anonymousbabydragon t1_j1w53d3 wrote on December 27, 2022 at 9:10 PM

My brother is minoring in philosophy at BYU so we’ve had a couple of discussions about different things. He believes that everyone should adopt an altruistic mindset at all times because that is the only path to true happiness. Arguing that it isn’t necessary to think of yourself and by thinking of others you will have a joy and fulfillment that you can’t get elsewhere.

I disagree with that view point because there are negative consequences with that line of thinking and because fulfillment/joy can be achieved without that mindset. I think it isn’t necessary to frame your life through what value you provide others because society doesn’t need you to self sacrifice to survive. Most people want belonging and to be a valued member of a group so they will act for the good of the group by virtue of their place in it. By thinking of yourself as an actor in others lives you rob yourself of a more stable foundation. I think in order to be part of a group you must be an individual first.

I’m curious what others thoughts are on the topic.

SinsidiousNME t1_j1xvzzt wrote on December 28, 2022 at 5:06 AM

I agree with you in the sense that you cannot help and make a difference in other people without first making a difference in yourself, but why would you be creating change in yourself in the first place if not only to improve the lives of those around you. Are you not being altruistic towards the people you spend time with or interact daily with if you are trying to better yourself? Wouldn't the idea of being individual only exist because groups exist.

anonymousbabydragon t1_j1y0evx wrote on December 28, 2022 at 5:51 AM

See that’s a good point, but I feel like that’s more a way to justify being self centered at times. Because to me your actions aren’t altruistic just because the intention is there. You’re delaying an altruistic action until you are able to cash in on it. There’s also the chance you never fulfill that intention. I may also just be misunderstanding things because I only have a basic understanding of philosophy.

SinsidiousNME t1_j1y2rfo wrote on December 28, 2022 at 6:16 AM

To be altruistic is to be intentional, no matter what altruistic action your doing you still have motivation. So selfishness is purely an opinion of other people as everyone is motivated internally and everyone carry’s out actions because they chose to. Selfish- lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

anonymousbabydragon t1_j2b67cl wrote on December 30, 2022 at 11:27 PM

I guess where I sort of have issues with isn’t that someone’s doing something selfless. I think that’s great it’s more that I don’t believe in a mindset that means trying to never think of yourself. It goes back to the individual being part of a group part I mentioned earlier. If you never learn what you want and what makes you motivated I think you will fail at being someone that has the foundation and confidence to succeed within a group. I don’t think the self is evil. I think most of us are born good and with good intentions for our community. We are instead taught how to act and feel. In saying we need to forget ourselves we’re implying that we are somehow bad or wrong. That is not true. We are good and if we are believed in by ourselves we can arguably accomplish more altruistic things then someone who thinks it’s necessary to forget oneself. Why can’t we be both caring about others and ourselves? Why do we have to distinguish one as being more worthy of our love and attention?

SinsidiousNME t1_j2c0p56 wrote on December 31, 2022 at 3:13 AM

I don’t disagree with the point about distinguishing between one being more worth of love but individuality is really only existent because of group thought. Everything you have ever learned was a linguistic depiction of reality or events told by someone else. There is one human knowledge that is constantly growing that you can choose to learn from and eventually build up on if you focus on a field of study and make some discovery. I believe in subjective morality and that it is ultimately learned unless genetic conditions. Although it’s utterly impossible to have a definitive answer on morality at all in my opinion