the pile of fish to distract from the other fish. That's why it's red.
iiioiia t1_j0m7fjv wrote
What I injected is directly related to the topic of discussion: "Nazis" (or so-called Nazis).
You are welcome to act as if this has no relevance whatsoever, and I am welcome to point out that you are incorrect. To me, this is satisfying as it physically documents the nature of the mind in a way that can be ingested at a future date. However, further replies also increases the potential value, so I encourage it.
kouteki t1_j0krd4w wrote
Interesting example. A US POC flags a WW2 nazi as evil, even tho nazism didn't explicitly target POC (unlike Jews, Roma and Slavs). According to the debate, this automatically makes the opponents of nazis good. That forces the US POC to root for a camp that is still actively lynching, segregating and in many ways targetting the POC.
A great practical example is Jessie Owens, who by all accounts was significantly better treated at the Olympics by Germans, then by his own country.
[deleted] t1_j0luh8e wrote
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